Let's put it this way:

Please tell me an imperial list with your fix as a rule which could beat

Luke

2x reg sab

2x elite sab

Gideon

C-3po

(Or even sab spam, but just remove that one from the equation for now)

What should I say. Royal Guards have about 3 seconds in the movies. Guarding the Emperor. Who doesn't even have a figure in Imperial Asaault. Would anyone really miss them?

(I would miss some money. I own 4 core sets. Still I say: Ban them!)

To ban them would be the easiest fix, indeed.

Yes you dou need analysis in this case because your wanna-be fix does not only apply to the 4x4 list but to any list playing even some royal guards.

Restricting to 2 deployment cards of regular guards would do the same as yours as there would only be 4 figures on the board and not 8 and it would still allow some lists to be playable after all on the imperial side without them being hit by your "fix" at all.

Every time you want to change ONE aspect of a game you need to think of the whole picture and not only on one list.

Did you even think about other lists on the imperial side while having the idea for your fix?

Do you want to say that the imperial side needs those absolutely OP Royal Guards and has no chance to win against if they were more balanced?

How about adding the rule that if one person has 3 or more of the same name (be it regular or elite) that the other person automatically receives a certain amount of victory points, or maybe is allowed more deployment points.

Sorry to be a broken record, but it really sucks when someone makes your favorite guys to play weaker. Don't weaken them, make the other player/figures stronger through synergy. Ever played a MMORPG where they nerfed you? RGs are NOT my favorite to play, but instead of cutting them off at the legs why not give them a greater challenge. That way everyone comes out happy.

I say for example kayn needs at least 1 royal guard close to him and his troopers to have some chance of survivability.

But a different approach:

Why do you think your approach is better then restricting a deployment card to 2 regulars and 2 elites?

Banning is always the easiest way, but what next? Buhu elite sabs are too good for their point so we ban those too? Some people will find some units ALWAYS too strong so why not just ban every unit in the game?

So you like this game to stay unbalanced, like it is right now?

I'm sorry, you are quite lonely in this position.

I want to have a good gaming experience while using ALL existing models - or at least most of them.

Exactly at which point did I say I don't want any change?

I said you should think about the consequences of your "fix" before you propose it.

And you gladly avoided to answer my previous question:

Why do you think your idea should be applied and not the 2 reg limit approach?

This one would acutally not kill other imp lists like yours.

Let's put it this way:

Please tell me an imperial list with your fix as a rule which could beat

Luke

2x reg sab

2x elite sab

Gideon

C-3po

(Or even sab spam, but just remove that one from the equation for now)

2x Royal Guard

2x Imperial Officer

1x Elite Imperial Officer

1x Temporary Alliance

2x Elite Tusken Raiders

Limiting deployment to 2 of the same card is the simplest fix to increase diversity.

This solves the problem with too many guards and officers while keeping the units the same, and it doesn't really impact other builds at all.

Luke+Sabs is good, but not unbeatably good. The biggest problem with that build is that the white die can ruin games, but that's a completely different topic.

@jesper : it seems you don't use gis fix, otherwise you would only be at 36 points.

And yes, from the different approaches I find the limit on reg numbers the best. There would be no errata and thats great.

Limiting deployment to 2 of the same card is the simplest fix to increase diversity.

This solves the problem with too many guards and officers while keeping the units the same, and it doesn't really impact other builds at all.

Luke+Sabs is good, but not unbeatably good. The biggest problem with that build is that the white die can ruin games, but that's a completely different topic.

How does this not limit a trooper spam team wanting to run 4x Reg Troopers or 4x Rebel Troopers and Fenn. Limiting all the underpowered figures to only 2 and 2 doesn't really solve the problem. People will still run the most efficient and valuewise units. Changing this just means we'll see a lot of Royal Guard Officer + X teams. You need to change the value of the royal guard or it's efficieny the make it on par with other units to solve any kind of problem.

They can bring 2x reg troopers and 2x elite troopers if they really want that many troopers.

But that is bad anyways, so it doesn't really come into the discussion of what needs to be done to improve the competitive landscape.

Nothing is wrong with 2x RG, 2x Officer + X teams. They're good, but not to the ridiculous point of 4x4. And the fact that it isn't obvious what 20 points fill up that X means we'll have a bunch of people playing different things. You might see vader, RGC, 2x elite troopers, or whatever else. All of those builds should be viable.

Limiting deployment to 2 of the same card is the simplest fix to increase diversity.

This solves the problem with too many guards and officers while keeping the units the same, and it doesn't really impact other builds at all.

Luke+Sabs is good, but not unbeatably good. The biggest problem with that build is that the white die can ruin games, but that's a completely different topic.

How does this not limit a trooper spam team wanting to run 4x Reg Troopers or 4x Rebel Troopers and Fenn. Limiting all the underpowered figures to only 2 and 2 doesn't really solve the problem. People will still run the most efficient and valuewise units. Changing this just means we'll see a lot of Royal Guard Officer + X teams. You need to change the value of the royal guard or it's efficieny the make it on par with other units to solve any kind of problem.

With Heavy Troopers, Snowtroopers and Stormtroopers all valid but slightly different options for the Imperial and then Fenn having Rebel Troopers and Echo base troopers to play with, the ban on 2 regulars is fine for any troop team.

I can see the Errata/fix coming out with Hoth, when we have the most options available and won't make most lists currently unplayable.

And yes, from the different approaches I find the limit on reg numbers the best. There would be no errata and thats great.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of limiting any unit (regular or elite) to 2 ...

The only deployment cards, that are played more than twice in any list I've seen so far, are those units, which are overpowered (especially Royal Guards and Imperial Officers).

I still think, that the Royal Guards are overpowered. And this wouldn't change by limiting them to 2.

Right now, this would effect:

Wookie Warrior
Rebel Saboteur
Rebel Trooper
Nexu
Tusken Raider
Trandoshan Hunter
Hired Gun
E-Web Engineer
Probe Droid
Imperial Officer
Royal Guard
Heavy Stormtrooper
Stormtrooper

Honestly, which one of these groups would you really want to play more than 2 of?

Stormtroopers

Right now, this would effect:

Wookie Warrior

Rebel Saboteur

Rebel Trooper

Nexu

Tusken Raider

Trandoshan Hunter

Hired Gun

E-Web Engineer

Probe Droid

Imperial Officer

Royal Guard

Heavy Stormtrooper

Stormtrooper

Honestly, which one of these groups would you really want to play more than 2 of?

Stormtrooper

Probe Droid

Hired Gun

Officer

Royal Guard

Rebel Sabateur

Rebel Troopers

Wookiee Warrior

All of those at least maybe more.

The point I'm making is changing the value of the royal guard will hinder less creativity than changing the entire team building structure.

If your arguement was: keep team building the same but errata royal guards to say "No more than 2 of a reg. royal guard deploymeny card" and the same for elites. Then I think you may be stepping towards a solution and not further hampering creativity.

It honestly doesn't matter whats competitive and whats not. Why balance the game for competitive players if it limits the choices for everyone else. You are slapping a fix on every unit when only a handful are out of balance.

The regular Stormtrooper, the regular Probe Droid, the regular Hired Gun and the regular Rebel Trooper are all underpowered. Why would anyone want to play more than 2 of them?

Well competitive rules are for competition and supposed to be the most fair rules possible to allow a fair competition. "House rules" are for people to be silly, or try something out they normally can't or wouldn't. Many people "House rule" currently to make the game more fair in the face of 4x4, but it should be the other way. The Competitive rules should make things fair and equal while house rules allow for silliness and over-power or strangeness.

I would also think a skirmish upgrade at the cost of 1 point for Rebels and Mercs that allow 1 reroll per turn for each figure on the board that is unique in that player's team.

So practically Heroes, Villians, and single figures whose buddies have died all get a boost.

What's competitive is actually the only thing that matters in regards to balancing. If you're not playing at a competitive level, then play however you want, nobody is going to care or stop you.

Currently, the only units it even remotely makes sense to bring more than 2 of are officers, guards, and sabs.

Limiting all of these sounds great to me.

A simple errata that would not destroy the current RG would be to simply put a "campaign icon" on the existing ones and release a skirmish version. Just increasing their cost by one would (probably) be game changing. I agree with those that hate erratas, so it would be a nice idea to get new cards at least.

This could be included in a RG villain pack or in a skirmish special pack (I'd like to see a new card for Han and elite versions of the heroes for exemple).

Let's be honest, an errata is the only option if they dont want to affect all other units, though, like I said, I'm not a big fan of the idea, unless it is done properly.

What's competitive is actually the only thing that matters in regards to balancing. If you're not playing at a competitive level, then play however you want, nobody is going to care or stop you.

Currently, the only units it even remotely makes sense to bring more than 2 of are officers, guards, and sabs.

Limiting all of these sounds great to me.

Agree to disagree.

A simple errata that would not destroy the current RG would be to simply put a "campaign icon" on the existing ones and release a skirmish version. Just increasing their cost by one would (probably) be game changing. I agree with those that hate erratas, so it would be a nice idea to get new cards at least.

This could be included in a RG villain pack or in a skirmish special pack (I'd like to see a new card for Han and elite versions of the heroes for exemple).

Let's be honest, an errata is the only option if they dont want to affect all other units, though, like I said, I'm not a big fan of the idea, unless it is done properly.

This! New cards are a great idea, that way we aren't nerfing, which sucks, banning them entirely, which sucks, or limiting all deployment cards to 2, which eliminates other list ideas. This way, it's a simple fix that does its job without ruining other things.

A simple errata that would not destroy the current RG would be to simply put a "campaign icon" on the existing ones and release a skirmish version. Just increasing their cost by one would (probably) be game changing. I agree with those that hate erratas, so it would be a nice idea to get new cards at least.

This could be included in a RG villain pack or in a skirmish special pack (I'd like to see a new card for Han and elite versions of the heroes for exemple).

Let's be honest, an errata is the only option if they dont want to affect all other units, though, like I said, I'm not a big fan of the idea, unless it is done properly.

This! New cards are a great idea, that way we aren't nerfing, which sucks, banning them entirely, which sucks, or limiting all deployment cards to 2, which eliminates other list ideas. This way, it's a simple fix that does its job without ruining other things.

Do we have to pay to get these new cards?

Meh, even if it's free I still don't like it. I'd rather see a limit on the number of deployment cards...