We already have a tree for dual-wielding: Gunslinger. It didn't add rules for dual wielding, it simply aided them. Thus, there's precedent for them do so with twin 'sabers. Jar'Kai seems a logical option to go with, and they could frame it as the blanket term for dual-wielding lightsabers; Weapon Master isn't unlikely... but if it's built to utilize melee and brawl weapons on par with lightsabers, it'd probably dedicate talents to that instead.

We already have a tree for dual-wielding: Gunslinger. It didn't add rules for dual wielding, it simply aided them. Thus, there's precedent for them do so with twin 'sabers. Jar'Kai seems a logical option to go with, and they could frame it as the blanket term for dual-wielding lightsabers; Weapon Master isn't unlikely... but if it's built to utilize melee and brawl weapons on par with lightsabers, it'd probably dedicate talents to that instead.

I agree. And it would be very easy to cannibalize Gunslinger to make a JarKai tree if you wanted.

The first 2 levels of Gunslinger would not need to be changed. Though you could swap lethal blows for a parry and grit for a reflect.

Row 3 Swap toughened for parry. swap dodge for reflect.

row 4 Swap lethal blows for parry. rejigger guns blazing to work for reducing lightsaber check

Row 5 rejigger spitfire for lightsaber swap natural marksmen for natural lightsaber duelist.

I think that would be a decent JarKai tree.

Something like this ? I made a few other changes than what is described by Daeglan above (replaced Confidence with Conditioned, replaced Call 'Em and Sorry About the Mess with Reflect, replaced Dodge with Reflect (Improved) instead, and replaced Deadly Accuracy with Parry (Improved)), and it has career skills -- If this were to be made into a universal specializations, I'd remove them. I made the two Jar'Kai talents Lightsaber weapons compliant only and made them into Force talents as well, but it could be tweaked into a Force-free Melee spec. It's also just a Word document, not a pretty talent tree.

After thinking a bit about it, I made a second version .

After thinking a bit about it, I made a second version .

I would drop both improved reflect and improved parry. These make this form a why would I not take this lightsaber form. Nothing in Jar Kai makes it sound like they would have either of these. at best just another rank of either parry or reflect. I would leave deadly accuracy.

After thinking a bit about it, I made a second version .

I would drop both improved reflect and improved parry. These make this form a why would I not take this lightsaber form. Nothing in Jar Kai makes it sound like they would have either of these. at best just another rank of either parry or reflect. I would leave deadly accuracy.

Check version 2 (scroll down a bit). I removed Deadly Accuracy because it's a really good talent, and none of the current Lightsaber specs have it, so I would keep it away for now.

yes but you kept both improved parry and improved reflect. Most lightsaber forms have neither. a couple have one of them. only one form has both and that form is the super defensive form. So I would drop both improved reflect and improved parry. Too much awesome in one form. Deadly accuracy would be better than having both improved reflect and improved parry.

No, no, no. The second link I have has two versions of the spec. Version one has the Improved, while the second version drops them in favor of something. Scroll down on the link.

EDIT: Here, try this one .

That one is much better.

I'm not opposed to a Jar'Kai specialization, but I think we need to be careful not to unbalance the game. Gunslinger allowed a PC to take sub-par damage pistols and compete with PCs running around with heavy rifles. So there was a need for Gunslinger to even out pistol damage. All lightsabers have comparable damage, so there's no actual need to develop a specialization to buff dual wielding. I don't think any of us want to see Jar'Kai become another Heavy spec with a Light Repeating Blaster! Also, many of the very greatest lightsaber combatants were single saber wielders.

This is why I would prefer to see a Weaponmaster specialization. It could be split into roughly 3 focusing branches. You could have talents to ease the dual-wield penalties for Jar'Kai users, and single saber mastery talents. The third leg (roughly the middle 2 rows) could be neutral talents like an extra Parry and/or Reflect. I'd also like to see Improved Parry and Improved Reflect in this section. To help round-out those specs that didn't get them, but would likely develop the abilities as they reach mastery of saber combat.

Just my 2 cents though.

I'm not opposed to a Jar'Kai specialization, but I think we need to be careful not to unbalance the game. Gunslinger allowed a PC to take sub-par damage pistols and compete with PCs running around with heavy rifles. So there was a need for Gunslinger to even out pistol damage. All lightsabers have comparable damage, so there's no actual need to develop a specialization to buff dual wielding. I don't think any of us want to see Jar'Kai become another Heavy spec with a Light Repeating Blaster! Also, many of the very greatest lightsaber combatants were single saber wielders.

This is why I would prefer to see a Weaponmaster specialization. It could be split into roughly 3 focusing branches. You could have talents to ease the dual-wield penalties for Jar'Kai users, and single saber mastery talents. The third leg (roughly the middle 2 rows) could be neutral talents like an extra Parry and/or Reflect. I'd also like to see Improved Parry and Improved Reflect in this section. To help round-out those specs that didn't get them, but would likely develop the abilities as they reach mastery of saber combat.

Just my 2 cents though.

They only have engaged range. And Hitting multiple targets is a 25 point talent that is only useful if you are engaged with multiple targets.

I think a Dual wielding light saber style would very easily become an OP ability if not carefully considered, Much like how some people feel about the gunslingers ability.

I think those styles that would improve Dual wielding would be better placed as Signature talent trees for specific Careers, Such as the Warrior. This is where I would put Vapaad and Jar'kai.

"If one sword has a power of 100, then using two swords would make it 200, right?" -- Lloyd Irvine.

Yes, being deadly would be the point.

I'm not opposed to a Jar'Kai specialization, but I think we need to be careful not to unbalance the game. Gunslinger allowed a PC to take sub-par damage pistols and compete with PCs running around with heavy rifles. So there was a need for Gunslinger to even out pistol damage. All lightsabers have comparable damage, so there's no actual need to develop a specialization to buff dual wielding. I don't think any of us want to see Jar'Kai become another Heavy spec with a Light Repeating Blaster! Also, many of the very greatest lightsaber combatants were single saber wielders.

This is why I would prefer to see a Weaponmaster specialization. It could be split into roughly 3 focusing branches. You could have talents to ease the dual-wield penalties for Jar'Kai users, and single saber mastery talents. The third leg (roughly the middle 2 rows) could be neutral talents like an extra Parry and/or Reflect. I'd also like to see Improved Parry and Improved Reflect in this section. To help round-out those specs that didn't get them, but would likely develop the abilities as they reach mastery of saber combat.

Just my 2 cents though.

They only have engaged range. And Hitting multiple targets is a 25 point talent that is only useful if you are engaged with multiple targets.

True, but you also have Breach bypassing soak, and a very respectable base damage and average crit ratings of 2-3. So you have less range, but greater damage potential. This would be a fair trade if you didn't have things like Reflect and Parry to dramatically reduce damage already. To say nothing of other saber specialization abilities and Improved Reflect/Parry.

I think Two Weapon Combat is plenty good at representing two lightsabres already.

It is a decent and pretty well balanced mechanic to allow for increased Damage potential

You have a better opportunity to do more Damage as you gain Ranks in your lightsabre Skill wich adequately represents the extra Skill needed to effectively use two weapons.

You gain any Passive effects just by holding a second lightsabre.
It doesn't keep you from using Talents from any of the sabre fighting Trees and describing them as the effect of two sabres.

Basically until some new RAW comes out or someone can give me a good reason for it I'm happy to leave things as they are.

I think a Dual wielding light saber style would very easily become an OP ability if not carefully considered, Much like how some people feel about the gunslingers ability.

I think those styles that would improve Dual wielding would be better placed as Signature talent trees for specific Careers, Such as the Warrior. This is where I would put Vapaad and Jar'kai.

Jury Rig and a Heavy repeating blaster rifle is much more broken and cheaper to get then any kind of lightsaber tree would be.

I hate to say it but most of the broken quality of the gunslinger tree comes from Sorry about the mess then anything else.

I think a Dual wielding light saber style would very easily become an OP ability if not carefully considered, Much like how some people feel about the gunslingers ability.

I think those styles that would improve Dual wielding would be better placed as Signature talent trees for specific Careers, Such as the Warrior. This is where I would put Vapaad and Jar'kai.

Jury Rig and a Heavy repeating blaster rifle is much more broken and cheaper to get then any kind of lightsaber tree would be.

I hate to say it but most of the broken quality of the gunslinger tree comes from Sorry about the mess then anything else.

Sorry about the mess? I am not sure if your referencing the end result of using that or something else?

I think two weapon sabers wouldn't be over powered. If someone is constantly using two sabers and doing 20 plus damage and force sensitive they would eventually have some morality issues which if this system is played right and the gaming group are role players and not just dice rollers would limit how often someone is wanting to use the ability. Many of the Jedi wielding two sabers aren't doing it in every fight. Usually they do it when fighting a superior enemy or multiple enemies.

I put together a Nimian Disciple with Draw Closer who dual wields. either my purples roll failures and I get advantage to dual wield, with Draw closer adding successes, or they roll disadvantages, and my first hit becomes very strong.

Honestly Ataru's Hawkbat swoop is better since it gives advantages to activate the off hand attacks easier.

After thinking a bit about it, I made a second version .

I would drop both improved reflect and improved parry. These make this form a why would I not take this lightsaber form. Nothing in Jar Kai makes it sound like they would have either of these. at best just another rank of either parry or reflect. I would leave deadly accuracy.

Check version 2 (scroll down a bit). I removed Deadly Accuracy because it's a really good talent, and none of the current Lightsaber specs have it, so I would keep it away for now.

I personally would keep the Jar'Kai talent but not give a version like spitfire. The Jar'Kai talent gives two weapon sabers what they need, but without the spitfire version which would make those op worries. Personally would keep improved parry and reflect instead

After thinking a bit about it, I made a second version .

I would drop both improved reflect and improved parry. These make this form a why would I not take this lightsaber form. Nothing in Jar Kai makes it sound like they would have either of these. at best just another rank of either parry or reflect. I would leave deadly accuracy.

Check version 2 (scroll down a bit). I removed Deadly Accuracy because it's a really good talent, and none of the current Lightsaber specs have it, so I would keep it away for now.

I personally would keep the Jar'Kai talent but not give a version like spitfire. The Jar'Kai talent gives two weapon sabers what they need, but without the spitfire version which would make those op worries. Personally would keep improved parry and reflect instead

Why are you worried about a engaged version of spitfire?

Because he is concerned that being able to hit a person multiple times in a row is somehow game breaking when each hit in engaged range takes 2 advantages. As opposed to critting on 1 multiple times in a row.

Honestly Ataru's Hawkbat swoop is better since it gives advantages to activate the off hand attacks easier.

Honestly, I wish they had named it something else.

Because he is concerned that being able to hit a person multiple times in a row is somehow game breaking when each hit in engaged range takes 2 advantages. As opposed to critting on 1 multiple times in a row.

Each hit with spit fire at range is 2 adv. And you can already hit the same person multiple times with 2 Weapon fighting. Spit fire lets you hit a different target.