Now that wave 2 is out, what is everyone thinking of the Raider 2, GSD 2,VSD 2 and the ISD 2?

I am actually loving the VSD 2 and ISD 2, they are robust and bring about enough power to handle Ackbar.

I have not tried the GSD 2 though. I have heard the Dano and DrunkTarkin have tried it out and I think that the 2 Anti-squadron dice will be good while on a more survivable platform when compared with the Raider but I am not sure about it still. . .

I think the Raider is weird though. It is one of those hard to figure out ships I think

I haven't fielded the Raider-II yet, only pairs of Raider-Is, but I'm guessing that a pair of Raider-IIs with Exp launchers could be a thing. Or with some blue-crit stuff, although that seems to warrant Screed. Dunno.

I had a pair of Glad-IIs in the last Vassal tourney. Those, plus Warlord/H-9 seemed to make opponents think twice before throwing their squadrons at me. But I never met anything really fighter-heavy, so can't say if it was really worth it (I did kill a crippled AF with a parting single red dice + CF out the side of one, which was kind of cool, but unlikely to happen ever again).

Imo, not sure the Glad is worth upgraded to 2AA dice. It can outrun squadrons. And is kinda bulky. And i dont' see enough powerhouse bomber lists. And they usually go after the ISD or something instead.

Come to think of it...

...number of IIs (out of 4 ships) in my current list is...

...ZERO!

I haven't fielded the Raider-II yet, only pairs of Raider-Is, but I'm guessing that a pair of Raider-IIs with Exp launchers could be a thing.

Can't.

No Ordnance slot.

Boooooo, Raider twooooo.

Raider II with OP is my cheap filler/flanker. I'm also in agreement that the ISD and VSD are good ran as II's.

I haven't fielded the Raider-II yet, only pairs of Raider-Is, but I'm guessing that a pair of Raider-IIs with Exp launchers could be a thing.

Can't.

No Ordnance slot.

Boooooo, Raider twooooo.

Oh well, not fielding them anyway, so who cares

<3<3<3 ISD-I <3<3<3

I haven't fielded the Raider-II yet, only pairs of Raider-Is, but I'm guessing that a pair of Raider-IIs with Exp launchers could be a thing.

Can't.

No Ordnance slot.

Boooooo, Raider twooooo.

Oh well, not fielding them anyway, so who cares

No argument here.

For 48 pts, a Raider-I with Ordnance Experts is a versatile little beast.

I want to try running a pair of Raider-IIs with NK-7s with Screed on supervision and see how frustrated I can make my enemies when they're defending with no tokens.

Up till realizing I need to try fighters, I was swearing by VSD-IIs and ISD-IIs with Overload pulses to make Avenger incredible. But with the likelyhood of nasty Ackbar Assault frigate and MC80 lists increasing by the day, I'm switching to Is and taking clouds of fighters... something Ackbar can't fire at with red dice.

Even in wave one I have sniped more than a few ships with a glad 2 on the turn. After a few rounds of bombers and long rang VSD fire sometimes all you need is a red die or two.

Part of being surprised by the two AA dice of the GSD2 versus the Raider was the fact that it sports the same AA as the ISD2. The black AA dice are fine and all but it will come as no surprise to anyone that the blue dice feel very different to the black. If squadrons are on the table, it's much easier to form a cloud of supporting AA with blue rather than black with multiple ships.

Part of being surprised by the two AA dice of the GSD2 versus the Raider was the fact that it sports the same AA as the ISD2. The black AA dice are fine and all but it will come as no surprise to anyone that the blue dice feel very different to the black. If squadrons are on the table, it's much easier to form a cloud of supporting AA with blue rather than black with multiple ships.

Caveat: blue AA dice are cursed.

They score waaay below their so-called "average" of 0.5.

This is known (even Jon Snow knows this, and he knows nothing).

Raider-IIs worked fine for me when I finally got around to testing them (I'd been running my Raider-I since Sullust). I used them with SW-7 Ion Cannons and the guaranteed damage with smaller pools of dice is nice. I'm not 100% sold on the SW-7s just yet but the Raider-II itself is a more moderate medium-ranged variant of the Raider-I. Not bad at all.

I'm having a hard time taking Gladiator-IIs. The red dice on the sides feel more like a downgrade given the black dice are rerollable with Ordnance Experts. I like the superior flak, but I don't 6 points like the superior flak. That's nearly a TIE Fighter squadron.

ISD-IIs are pretty legit and offer some long-ranged artillery for the typically short-ranged Imperials, so I get why it's popular. ISD-Is are also pretty good but it seems like most people have decided to only use ISD-IIs without trying the other variant, which I feel is a mistake.

VSD-IIs are not very popular with me, anyways. The 12 point upgrade cost is extremely high. The VSD-I is still legit, but I'm having a very hard time imagining when I'd want a VSD-II - at this point I'd much rather spend the extra points upgrading to an ISD over a VSD-II.

VSD II is my preferred OP platform. Combine with Gunnery Team and it's a lot more solid at the expense of maneuverability.

Wave I:

VSDs: The II-Versions 3 blue dice instead of the I-Versions 3 black ones do not legitimate the 12 more points in my oppinion

GSDs: I prefer the 4 black dice sides of the I-Version, but the 2 blue Anti-Squadron dice from the II-Version are an interesting option

Wave II: (theory, cause wave 2 is not released in my country yet)

Raider: The I-Versions blue and black anti squadron seems to be more efficient than the II-Versions 2 blue dice would be

ISD: As being an aggresiv, close combat player I prefer the I-Version and its possible 5 black dice (front/side arc working together)

So I got the 1 Syndrom

I have found that the VSD 2 is great for its points. It's average damage goes up a lot more when compared to the VSD 1 and thus makes cards like XI7 Turbolasers and such that rely on the amount of damage being dealt.

Wave I:

VSDs: The II-Versions 3 blue dice instead of the I-Versions 3 black ones do not legitimate the 12 more points in my oppinion

GSDs: I prefer the 4 black dice sides of the I-Version, but the 2 blue Anti-Squadron dice from the II-Version are an interesting option

Wave II: (theory, cause wave 2 is not released in my country yet)

Raider: The I-Versions blue and black anti squadron seems to be more efficient than the II-Versions 2 blue dice would be

ISD: As being an aggresiv, close combat player I prefer the I-Version and its possible 5 black dice (front/side arc working together)

So I got the 1 Syndrom

Raider 1 has black black and 2 has blue black.

The big advantage for the ISD 2 is it can take ECM. Important against all those dice being thrown around in wave 2.

I have found that the VSD 2 is great for its points. It's average damage goes up a lot more when compared to the VSD 1 and thus makes cards like XI7 Turbolasers and such that rely on the amount of damage being dealt.

My experience has differed. I find due to the blue dice having about a 50% better range (not 100%, as people who believe the range stick is divided evenly tend to believe) there aren't too many turns where the blue dice are useful when I wouldn't have gotten the black dice on a VSD-I. It does happen once a game or so, I'd say. The black dice are also higher damage output (1 average) although I freely admit the blue dice are better if you're looking for Accuracy results. The Ordnance upgrades are also extremely destructive whereas the Ion Cannon upgrades are a bit niche. This isn't to say the VSD-I is flat-out superior to the VSD-II, simply that I don't find the VSD-II is 12 points better (17% more expensive for simply swapping out black dice for blue dice and the Ordnance slot for an Ion Cannon slot).

In wave one, the VSD-II was your best option for building a gunship with the right upgrades (XI7s, Intel Officer, etc.). Nowadays I have a very hard time feeling like the upgrade costs (in both cards and points to go from VSD-I to VSD-II) are worth it compared to an ISD.

Raider 2 - literally just an ion platform (though by far the most efficient in the empire; Skreed be happy). The Raider-1 is far more efficient with just ordnance experts for the same price as a naked Raider-2.

GSD-2 - sensor teams?

VSD-2 - jesus christ 12 points! Well, with Akbar becoming a thing, the VSD-2s 6 dice at medium range can actually outfight fatties problem is they're also more expensive naked than fatties with gunnery team. Vastly prefer the VSD-1, as tractor beams breathe new life into this destructive clunker.

ISD-2 - preferred ISD by far. Ignoring ECM for the moment (Though you really can't, it's just that good right now), it's got a disgusting long/medium range punch and is easily the most effective Gunnery Team platform you can buy. Though the changes are more significant than VSD-1 --> VSD-2, it's somehow only a 10 point difference. Go figure.

I get why people automatically go for the -II version of ships, since -II implies being better than -I

This is a fallacy in Armada however as the roles change between ships. It depends on what you want the ship to do within your list to decide if you want a -I or a -II version.

Generally the -I versions seem either more close range or multi role ships, while the -II versions are either more niche ships or longer range (or both).

Personally I'm torn between the vic 1 or 2, since both could work well in my fleet. They are equal in red dice, so its a toss up between 3 black or 3 blue dice...what is better...how often do you get to use black dice vs blue dice on the victory? Half the fun is figuring that out though

Sensor Teams are the big way to go for Gladiator 2s for me. Have Always been that way... Pick someone who doesn't have ECMs and vaporise that Brace as well as your offloading... Add rapid Reload and you don't even feel the lost die.

I get why people automatically go for the -II version of ships, since -II implies being better than -I

This is a fallacy in Armada however as the roles change between ships. It depends on what you want the ship to do within your list to decide if you want a -I or a -II version.

Generally the -I versions seem either more close range or multi role ships, while the -II versions are either more niche ships or longer range (or both).

Actually, I feel like the "default" Imperial ship is the 1 in most regards. You see a lot more VSD, Raider, and GSD -1 variants on the table and in lists online than the -2 variants. The ISD seems to be the exception thus far.

The 1 variants all tend to be cheaper, Ordnance-upgrade ships with more black dice (the ISD-I obviously lacks the Ordnance slot). Given how good the Ordnance upgrades can be and the support for black dice (Ordnance Experts) in wave 2, these are pretty compelling reasons to take them over the -2 variants.

I agree with you that the -2 variants are longer-ranged. More niche I'm not quite so sure. Longer-ranged dice seem to promote more flexibility simply due to greater opportunities to attack targets, but the points costs involved are usually a harder sell.

Sensor Teams are the big way to go for Gladiator 2s for me. Have Always been that way... Pick someone who doesn't have ECMs and vaporise that Brace as well as your offloading... Add rapid Reload and you don't even feel the lost die.

I find the additional points cost difficult to justify there. The problem is you're giving up 2 dice to get a guaranteed Accuracy result. Even with Rapid Reload, that's 3 remaining black dice on a broadside that get to do damage. Compared to a GSD-I with Rapid Reload and Ordnance Experts, you're either doing a GSD-II's 3 average damage (probably a little bit more, as you can selectively remove the bad roll for Sensor Team, mind you) + Accuracy or you're doing the GSD-I's 6.25 average damage due to 5 rerollable black dice. Even if the other guy Braces off the GSD-I's attack, it's still doing equivalent damage and spending the Brace and the GSD-I costs 7 less points.

Sensor Teams are the big way to go for Gladiator 2s for me. Have Always been that way... Pick someone who doesn't have ECMs and vaporise that Brace as well as your offloading... Add rapid Reload and you don't even feel the lost die.

I assume you meant "you're"?

Otherwise that sentence gets odd. Vaporize my offloading? Why would I want to do that? I didn't even know I had an offloading. At least give me a minute to introduce myself before you vaporize it.