For me this new Environment with ships is out.

Ships in lotr Does not make sense.

I Will stop my lotr lcg Collection just here.

It is like the Happy Days fonzie jump the shark episode.

If ffg doesn t change this deluxe direction this can be the end of lotr lcg.

Sorry fgg, but you must change it. No ships please!!!

why?

Ships don't make sense? Like... the kind that are explicitly mentioned in the source material? I would understand if you were drawing the line at airplanes, but boats? This is the weirdest "the game is ending" post I've ever seen.

And just when I was trying to prove that the forums are getting better!

In all seriousness though, I couldn't disagree more with OP. Just because there are no ship voyages in the Hobbit or the LOTR novels (except at the end), that doesn't mean that there were no ships at all or that a seafaring adventure doesn't make sense in Middle Earth, even if we're not considering the prominence of ships in the 1st and 2nd ages. We're seeing corsair enemies, which are also in the books, and overall we know that the elves and gondorians had plety of ships so that exploring the seas of Middle Earth makes perfect sense. The fact that this cycle doesn't have anything to do with the story and setting of the novels doesn't change anything. Sorry, but you'll have to make better points for why you think that having ships in Middle Earth is "jumping the shark".

It seems that some people does not know about Númenor, or the ancient friendship between them and the Noldor, the Undying Lands, Valinor, etc. I recommend the reading of Unfinished Tales of Númenor and Middle-earth, right now. Besides the theme of Sea was always being there, in all the books (especially LOTR). Legolas fear the sound of gulls, because he knows he will love the sea and exploring it.

Maybe it is not the best theme for some people, but if you want to arrive to the Undying Lands, like Bilbo, Gandalf, Frodo, Galadriel, Elrond, Cirdan and Sam, hey! you must build a ship and raise the sails.

friends: dont feed the trolls

See ya

I don't think OP is necessarily against boats and sea-going, per se.

Rather, "swashbuckling adventure on the high seas" is not something characteristically associated with Tolkien. Indeed, none of your examples contradict that feeling. It does seem an odd thing to focus an entire cycle on, and only natural for someone to think it's a sign that they're running out of ideas and grasping at straws.

And just because someone disagrees with the general consensus doesn't make them a troll. That's an all too easy way to convince yourself you can plug your ears and ignore their uncomfortable statements. Maybe they just have a different opinion.

I don't find it uncomfortable at all, I find it premature and baseless. I'm probably being too harsh, but someone should at least wait to play the thing before making a judgment. If you've gone this far with the game, you think you'd do that much at least. It reminds me very much of the bind that bands get into, where if they stick to their sound, everyone says, "They're just rehashing the same songs over and over again", but if they innovate and try something new, then everyone says, "Ah, they're grasping at straws, they've gone too far!". I for one expect this to be the best expansion and cycle yet. And, as I've said in other places, the saga expansions are the place for them to slavishly follow the books. The cycles are where they should allows us to play in places Tolkien never showed us directly. I for one have wished for ships and an ocean voyage for a long time.

I always hoped to see Umbar represented in the game, this new cycle seems to be the closes we'll ever get to that possibility.

And just because someone disagrees with the general consensus doesn't make them a troll. That's an all too easy way to convince yourself you can plug your ears and ignore their uncomfortable statements. Maybe they just have a different opinion.

But he is a troll. His commentaries are unconfortable because they are stupid: he shows unknowledge of the source material and he says he doesn't like ships and won't buy more and he writes a post where there's no discussion matter. He can do wathever he wants, like cleaning his ass with his card collection. For a moment, I thought there could be something interesting.

Man the ships! THIS MEANS WAR!

Seriously though. Sea = Tolkien. Silmarillion = Sea. Numenor = Sea. Legolas wants Sea, Gandalf wants Sea as "the end" and even tricks Pippin into wanting Sea "That's not so bad," said Pippin. "No. No it isn't," answered Gandalf.

I don't even know why I dó take the time to explain myself...

"Send out your Wargriders!" - Saruman the White

Mmm ok now answer me,

What can you do with Your new shop cards? Can you use it in old quest?

Can you use ship in Moria? This expansion is an empty round.

Mmm ok now answer me,

What can you do with Your new SHIP cards? CAN YOU USE THEM IN OLD QUEST?

Can you use ship in Moria? This expansion is an empty round.

Those ships are sort of objective cards that will only be present in the representative sea quests. If you're worrying that they'll release a non-objective ship player card, then fear not.

The ships are objective cards for the deluxe box quests, like Iarion and Amarthuil was etc ... they are not for universal use

Now I want to use the ships in other quests. Ents and eagles sailing through Moria!

Holly ship!

Ok we Will see, but I m not a troll. I love this game and I m always careful about some risk of decay.

I don't think OP is necessarily against boats and sea-going, per se.

Rather, "swashbuckling adventure on the high seas" is not something characteristically associated with Tolkien. Indeed, none of your examples contradict that feeling. It does seem an odd thing to focus an entire cycle on, and only natural for someone to think it's a sign that they're running out of ideas and grasping at straws.

And just because someone disagrees with the general consensus doesn't make them a troll. That's an all too easy way to convince yourself you can plug your ears and ignore their uncomfortable statements. Maybe they just have a different opinion.

Except nothing in his post said anything about "swashbuckling adventure", just about ships. For that matter, the Grey Havens announcement article says nothing about swashbuckling either, so I've no idea where you got that idea from. It actually seems fairly natural to me - the Havens are one of the iconic places in Middle Earth, but nothing really happens there except for ships sailing off. So if you want to send the players there, you pretty much have to go sailing or it'll make for a very boring quest with no enemies in it.

I do agree that people can be too quick to cry troll. I personally don't think his opinion could be more wrong, and he didn't exactly express it in a way designed to foster interesting discussion, but I believe it's a genuine opinion.

Oh, also, we need to reset the counter - 0 days since someone made a 'The game is dying' post...

I'm still hoping they'll get around to a cycle around Thorongil's raid on Umbar. Ships would work nicely there.

I'm still hoping they'll get around to a cycle around Thorongil's raid on Umbar. Ships would work nicely there.

Me too. I didn't think we were going there, but then I noticed two of the three ships in the cycle are Gondorian.

Now I want to use the ships in other quests. Ents and eagles sailing through Moria!

I like that. Will have to knock up a custom Quest Deck when all is said and done: The Flood in the Deep! Ohhh, and I can make the Nameless Things servants of Cthu...I mean The Watcher. And Orcs fleeing from their burrows in the mines. And a Balrog objective ally...

Okay, I actually meant all of this as a bad joke but now I am totally making this when the cards come out.

To the point of the thread...I get the hate but don't necessarily agree with it.

I personally love the new setting. The Grey Havens are a super interesting part of the lore and are ripe ground for more exploration of the Noldor and (maybe) Silvan and Gondor traits. I do worry a little that this is going to leave some other traits that could still use some growth behind (Rohan, Hobbit and at this point maybe some Dwarf again) but the Sellsword and Sam allies seem to belay that concern.

Regarding theme I disagree a bit with @PocketWraith. I do think the APs are showing a real "Swashbuckling Adventure" vibe that does not necessarily resonate thematically with The Grey Havens and I can understand that bothering some. But like @John Constantine said it does thematically resonate with Umbar--a very interesting and unexplored part of Middle Earth.

And, from a player perspective...I'm glad for a little bit of change. We have done a lot of mountains and caves and forests and ruins. This is different and that's good every once in a while. I can see it bothering some Tolkeen purists that want more of what we saw in the books but it isn't an issue for me. But I'm kind of a special case--I'm largely not here for the Tolkeen theme. I mean, I don't dislike it but I can think of half a dozen settings I would prefer just off the top of my head. I like the game and anything that mixes it up, keeps it fresh and allows for some fun and unique mechanics is a win for me. But YMMV and that's okay too.

I'm not contesting whether the sea, ports, ships, etc. are relevant to the lore of Middle Earth. Clearly they play an important part of it. Seafaring ties very well into the concepts of travel, new horizons, mysterious distant lands, renewing change and difference in perspectives, etc.

But having an adventure on the high seas? That is what doesn't feel quite right. Sure, corsairs and sea-serpents exist. But they really weren't players in the tales as far as I'm aware. A couple adventures here or there related to ship travel wouldn't be clearly appropriate, sure. But having an entire deluxe expansion and 6 APs on the concept seems a bit overdone. Adventurous ocean-going isn't as much a part of Middle Earth as is Mirkwood or Gondor, is it?

Although, I wouldn't be surprised if later APs deal with such things, and we won't have a whole cycle taking place on the water.

Let me try again: Although someone crying "this is b.s. the game is over" certainly is giving an irrational response, I think responding with defensiveness and unwillingness to even acknowledge the awkwardness of the concept is also silly. Of course the cards and quests of this cycle may prove to be quite excellent, but that is rather beside the point. The point is that it doesn't jive with the theme as many people imagine it. It is reasonable for you to disagree, but I don't think it's completely irrational for someone to not be pleased with the concept of a ship-sailing cycle.