Because general rules are better than special rules.
The pass rule changed the activation count problem and much of the Officers problem with a small general rule change. And it is good.
So to limit the selection of royal guards you're okay limiting all unit selection rather than just the one that needs to be changed. That just seems backwards.
I just don't think we (meaning those in favor of the limit 2) see that as any real limitation. Especially not a limitation on creativity. Funnily, if you listen to what Lukas or Damon says on Netrunner, limitations breed creativity - hence the limit on 'out of faction' cards. We do have that limit here as well, though I think in time the Alliance cards will fade away. Having a limit forces you to think beyond just packing as many of the best units and be done with it. 4x4 is in essence just that, packing the max of the best and those happened to have enormous synergy.
I just don't think we (meaning those in favor of the limit 2) see that as any real limitation. Especially not a limitation on creativity. Funnily, if you listen to what Lukas or Damon says on Netrunner, limitations breed creativity - hence the limit on 'out of faction' cards. We do have that limit here as well, though I think in time the Alliance cards will fade away. Having a limit forces you to think beyond just packing as many of the best units and be done with it. 4x4 is in essence just that, packing the max of the best and those happened to have enormous synergy.
We already have this limitation in creativity with factions and cards that let you borrow them.
The suggestion here would be like saying instead of each netrunner deck being able to have 3 of each card it includes, lets instead limit it to 1. I'm sure Lukas and Damon wouldn't think this was a wise move even though it would mean more creative decks.
Another possible rules change, that would not include a change of the deployment card: Change the text of Reach to "No rules."
I would love to see them limit copies of the same Deployment card to 2. I don't know for sure that it would not require an errata to the RG as well (since they are in every way over the curve) but it would be very much in line with what FFG tries to do with other games in their LCG model, namely, remove the pay-to-win aspect (or at least downtone it). With this, one Core would be enough if you borrow/proxy Deployment cards, and you don't need to buy up 4-6 boxes of Sabs or Hired Guns, or whatever the next thing is. This would put a leash on spam lists. You could still spam cheap units, but you can't just find the best-for-your-bucks unit and spam it.
I also think, for the visual and entertainment value, having diverse lists would be a good move. I don't think such a limit would be enough, because we'd most likely still see competitive Imperial lists fielding the 2 allowed groups and perhaps an Elite group and closely resemble the 4x4 because the RG card in itself is tremendously efficient.
I love this idea. Limiting the number of copies seems like a great way to balance the game. I really hope this one gets some consideration.
If a 4x4 was playing some other generic, but solid, list - how much of a VP head start would the other list need to even the scales? 5 points? 10 points?
I wonder if the real problem is, that all the Imperial faction cards are supposed to be able to combat campaign experienced heroes, and that translates really poorly to the Skirmish level. Dunno, just a thought.
@jesper : it seems you don't use gis fix, otherwise you would only be at 36 points.
How do you get it to 36 points?
Royal Guard 8 pts
Royal Guard 8 pts
Imperial Officer 2 pts
Imperial Officer 2 pts
Elite Imperial Officer 5 pts
Temporary Alliance 1 pt
Elite Tusken Raiders 7 pts
Elite Tusken Raiders 7 pts
Total 40 pts
Jesper the OT fix was also RG to be at 6 points
Fair enough. I'm more pro limiting to two per deployment cards than changing cards, so I based my calculations on that, as changing cards simply isn't a realistic move for FFG.
I wonder if the real problem is, that all the Imperial faction cards are supposed to be able to combat campaign experienced heroes, and that translates really poorly to the Skirmish level. Dunno, just a thought.
The is exactly why there is an issue. Balancing a single stat card against two different game formats is likely not going to work out well.
Aye, reminds me of most Flying Frog Games.
Royal Guard 8 pts
Royal Guard 8 pts
Imperial Officer 2 pts
Imperial Officer 2 pts
Elite Imperial Officer 5 pts
Temporary Alliance 1 pt
Elite Tusken Raiders 7 pts
Elite Tusken Raiders 7 pts
Total 40 pts
(http://ia-armies.com/army/J0q2dDvU)
My wife ran this same list (I didn't check command cards) against me last night and barely won on Battlefield Engineering. It was a GREAT game. I had beaten her 3 times in a row in skirmish and this broke the streak.
I ran:
13 - Boba Fett
6 - Saska Teft
7 - Elite Sabs
7 - Elite Sabs
3 - Gideon
3 - Mak
1 - Balance of the Force
I wonder if the real problem is, that all the Imperial faction cards are supposed to be able to combat campaign experienced heroes, and that translates really poorly to the Skirmish level. Dunno, just a thought.
The is exactly why there is an issue. Balancing a single stat card against two different game formats is likely not going to work out well.
Well now that they have introduced characters with different cards for skirmish and campaign maybe this can get addressed on future units.
Jesper limiting to two is a reasonable idea. The heck if it wins most of the time or not but my favourite list is still kayn, 2 elite troopers, 1 rg and 2 officers. So no prob for me there.
I wonder if the real problem is, that all the Imperial faction cards are supposed to be able to combat campaign experienced heroes, and that translates really poorly to the Skirmish level. Dunno, just a thought.
The is exactly why there is an issue. Balancing a single stat card against two different game formats is likely not going to work out well.
Which is why they divided up the deployment card for a figure in Wave 2. I expect to see more of that in the future.
0 Cost Skirmish Upgrade Card: "Meet Your Destiny or Something Like That"
"Attach to any unique character with a cost of 12 or less: Do something to this character so he's tough enough to be worth his points and challenge a 4x4. Now he's worth putting on the board and everyone is happy!"
You know, if FFG wants us to use unique figures all they have to do is make that a rule. They could just make it a tournament rule variant and leave everything else the same.
"Tournament Rule Variant: All skirmish teams must contain at least one unique figure."
By doing that the Imperial player would be forced to substitute at least one Royal Guard with a unique. The cheapest Imperial right now is General Sorin, at 8 points. This would help the Rebel player dramatically, with C3PO only being 2 points (and well worth it). It might hurt the Scum a little, but their cheapest is Dengar at 7 points.
Either way, if the Imperial player is truly overpowered this would help fix that for the time being.
I wonder if the real problem is, that all the Imperial faction cards are supposed to be able to combat campaign experienced heroes, and that translates really poorly to the Skirmish level. Dunno, just a thought.
The is exactly why there is an issue. Balancing a single stat card against two different game formats is likely not going to work out well.
Which is why they divided up the deployment card for a figure in Wave 2. I expect to see more of that in the future.
It needs to happen for Skirmish to be viable moving forward, but they also have to redress the already released models from the initial expansions.
Imperial Officers and Royal Guards are stat'd and costed for balanced Campaign use, not Skirmish. Glaring issues were an inevitably when you consider the difficulties that is balancing a figure within a game, let alone two different games simultaneously. It is simply asking too much.
Royal Guards and Rebel Saboteurs both got errata today.,..
Fixed.
*cough*
Nerfed.
I for one welcome our new competitive Mercenary Lists!
Wow ... should we now print the new cards for Officers and Royal Guards by ourselves and use them instead of the original ones?
Fixed.
*cough*
Nerfed.
and rightly so