I love the bull30548 idea...

That always going on the offense is not the jedi way.... we use the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack.

So always using those special Talents to decimate the opposition could/should earn the player Conflict, especially if he doesn't try other solutions first.

The Jedi as depicted in the prequels and in the Clone Wars series sure don't seem that reluctant to cut things down...

And when you style yourselves as protectors, there's obviously something out there you're going to have to protect against... the Jedi put themselves between aggressors and the would-be victims, they carry weapons, they train for combat... to the pretend that combat is "not your way" and draw some artificial distinction between that and "aggression" is an example of the finest sort of double-think and self-deception.

I understand what you are saying, and I completely agree with you about the Narrative in the game, but I feel that you're asking the Jedi to gimp himself because of the name of the talent.

Anyway, I understand how you see it, I feel the opposite.

I think we can agree to disagree. By the way, I'm not gimping force users, I'm preventing them from becoming OP. With a Force Rating of 3-4, combined with proper leveling of Willpower and the Lightsaber skill. You have hands down the best attacker and one of the hardest hitters in the game. All from a style not known for a strong attack. Heaven forbid you ever get a character with a FR of 5 or higher. You'll instantly break the game.

The Jedi as depicted in the prequels and in the Clone Wars series sure don't seem that reluctant to cut things down...

And when you style yourselves as protectors, there's obviously something out there you're going to have to protect against... the Jedi put themselves between aggressors and the would-be victims, they carry weapons, they train for combat... to the pretend that combat is "not your way" and draw some artificial distinction between that and "aggression" is an example of the finest sort of double-think and self-deception.

Cutting down droids left and right is different than cutting down living beings, and that is what we mostly saw was jedi cutting down Droids.

In other instances, they avoided it when they could, but when dozens of FLying buy people are trying to kill you and your friends... there are going to be a few casualties. Though the Majority I saw were either force pushed/knocked out or had a blaster shot reflected into them which didn't neccessarily mean they were killed.

Anikin on the other hand did Kill a few of those flying bugs... but then he had just recently come from slaying a whole tribe of Tuskan raiders, children and all, and was on his way to the darkside of the end justifies the means. So we can hardly hold up his example as being typical.

So here is a question with the two lightsaber thing: What is a good crystal handle set for this style? Personally I was thinking a main lightsaber now and just a simple shoto. However, I think I would put the Lorridian in my regular blade since that would often be my primary blade and I was wondering if the crystal mods stack with a curved hilt defensive mod? I think this was answered as a no but thought I would ask instead of slugging through the posts. And since I am playing in a different Era than Rebellion I was thinking a Mephite for the shoto. The reason for this is the disorient and concussive quality plus lower damage from the weapon may mean I can merely get my opponents to surrender rather than kill them out right. In those cases my shoto would be my primary. Now when I know I have no choice but kill or be killed I would have both and I was thinking the other mod would be paired for both (filling the shoto) since I am under the understanding I have to be using both to benefit from the mod itself. For those wondering the Dantari crystal I was going to give to my compatriot since he will be using force powers/talents that will put him under more strain.

I haven't considered crystals, but I prefer primary being a shoto. The added Boost die allows for a greater chance for 2 advantage to activate the second attack.

I have a question (That is probably going to end up being a really easy answer)...I haven't seen a reason not to yet, but why wouldn't you use the Pairing attachment for two lightsabers? Everyone keeps referring to needing 2 advantage to activate the second weapon, wouldn't this make it worth it?

I understand what you are saying, and I completely agree with you about the Narrative in the game, but I feel that you're asking the Jedi to gimp himself because of the name of the talent.

Anyway, I understand how you see it, I feel the opposite.

I think we can agree to disagree. By the way, I'm not gimping force users, I'm preventing them from becoming OP. With a Force Rating of 3-4, combined with proper leveling of Willpower and the Lightsaber skill. You have hands down the best attacker and one of the hardest hitters in the game. All from a style not known for a strong attack. Heaven forbid you ever get a character with a FR of 5 or higher. You'll instantly break the game.

Sincere question - by the time a "Niman Disciple" gets to FR 3-4 and pumped up Willpower and Lightsaber (and who knows what Force Powers) the Maurader or blaster rifle focused combat character won't be doing as well if not better combat wise?

Same for FR 5+ (which means at a minimum going deep into Sage AND Seer)?

So here is a question with the two lightsaber thing: What is a good crystal handle set for this style? Personally I was thinking a main lightsaber now and just a simple shoto. However, I think I would put the Lorridian in my regular blade since that would often be my primary blade and I was wondering if the crystal mods stack with a curved hilt defensive mod? I think this was answered as a no but thought I would ask instead of slugging through the posts. And since I am playing in a different Era than Rebellion I was thinking a Mephite for the shoto. The reason for this is the disorient and concussive quality plus lower damage from the weapon may mean I can merely get my opponents to surrender rather than kill them out right. In those cases my shoto would be my primary. Now when I know I have no choice but kill or be killed I would have both and I was thinking the other mod would be paired for both (filling the shoto) since I am under the understanding I have to be using both to benefit from the mod itself. For those wondering the Dantari crystal I was going to give to my compatriot since he will be using force powers/talents that will put him under more strain.

The problem I'm finding is the Shoto only has 3 HP. Meaning, you can only add a crystal + one attachment. While you could add Superior and have that bonus blue die, the basic lightsaber has 5 HP so you can add a crystal + superior + paired to automatically get the two advantage you need and still have one HP leftover.

This of course goes out the window if you roll a triumph when you craft your own lightsaber.

Sincere question - by the time a "Niman Disciple" gets to FR 3-4 and pumped up Willpower and Lightsaber (and who knows what Force Powers) the Maurader or blaster rifle focused combat character won't be doing as well if not better combat wise?

Same for FR 5+ (which means at a minimum going deep into Sage AND Seer)?

It's a fair question, and it would take a bit of time to breakdown everything. So I'm going to stick with my primary concern for unrestricted use of Draw Closer. As for blaster rifles, are we including Light Repeating Blasters in the blaster rifle category? Because most people already admit that a Heavy specialization with a LRB is game breaking! In this regards to a Marauder, yes a Niman has a fairly significant advantage in combat. With Draw Closer, they can pull people to melee range. The Marauder has no way to close on an opponent other then the standard move mechanics.

Consider that Draw Closer with a FR 3 could add up to 6 bonus successes. These aren't even taking into account the attackers Lightsaber combat check. That's a terrifying level of successes that will climb even higher if the attacker spent some time improving the Lightsaber skill. Now you aren't always going to get 6 successes, but the chance is decent that you'll get 2-3 successes on average (still not insignificant). Don't forget that even if the 3 Force Die came up with dark-side force points, you can still flip a Destiny Point and take some Strain/Conflict and still walk away with several bonus successes. All this is on top of your actual Lightsaber/Willpower combat check. Add in the lightsabers impressive capabilities (Breach, high damage, low crit rating) and you have a setup that could give a Light Repeating Blaster user a serious challenge vs single targets. All of this is based around a single unrestricted Talent. No other specialization boasts a single Talent that can close melee distance from Medium range and give such significant attack and damage bonuses that scale upward at this rate. Oh, and it does all this for no cost to Strain, Health, etc.

I'm not saying put heavy restrictions on it. If you're playing low level games, it probably doesn't need any restrictions. My point is that if you start getting Force Ratings of 3+, it becomes an especially game-changing (even game-breaking IMO) Talent!

With out looking at the whole character and the rest of the party with similar XP levels you can't really claim draw closer is game breaking...

EDIT: I'm editing this as we've gotten side-tracked from the OPs original focus on dual-wielding lightsabers. So we should probably move this discussion to a different thread, or we can move on to other more productive debates. We each have our opinions and I'm not saying anyone else is wrong. Only that I have some serious concern about a few specific Talents in terms of both mathematical mechanics, and how often such abilities were performed in the SW universe.

Gander at version 3 .

Differences:

• Nixed a rank of Parry in favor of Parry (Improved). Block with one sword, riposte with the other. Narratively speaking.
• Nixed a rank of Rapid Reaction and Reflect for 2 ranks of Side Step.
• Swapped Defensive Stance for Defensive Training, which I think was my intention in the first place.
• Nixed Saber Throw in favor of Balance.
• Swapped Cool for Athletics.

Gunslinger, by the way, has a selection of talents (Rapid Reaction, Quick Strike, Lethal Blows, Sorry About the Mess, Deadly Accuracy) that makes for one glorious cocktail of instant critical, if not instant death, even without Guns Blazing/Spitfire, not to mention an increased range (with the right guns, medium, possibly even long).

Also, comparing it, those two talents I whipped up, combined, do pretty much the same as Sarlacc Sweep, just slightly differently. You wouldn't have to increase difficulty, true, but you'd only ever hit two engaged foes, whereas Sarlacc Sweep can hit as many engaged foes as you have the Advantage for.