Break the broken 4x4:

Royal Guard Fix:

Reduce cost from 8 points to 6 points.

Reduce number of models from 2 to 1

Elite Royal Guard Fix:

Reduce cost from 12 points to 8 points

Reduce number of models from 2 to 1

Knackers up the groups for campaign, they should come as a pair.

nice then i can have 5x4

Hasn't this topic be discussed enough? Its more a case of creating new a interesting and competitive units and than trying amend and existing one.

nice then i can have 5x4

5 Guard models and 4 Officers

instead of

8 Guard models and 4 Officers

Thats a difference.

Hasn't this topic be discussed enough? Its more a case of creating new a interesting and competitive units and than trying amend and existing one.

No, we have many models right now which could be interesting if the Guards would be chopped down to fit the average cost efficiency.

Immediately after that, we would need to chop down the saboteurs. And what comes next?

Hasn't this topic be discussed enough? Its more a case of creating new a interesting and competitive units and than trying amend and existing one.

No, we have many models right now which could be interesting if the Guards would be chopped down to fit the average cost efficiency.

Well we're almost at 4-5th wave so they could have already made new units on par with the royal guads or rebel sabateurs by wave 3 or 4 at least. Instead - almost all of them are (and look like from previews) cost inefficient. There are some exceptions of course, boba is great but others are just meh.

Take wookie warriors for example - pretty new unit from wave 3, same cost as RG, 4 move, no reach, no stun, no surge to +2 dmg. Clearly the surge abilities are worse and green dice has lower chance to generate one. No innate way to generate focus (paying 2 more points for the overpriced attachment is nonsense too)

3 more hitpoints dont justify that IMO

They really need to come up with the system how to evaluete cost efficiency. The game is great but it seriously has some problems with units points costing

Immediately after that, we would need to chop down the saboteurs. And what comes next?

If the saboteurs would dominate the meta thereafter, sure why not?

And thereafter we would have a more balanced gameplay.

And as has been mentioned in the other thread, the Saboteurs differ from the Royal Guard in significant ways, in that they are fairly easy to kill and take off the board and you can play around Blast rather easily. The Rebel Sabs list is very strong, because it does well against 4x4 but it wouldn't necessarily do as well against other builds. I also think Rebels have a plethora of decent builds that are primarily held down by the 4x4, but would do better in general or against Sab builds specifically.

I would love to see them limit copies of the same Deployment card to 2. I don't know for sure that it would not require an errata to the RG as well (since they are in every way over the curve) but it would be very much in line with what FFG tries to do with other games in their LCG model, namely, remove the pay-to-win aspect (or at least downtone it). With this, one Core would be enough if you borrow/proxy Deployment cards, and you don't need to buy up 4-6 boxes of Sabs or Hired Guns, or whatever the next thing is. This would put a leash on spam lists. You could still spam cheap units, but you can't just find the best-for-your-bucks unit and spam it.

I also think, for the visual and entertainment value, having diverse lists would be a good move. I don't think such a limit would be enough, because we'd most likely still see competitive Imperial lists fielding the 2 allowed groups and perhaps an Elite group and closely resemble the 4x4 because the RG card in itself is tremendously efficient.

I agree with whoever said they need to come up with some sort of basic point cost breakdown soon, if Skirmish is to survive as a competitive game. Looking at the comments that went about after Worlds, seems to imply that they need to do this sooner, rather than later, before the steam leaves the game. Fortunately, they have shown willingness with the Pass rule. That was a good step in the right direction.

Nerfing is the worst option when it comes to fixing a game. There should be more creative options, like adding the pass rule or future command cards that beef up the other weaker ones. Or adding stronger units in the future that will synergize with some of the weaker/overpriced ones and give them more value. Like add a smuggler that makes others smugglers better = instantly Han Solo is worth his points.

I think Fantasy flight is right to not play toe in toe with the power level of the RGs because then they would have a lot of unusable units on their hands. I think limiting the amount of RGs to 2 is a great idea, then the Elite Stormie and RG combo would get play and Darth Vader + RG would probably be top meta. WHICH IS GOOD! Darth Vader should be a top meta figure in any Star Wars game, I love the idea of my biggest threat being Vader.

And I also agree with Boba Rick, CCs and Skirmish upgrades for "Hunters" and "Smugglers" are all that's needed to bring Han Solo and certain scum figures into a nice fold.

Limiting the number of skirmish units from 4 to 3 or 2 is a much better idea than actually changing the units themselves. If you change the units themselves then a bunch of us have these useless cards that we have to write on or pay to replace. Ugh.

Break the broken 4x4:

Royal Guard Fix:

Reduce cost from 8 points to 6 points.

Reduce number of models from 2 to 1

Elite Royal Guard Fix:

Reduce cost from 12 points to 8 points

Reduce number of models from 2 to 1

Why not increase the cost of each group by 4.

This does the same effect but makes it harder to slot in a single guard. It should make them less attractive as a whole and make people think twice about using them.

Can we please stop with this... FFG does know that we want something done with the guards. And if you still want to discuss this, please use one of the existing topics.

And in general: If you suggest some "fix" please tell us WHY you think this is THE fix.

Can we please stop with this... FFG does know that we want something done with the guards. And if you still want to discuss this, please use one of the existing topics.

And in general: If you suggest some "fix" please tell us WHY you think this is THE fix.

Are people not allowed to discuss the game on the games forum? It's not like this is one of the other threads here full of trolls and people screaming at each other. Let people have a conversation man. If you don't want to partake just don't go in the thread.

Can we please stop with this... FFG does know that we want something done with the guards. And if you still want to discuss this, please use one of the existing topics.

And in general: If you suggest some "fix" please tell us WHY you think this is THE fix.

Well, at this point this topic is an existing topic just like the others.

This would be A fix. I've never said that there is no other possibility to come by. Reducing the cost effectiveness of the RG would result in a more balanced game. Do you want to argue with this?

And in general: I can't stop telling while telling why I think this is THE fix at the same time, don't you think?

Break the broken 4x4:

Royal Guard Fix:

Reduce cost from 8 points to 6 points.

Reduce number of models from 2 to 1

Elite Royal Guard Fix:

Reduce cost from 12 points to 8 points

Reduce number of models from 2 to 1

Why not increase the cost of each group by 4.

This does the same effect but makes it harder to slot in a single guard. It should make them less attractive as a whole and make people think twice about using them.

I think a single guard is much less threatening by its own but you can still build flexible lists. Imagine you want to have a single guard to protect a character model or simply an E-Web.

I like this better then just rise the costs for the deployment card.

But you don't do any analysis on how your "fix" would work out on non 4x4 lists which are playing royal guards and how this would affect rebel and scum lists.

And yes,people should be free to talk about the game in the games forum but we don't need a topic about this in almost any of the subforums and the mainforum.

Why not stick to one and keep it there?

My idea would be to reduce Regular Royal Guards in the Tournament Rules to a legal maximum of 0. Anything else is not enough. Vader plus 2 RGs would be still overpowered.

Nerfing is the worst option when it comes to fixing a game.

!!!

What should I say. Royal Guards have about 3 seconds in the movies. Guarding the Emperor. Who doesn't even have a figure in Imperial Asaault. Would anyone really miss them?

(I would miss some money. I own 4 core sets. Still I say: Ban them!)

Seriously why ban them? If you want them to really change introducing a new skirmish pack or an complete errata would the way to go for it. It makes the card we have to an campaign card and you would essentially have your "ban" without loosing a figure.

Reducing the maximum of any card to 2 would do it.

Two regular Royal Guards and two Elite Royal Guards are probably still a tough list, but without those officers they lose their initial race to objectives and you're down to only four activations. Quite a bit different.

Even the Vader/2 RG/3 Officer build would have to adjust, losing an Officer in the process.

2 Sabs and 2 Elite Sabs would still be a thing, however with more diverse lists going up against them, I do not think they are as difficult to take down as the 4x4.

4 regular deployment maximum made some sense back when the Core box was the only thing available. Rebels didn't necessarily have an issue, but the Imperial player's options for worthwhile cards was restricted. The difference in the movies has always been Quality vs Quantity (Vader being the exception), and I believe FFG's goal was to mimic that while trying to keep it balanced. Now at Wave 3/4, I believe there is enough of a variety in available models for the Empire that a 2 maximum of any card can be employed while still giving the Empire significant choices for list building.

But you don't do any analysis on how your "fix" would work out on non 4x4 lists which are playing royal guards and how this would affect rebel and scum lists.

And yes,people should be free to talk about the game in the games forum but we don't need a topic about this in almost any of the subforums and the mainforum.

Why not stick to one and keep it there?

You don't need any analysis in this case.

The absolute dominance of the RG in the competitive meta is pictured just excellent by subsequent and multiple topics about this matter, showing that this is a real problem for many players - and thus for the future of the product itself.

Yes you dou need analysis in this case because your wanna-be fix does not only apply to the 4x4 list but to any list playing even some royal guards.

Restricting to 2 deployment cards of regular guards would do the same as yours as there would only be 4 figures on the board and not 8 and it would still allow some lists to be playable after all on the imperial side without them being hit by your "fix" at all.

Every time you want to change ONE aspect of a game you need to think of the whole picture and not only on one list.

Did you even think about other lists on the imperial side while having the idea for your fix?