Having the Emperor in this game would be similar to allowing the use of an Imperator class Titan in a game of Space Hulk.

Yes, it exists in the universe. Does it fit thematically? No, it does not.

Its a matter of *scale. The emperor does not fit in a game about a small group of rebels enacting hit and run missions against the empire. His addition would be, essentially, jumping the shark.

The *only* way I could see it being implemented reasonably, is the same way they did with heroclix Galactus. Simply point cost him outside any possible use in any tournament, and not writing him into a campaign. Sith fanboys get their old man fix, and nobody has to take it seriously.

Another nonsense comment.

Its not a Titan in Space Hulk (that would make sense talking about a Death Star in IA) and its not Galactus in Heroclix (that would make sense talking about a Sith god or whatever in IA).

The emperor fits (as an example) if that group of rebels wants to destroy the shield generator in a moon around a planet where happens to be a empire station orbiting... oh wait...

I find you guys amusing... One figure is forbidden to exist just because youre afraid of whats going to be... if ever...

I'll stifle the smartass comeback for your benefit.

I'm afraid you've missed my point. You do understand the idea of scale and theme I am trying to express here, right? Can you give me an example of a comparable power level thing in another mythology (since you didn't like mine).

Imagine you're playing Dungeons and Dragons and your adventure for level 3 characters (four fighters/rogues in this case) ends with you fighting Elminster (or Halaster, if you know who that is).

Imagine you're watching a cop show like Law and Order or CSI and at the end Magneto shows up and murders the crap out of *everybody.

If there were an instance with a shield generator, we already know who took out the Death Star II generator and where the Emperor was at that time, so you can't be referring to that incident. Imperial Assault isn't Star Wars minis, it works within established timeline. I can't imagine the emperor sitting in guard duty on a tertiary shield generator on a secondary space station when he really needs to be busy ruling the universe.

So we can talk apples to apples, who would you compare Palpatine to in another setting?

It wasnt a smartass comment. It made no sense your comment.

Exactly my point... scale. The ruler of a space empire (that doesnt control all the galaxy) its not a god (or demi-god) which is what youre implying by comparing to Galactus (or Elmister or Halaster - whatever). The Roman Emperors tought that also...

I played a lot of D&D - all versions until 4th (and most of other RPGs for that matter - have you ever played Shadowrun? Mechwarrior? Vampire? D6 Star Wars? Earthdawn? ) to know that youre tricking those who dont know to fall on your trap. Tell me why in IA a level 3 rebel group fights a demi-god/god??? Who told you that in IA that group is going to fight that guy???. This isnt D&D... you dont have levels.

You guys love to make stuff up just to try to prove that one character shouldnt be in the game... A game!

Now even crossovers are fair game to try that... Law & Order/CSI and Magneto!?!?!? BWAHAHAH. Dont go there...

I was joking with that scenario but you guys take this too serious... Im not IA game designer.

Skirmish games dont have a timeline and campaign games have the timeline that players choose to have. FFG doesnt force you to follow the timeline.... if thats important even.

Why bother comparing? Any setting that i could write you would counter by pointing that isnt the samething so...

I will try again, because I am patient.

Scale. The ruler of the empire has much better things to do than get in punch-UPS with third string would be heroes (the characters in the game). The emperor I also a powerful wizard, that's why I compare him to Elminster or Halaster. When an old man in dark robes shows up and starts tossing lightning around, that's a wizard, and this one happens to be the most powerful wizard in the entire universe. The impression I am getting from you is you think Palpatine is *far weaker than I do. That's why I was asking for a power level example. Roman emperors were not packing mind control and lightning bolts. The emperor is a *bit tougher than that, you mist admit!

The point I was trying to make with the crossover is to make a jarring juxtaposition. Imperial Assault is a game about a small group of rebels trying to fight the empire. These rebels are not powerful. They are actually quite frail and firmly grounded in our gritty squad based Sci-fi. Palpatine does not fit in our gritty warfare game any more than Magneto fits in a real world based procedural drama.

Honestly I'm not trying to prove one character shouldn't be in the game. I'm excluding an *entire class of people*, Palpatine is just the brightest example of that.

You've played DnD, and that's good. That means I can talk about it and have you understand what I'm saying. You are aware of the "Linear Fighter, quadratic Wizard" problem. Basically wizards get all the cool powers. In this game, the players are all analogues of nonmagic using classes. There is no way in hell they should be *able to beat a well prepared wizard. The only counter is the players get magic too, but that mucks with the canon. Diala existence takes established canon and shakes it in its teeth already. I am wiling to forgive the existence of one rogue force sensitive, but if they add more, and the players turn into space-wizard-ninja Jedi, then that mucks with the theme they already have established of a sci-fi squad combat game set in the Star Wars universe.

I understand you are a big fan of skirmish, and that's your cup of tea, but if Palpatine is as powerful as he's supposed to be, if the Jedi are as powerful as they should be, then the whole thing devolves into "the best piece vs the best piece" and that's *already a problem in the tourneys. It just changes from 4x4 and reb sabs, to "wizard>fighter"

I have never once said how you should play the game, I've said how I play the game and how adding Palpatine would harm that.

Yes you did. Not directly but in refusing to have a particular figure as an option...

Its such a difficult concept to understand?

I have tried to explain multiple times that I'm not doing that.

I'm saying why I think he would make some of my games of IA less enjoyable; if FFG does make Palpatine I will sigh a little then probably buy the expansion (assuming he's not just a figure pack which I still find wildly unlikely) anyway because there will be other stuff that I'll enjoy then sigh a little again whenever he turns up in the campaign.

To sum up the situation:

I want my games of IA to be immersive and feel Palpatine would break that. Thus I don't want him to be added to the game.

You want to be able to emulate any scenario you can think of and Palpatine is required for that. Thus you want him to be added to the game.

It's kind of like two people supporting different sides of a sports match; If either of us gets what we want it will result in disappointment for the other.

It made me laugh (hard) some of you worrying about flavor-wise (that IS silly guys) in a miniatures table top game about a film franchise. Getting Emperor as a figure is another option like all the other figures. If you like the idea buy it and use it if you dont dont buy it... easy.

Several reasons why we should have any figure (even if it displeases some of you):

- Its a figure (for completeness - in my case the Emperor would be very cool).

- For custom made Campaigns

- For skirmish games (and tourneys of course - maybe a bit difficult to balance ruleswise but...)

- For the painting masters out there

- Recreate the Revenge of the Sith duel between Yoda and Palpatine (maybe Yoda wins and theres no need to hide the twins and turn Anakin into robocop )

Its silly to care about the story? That is the whole POINT of the campaign, to tell a story. Thats like saying "watch star wars but only pay attention to the explosions." You say 'if you don't want him, don't buy him'... so I should skip an entire expansion box (that we pretty much get 1-2 a year.) just because some fanboys wanted Palpatine?

Yes its silly because its a board game. The whole POINT of a board game is to have fun and not to worry about why Palpatine (or any other figure for that matter) is on the table because you dont want it or if it fits the story (who told you he cant fit in the story? just because you think that? - i think the opposite).

You guys have a selfish view about a table top game by not giving other players choice in their games (since you dont think he deserves to be a figure then no one else can). Let the players worry about the whole POINT of the story/campaign and what fits or doesnt fit their tastes (i bet there are players that had a moment to be long remembered when they played against Vader - why not Palpatine? - and survived for example - thats a good story).

Thats like saying I dont like chocolate so no one else can like it/ eat it.

Yes youre doing both (nitpicking and spoil the fun). Without knowing how a campaign (and to smooth your fears he can have different mechanics for Skirmish and Campaign modes) would be with him and without knowing how he would be done (ruleswise) youre already assuming it would be less enjoyable for you... thats more than nitpicking... youre already saying its the end of the world.

About Skirmish mode not being the main FFG business for IA made me laugh hard again. They even made a worlds championship for it... no company organizes tourneys without the intention of making money out of it.

Being hard to fit in mechanically is game designers job to do it properly. Theyre paid for that. Let them worry about that.

- Frail old man!? You made me laugh hard again. Again were talking about a game and options but ill indulge in your point of view and say: A Sith Master that defeats (for all intents and purposes) the best Jedi Master and lives to tell I refuse to call him a "frail old man" (and force lightning a Jedi knight - after the same Jedi Knight defeated his best warrior).

- Norgrath... man... decide from what viewpoint you want to try justify your claim for not having a figure of Palpatine in the game... first was the flavor one (see Frail old man) and now you talk about game mechanics. Again Force Lightning isnt the only thing Palpatine can do. He also can fight with a lightsaber, use Force Throw (or whatever you want to call to hurling stuff to Yoda and is a master (maybe his best... quality) of treachery and deceit (and im only using the movies as a guide).

- Back to flavor then... lets go again then... Being a leader is precisely what is right about getting support skills in him being a sith or not. In fact looking at the movies is what he does best and fits just right in him having support skills (or barking orders if you wish - look at Maul, Dooku, Grievous - all of them acted on Palpatine orders and support - either directly or indirectly).

Its cool, you make me laugh too.

Anyways...

1. Who are you to say what the point of a board game is? I don't see any rules or laws stating these facts... hell if I wanted to I could just buy the game and use it as a paperweight. My point being is that this game serves different purposes for different people. Some play it for the story, some play it for the action, and etc. For us having Palpatine as a playable villain greatly hurts the story.

2. We are being just as selfish as the Palpatine figure supporters. You say "just don't buy him" but it doesn't work like that. When/if Palpatine is released, it'll be in an expansion... perhaps an expansion the size of Twin Shadows, an expansion the size of Return to Hoth, or maybe even bigger. You are telling us NOT to buy one of these expansions.

3. That is a terrible analogy. If Palpatine is released he will be mandatory for the expansion he is in.

4. And you have no idea how fun or terrible a campaign with him would be either. So we are equal terms on this.

5. Palpatine vs Yoda was pretty much a draw. Yoda had to retreat due to reinforcements arriving. Also Yoda himself is an old (perhaps even older) man too. And Palpatine vs Luke was not a fight in the slightest. Luke was completely disarmed and didn't even try to fight or defend himself.

6. Yes, exactly. Palpatine is a master of treachery and deceit. He operates from the shadows. He doesn't barge in and start zapping the B-team (players) of rebels.

7. Again you just reiterated the point we are making. Palpatine is a LEADER. NOT A FIGHTER. He sends his apprentices to go do the dangerous stuff for him. Palpatine doesn't risk himself and charge headlong into battle. He schemes and sends his lapdogs (Maul, Dooku, Vader) to fight for him and eventually replace them with a new lapdog.

Good... we need a good laugh after a days work and I keep laughing.

1. Using your own arguments than i must say that you have much better and cheaper paperweights because using the box like that is against the flavor of the game. FFG fault for making such a pretty paperweight.

2. No were not. "we dont like it so no one should have it" is much more selfish than "its one more option to have/play - those who like it use it those who dont dont use it". Easy. If it gets to that then yes... im saying that. When I dont like something I dont buy it. Im not going to forbid anyone else from buying it.

3. What analogy? Do you already know how hes going to be????

4. Right I dont know but you guys are already assuming its going to be a disaster. The end of the world...

5. A draw!? Reinforcements!? Ooooh poor Yoda... For such a badass Jedi Master it was... an embarassing moment. About Luke... are you serious about that? Ill explain to you then... Luke didnt fought because Palpatine caught him offguard (like the good treacheous evil being he is) when he realized he couldnt lure him to the dark side by killing his father.

6. Ok. Now try the other way around...

7. By that token then we should ban Leaders from the game.

You can quit with the 'laughing' you know, its clearly you are just trying to get under people's skin.

1. Good job completely dismissing the point I was making. I'll just assume that means you had no counterpoint.

2. Whether I like Palpatine or not has nothing to do with it. (I actually do like his character) The point is putting him in this game is foolish. (It's already dumb that a bunch of nobodies can defeat Vader and apparently the Rebels had a jedi all along.. but that is besides the point.) And yes you are being just as 'greedy' as us. In fact you might even be more so. You want an expansion that clearly people are against. How is it greedy for us to rather have FFG focus on other parts of Star Wars? I'm sure I could just as easily say I want a character from Star Wars that you hate to be in IA. Believe me, there will be a character in Star Wars you hate... EU or not.

3. Your chocolate analogy... do you even remember what you posted? And no one knows how he's going to be obviously.

4. You are the one overreacting. Not once did any of us say it'd be the end of the world nor even say we'd stop playing the game. Heck, I don't think any of us even said we'd skip an expansion with Palpatine in it... we've just said we don't want him in it.

5. Maybe you should re-watch Return of the Jedi first before stating false facts. Luke literally TOSSES AWAY HIS LIGHTSABER. That's not getting caught off guard.

6. I have no idea what you even mean here...

7. You must have a trouble understanding rank. General (the highest rank we get in combat so far) is nowhere near as high as EMPEROR OF THE GALAXY. Palpatine is the most powerful person in the galaxy and I don't mean strength/combat wise. But I do agree that even Generals shouldn't be in IA (just make them a lower rank)... but that is a different argument.

No i cant stop it. You really make me laugh. Either i do or I do not. Theres no try.

1. You completly dismissed mine so were even. Ill assume you didnt had any point to make.

2. I dont care if you like it or not. Why its dumb a bunch of nobodies can defeat Vader???? I find it amusing. Again its just a game (where things are somewhat balanced so that fun is a priority) for guys to have fun. Like I wrote in my previous post you guys take this too serious. 3 guys against the idea of having a Palpatine fig is hardly "clearly people are against" and to add insult to injury Im being "greedy"... are you sure you know the meaning of that word? I never said I want an expansion... I said I want a figure in some way. The way you write seems like FFG only have one IA game designer in part-time... Who are you to think that I have a character I hate in SW? Its a game... whatever character you think I hate Im going just to say that I dont like it but Im not going to be selfish and greedy to the point of not allowing those who like him to not having them in their game. Im not a love or hate kind of guy.. specially in a game.

3. I do and you?

4. Read again then the posts of some of the "against" faction... he even wrote that if I wanted him to skip a year or so of IA (not going to bother to look who was).

5. Luke literally TOSSES AWAY HIS LIGHTSABER... while saying to the Emperor "Ill never take the dark side. You failed your highness. Im a Jedi like my father before me." Again dont be deceitful trying to trick those who dont know. And read the novelization of the movie to help you interpret the onscreen non-dialogue action.

6. LOL.... ok. You wrote that Palpatine doesnt need to barge in and start zaping the heroes... and I wrote that you should write the other way around. Heroes barge in and zap Palpatine... Yeah youre going to say its out of flavor... or whatever.

7. Dont let a Sith Lord read your comment because if he does hes going to show you how high in rank is a Sith Lord compared to a General.

You guys think so small in a game. Now even a General cant be represented in a game. Its sad.

It made me laugh (hard) some of you worrying about flavor-wise (that IS silly guys) in a miniatures table top game about a film franchise. Getting Emperor as a figure is another option like all the other figures. If you like the idea buy it and use it if you dont dont buy it... easy.

Several reasons why we should have any figure (even if it displeases some of you):

- Its a figure (for completeness - in my case the Emperor would be very cool).

- For custom made Campaigns

- For skirmish games (and tourneys of course - maybe a bit difficult to balance ruleswise but...)

- For the painting masters out there

- Recreate the Revenge of the Sith duel between Yoda and Palpatine (maybe Yoda wins and theres no need to hide the twins and turn Anakin into robocop )

Its silly to care about the story? That is the whole POINT of the campaign, to tell a story. Thats like saying "watch star wars but only pay attention to the explosions." You say 'if you don't want him, don't buy him'... so I should skip an entire expansion box (that we pretty much get 1-2 a year.) just because some fanboys wanted Palpatine?

Yes its silly because its a board game. The whole POINT of a board game is to have fun and not to worry about why Palpatine (or any other figure for that matter) is on the table because you dont want it or if it fits the story (who told you he cant fit in the story? just because you think that? - i think the opposite).

You guys have a selfish view about a table top game by not giving other players choice in their games (since you dont think he deserves to be a figure then no one else can). Let the players worry about the whole POINT of the story/campaign and what fits or doesnt fit their tastes (i bet there are players that had a moment to be long remembered when they played against Vader - why not Palpatine? - and survived for example - thats a good story).

Thats like saying I dont like chocolate so no one else can like it/ eat it.

Yes youre doing both (nitpicking and spoil the fun). Without knowing how a campaign (and to smooth your fears he can have different mechanics for Skirmish and Campaign modes) would be with him and without knowing how he would be done (ruleswise) youre already assuming it would be less enjoyable for you... thats more than nitpicking... youre already saying its the end of the world.

About Skirmish mode not being the main FFG business for IA made me laugh hard again. They even made a worlds championship for it... no company organizes tourneys without the intention of making money out of it.

Being hard to fit in mechanically is game designers job to do it properly. Theyre paid for that. Let them worry about that.

- Frail old man!? You made me laugh hard again. Again were talking about a game and options but ill indulge in your point of view and say: A Sith Master that defeats (for all intents and purposes) the best Jedi Master and lives to tell I refuse to call him a "frail old man" (and force lightning a Jedi knight - after the same Jedi Knight defeated his best warrior).

- Norgrath... man... decide from what viewpoint you want to try justify your claim for not having a figure of Palpatine in the game... first was the flavor one (see Frail old man) and now you talk about game mechanics. Again Force Lightning isnt the only thing Palpatine can do. He also can fight with a lightsaber, use Force Throw (or whatever you want to call to hurling stuff to Yoda and is a master (maybe his best... quality) of treachery and deceit (and im only using the movies as a guide).

- Back to flavor then... lets go again then... Being a leader is precisely what is right about getting support skills in him being a sith or not. In fact looking at the movies is what he does best and fits just right in him having support skills (or barking orders if you wish - look at Maul, Dooku, Grievous - all of them acted on Palpatine orders and support - either directly or indirectly).

Its cool, you make me laugh too.

Anyways...

1. Who are you to say what the point of a board game is? I don't see any rules or laws stating these facts... hell if I wanted to I could just buy the game and use it as a paperweight. My point being is that this game serves different purposes for different people. Some play it for the story, some play it for the action, and etc. For us having Palpatine as a playable villain greatly hurts the story.

2. We are being just as selfish as the Palpatine figure supporters. You say "just don't buy him" but it doesn't work like that. When/if Palpatine is released, it'll be in an expansion... perhaps an expansion the size of Twin Shadows, an expansion the size of Return to Hoth, or maybe even bigger. You are telling us NOT to buy one of these expansions.

3. That is a terrible analogy. If Palpatine is released he will be mandatory for the expansion he is in.

4. And you have no idea how fun or terrible a campaign with him would be either. So we are equal terms on this.

5. Palpatine vs Yoda was pretty much a draw. Yoda had to retreat due to reinforcements arriving. Also Yoda himself is an old (perhaps even older) man too. And Palpatine vs Luke was not a fight in the slightest. Luke was completely disarmed and didn't even try to fight or defend himself.

6. Yes, exactly. Palpatine is a master of treachery and deceit. He operates from the shadows. He doesn't barge in and start zapping the B-team (players) of rebels.

7. Again you just reiterated the point we are making. Palpatine is a LEADER. NOT A FIGHTER. He sends his apprentices to go do the dangerous stuff for him. Palpatine doesn't risk himself and charge headlong into battle. He schemes and sends his lapdogs (Maul, Dooku, Vader) to fight for him and eventually replace them with a new lapdog.

Good... we need a good laugh after a days work and I keep laughing.

1. Using your own arguments than i must say that you have much better and cheaper paperweights because using the box like that is against the flavor of the game. FFG fault for making such a pretty paperweight.

2. No were not. "we dont like it so no one should have it" is much more selfish than "its one more option to have/play - those who like it use it those who dont dont use it". Easy. If it gets to that then yes... im saying that. When I dont like something I dont buy it. Im not going to forbid anyone else from buying it.

3. What analogy? Do you already know how hes going to be????

4. Right I dont know but you guys are already assuming its going to be a disaster. The end of the world...

5. A draw!? Reinforcements!? Ooooh poor Yoda... For such a badass Jedi Master it was... an embarassing moment. About Luke... are you serious about that? Ill explain to you then... Luke didnt fought because Palpatine caught him offguard (like the good treacheous evil being he is) when he realized he couldnt lure him to the dark side by killing his father.

6. Ok. Now try the other way around...

7. By that token then we should ban Leaders from the game.

You can quit with the 'laughing' you know, its clearly you are just trying to get under people's skin.

1. Good job completely dismissing the point I was making. I'll just assume that means you had no counterpoint.

2. Whether I like Palpatine or not has nothing to do with it. (I actually do like his character) The point is putting him in this game is foolish. (It's already dumb that a bunch of nobodies can defeat Vader and apparently the Rebels had a jedi all along.. but that is besides the point.) And yes you are being just as 'greedy' as us. In fact you might even be more so. You want an expansion that clearly people are against. How is it greedy for us to rather have FFG focus on other parts of Star Wars? I'm sure I could just as easily say I want a character from Star Wars that you hate to be in IA. Believe me, there will be a character in Star Wars you hate... EU or not.

3. Your chocolate analogy... do you even remember what you posted? And no one knows how he's going to be obviously.

4. You are the one overreacting. Not once did any of us say it'd be the end of the world nor even say we'd stop playing the game. Heck, I don't think any of us even said we'd skip an expansion with Palpatine in it... we've just said we don't want him in it.

5. Maybe you should re-watch Return of the Jedi first before stating false facts. Luke literally TOSSES AWAY HIS LIGHTSABER. That's not getting caught off guard.

6. I have no idea what you even mean here...

7. You must have a trouble understanding rank. General (the highest rank we get in combat so far) is nowhere near as high as EMPEROR OF THE GALAXY. Palpatine is the most powerful person in the galaxy and I don't mean strength/combat wise. But I do agree that even Generals shouldn't be in IA (just make them a lower rank)... but that is a different argument.

No i cant stop it. You really make me laugh. Either i do or I do not. Theres no try.

1. You completly dismissed mine so were even. Ill assume you didnt had any point to make.

2. I dont care if you like it or not. Why its dumb a bunch of nobodies can defeat Vader???? I find it amusing. Again its just a game (where things are somewhat balanced so that fun is a priority) for guys to have fun. Like I wrote in my previous post you guys take this too serious. 3 guys against the idea of having a Palpatine fig is hardly "clearly people are against" and to add insult to injury Im being "greedy"... are you sure you know the meaning of that word? I never said I want an expansion... I said I want a figure in some way. The way you write seems like FFG only have one IA game designer in part-time... Who are you to think that I have a character I hate in SW? Its a game... whatever character you think I hate Im going just to say that I dont like it but Im not going to be selfish and greedy to the point of not allowing those who like him to not having them in their game. Im not a love or hate kind of guy.. specially in a game.

3. I do and you?

4. Read again then the posts of some of the "against" faction... he even wrote that if I wanted him to skip a year or so of IA (not going to bother to look who was).

5. Luke literally TOSSES AWAY HIS LIGHTSABER... while saying to the Emperor "Ill never take the dark side. You failed your highness. Im a Jedi like my father before me." Again dont be deceitful trying to trick those who dont know. And read the novelization of the movie to help you interpret the onscreen non-dialogue action.

6. LOL.... ok. You wrote that Palpatine doesnt need to barge in and start zaping the heroes... and I wrote that you should write the other way around. Heroes barge in and zap Palpatine... Yeah youre going to say its out of flavor... or whatever.

7. Dont let a Sith Lord read your comment because if he does hes going to show you how high in rank is a Sith Lord compared to a General.

You guys think so small in a game. Now even a General cant be represented in a game. Its sad.

I'm beginning to question whether you are even putting any thought behind your responses... I'm leaning towards 'no' and that you are just saying random words at this point... anything to just ignore the discussion and not agree with us. I could bring up perfect counter points and you'd just reply with 'don't be greedy'.

(PS. Sith Lords aren't real. They can't read our comments.)

Of course we are thinking small. Its a small scale game. No AT-ATs, no greater Krayt Dragons, and no archmages.

Also another counterpoint against including the Emperor. Lets say he is included in the next expansion and the finale has you defeat him. Now what? The death/capture of the Emperor would make the Empire crumble. The entire faction revolves around him. In case you aren't aware of the EU, that is what happens at the end of Return of the Jedi. The Empire fractures, infighting everywhere because everyone with a rank higher than janitor wants to be the new Emperor. Heck, already the Emperor has people plotting against him (even DARTH VADER) when he is alive and well.

Ok, so that can't happen because then the movies wouldn't happen (which IA runs parallel to) I guess the Emperor just runs away then? Well that is pretty lame for the hero players. All that hard work and all they get is a 'thanks for trying' medal.

And then, what incentive is there to play future campaigns? The one with Palpatine would have you fight the most powerful person in the galaxy. There is no greater threat than him. Without including the Emperor in IA, there is always a greater threat/target across the horizon.

Were just talking about the movies (and respective timeline... your problem not mine). Nothing else.

With that in mind what are the heroes doing then? Wasting time doing pointless campaigns because we already know how/when it ends (and who)... BAH! (thats precisely what are they going to get thinking like that - a 'thanks for trying' medal).

Never wrote that the players have to face Palpatine as a end game campaign. As long as theres will theres incentive to play other campaigns (better yet... start the "same" campaign with other mix of heroes and try different options).

So.. tell me what other "greater threat/target across the horizon" are not counting Palpatine????

Also another counterpoint against including the Emperor. Lets say he is included in the next expansion and the finale has you defeat him. Now what? The death/capture of the Emperor would make the Empire crumble. The entire faction revolves around him. In case you aren't aware of the EU, that is what happens at the end of Return of the Jedi. The Empire fractures, infighting everywhere because everyone with a rank higher than janitor wants to be the new Emperor. Heck, already the Emperor has people plotting against him (even DARTH VADER) when he is alive and well.

Ok, so that can't happen because then the movies wouldn't happen (which IA runs parallel to) I guess the Emperor just runs away then? Well that is pretty lame for the hero players. All that hard work and all they get is a 'thanks for trying' medal.

And then, what incentive is there to play future campaigns? The one with Palpatine would have you fight the most powerful person in the galaxy. There is no greater threat than him. Without including the Emperor in IA, there is always a greater threat/target across the horizon.

Were just talking about the movies (and respective timeline... your problem not mine). Nothing else.

With that in mind what are the heroes doing then? Wasting time doing pointless campaigns because we already know how/when it ends (and who)... BAH! (thats precisely what are they going to get thinking like that - a 'thanks for trying' medal).

Never wrote that the players have to face Palpatine as a end game campaign. As long as theres will theres incentive to play other campaigns (better yet... start the "same" campaign with other mix of heroes and try different options).

So.. tell me what other "greater threat/target across the horizon" are not counting Palpatine????

I seriously think you're playing the wrong game then. Try Star Wars Minis. It has the exact "devil may care" "lets fry some ewoks" attitude you're looking for.

If you don't care about the movies or the story, why are you even bothering with Star Wars at all? There's lots of mini games that are not steeped in 40 years of much loved lore.

Having the Emperor in this game would be similar to allowing the use of an Imperator class Titan in a game of Space Hulk.

Yes, it exists in the universe. Does it fit thematically? No, it does not.

Its a matter of *scale. The emperor does not fit in a game about a small group of rebels enacting hit and run missions against the empire. His addition would be, essentially, jumping the shark.

The *only* way I could see it being implemented reasonably, is the same way they did with heroclix Galactus. Simply point cost him outside any possible use in any tournament, and not writing him into a campaign. Sith fanboys get their old man fix, and nobody has to take it seriously.

Another nonsense comment.

Its not a Titan in Space Hulk (that would make sense talking about a Death Star in IA) and its not Galactus in Heroclix (that would make sense talking about a Sith god or whatever in IA).

The emperor fits (as an example) if that group of rebels wants to destroy the shield generator in a moon around a planet where happens to be a empire station orbiting... oh wait...

I find you guys amusing... One figure is forbidden to exist just because youre afraid of whats going to be... if ever...

I'll stifle the smartass comeback for your benefit.

I'm afraid you've missed my point. You do understand the idea of scale and theme I am trying to express here, right? Can you give me an example of a comparable power level thing in another mythology (since you didn't like mine).

Imagine you're playing Dungeons and Dragons and your adventure for level 3 characters (four fighters/rogues in this case) ends with you fighting Elminster (or Halaster, if you know who that is).

Imagine you're watching a cop show like Law and Order or CSI and at the end Magneto shows up and murders the crap out of *everybody.

If there were an instance with a shield generator, we already know who took out the Death Star II generator and where the Emperor was at that time, so you can't be referring to that incident. Imperial Assault isn't Star Wars minis, it works within established timeline. I can't imagine the emperor sitting in guard duty on a tertiary shield generator on a secondary space station when he really needs to be busy ruling the universe.

So we can talk apples to apples, who would you compare Palpatine to in another setting?

It wasnt a smartass comment. It made no sense your comment.

Exactly my point... scale. The ruler of a space empire (that doesnt control all the galaxy) its not a god (or demi-god) which is what youre implying by comparing to Galactus (or Elmister or Halaster - whatever). The Roman Emperors tought that also...

I played a lot of D&D - all versions until 4th (and most of other RPGs for that matter - have you ever played Shadowrun? Mechwarrior? Vampire? D6 Star Wars? Earthdawn? ) to know that youre tricking those who dont know to fall on your trap. Tell me why in IA a level 3 rebel group fights a demi-god/god??? Who told you that in IA that group is going to fight that guy???. This isnt D&D... you dont have levels.

You guys love to make stuff up just to try to prove that one character shouldnt be in the game... A game!

Now even crossovers are fair game to try that... Law & Order/CSI and Magneto!?!?!? BWAHAHAH. Dont go there...

I was joking with that scenario but you guys take this too serious... Im not IA game designer.

Skirmish games dont have a timeline and campaign games have the timeline that players choose to have. FFG doesnt force you to follow the timeline.... if thats important even.

Why bother comparing? Any setting that i could write you would counter by pointing that isnt the samething so...

I will try again, because I am patient.

Scale. The ruler of the empire has much better things to do than get in punch-UPS with third string would be heroes (the characters in the game). The emperor I also a powerful wizard, that's why I compare him to Elminster or Halaster. When an old man in dark robes shows up and starts tossing lightning around, that's a wizard, and this one happens to be the most powerful wizard in the entire universe. The impression I am getting from you is you think Palpatine is *far weaker than I do. That's why I was asking for a power level example. Roman emperors were not packing mind control and lightning bolts. The emperor is a *bit tougher than that, you mist admit!

The point I was trying to make with the crossover is to make a jarring juxtaposition. Imperial Assault is a game about a small group of rebels trying to fight the empire. These rebels are not powerful. They are actually quite frail and firmly grounded in our gritty squad based Sci-fi. Palpatine does not fit in our gritty warfare game any more than Magneto fits in a real world based procedural drama.

Honestly I'm not trying to prove one character shouldn't be in the game. I'm excluding an *entire class of people*, Palpatine is just the brightest example of that.

You've played DnD, and that's good. That means I can talk about it and have you understand what I'm saying. You are aware of the "Linear Fighter, quadratic Wizard" problem. Basically wizards get all the cool powers. In this game, the players are all analogues of nonmagic using classes. There is no way in hell they should be *able to beat a well prepared wizard. The only counter is the players get magic too, but that mucks with the canon. Diala existence takes established canon and shakes it in its teeth already. I am wiling to forgive the existence of one rogue force sensitive, but if they add more, and the players turn into space-wizard-ninja Jedi, then that mucks with the theme they already have established of a sci-fi squad combat game set in the Star Wars universe.

I understand you are a big fan of skirmish, and that's your cup of tea, but if Palpatine is as powerful as he's supposed to be, if the Jedi are as powerful as they should be, then the whole thing devolves into "the best piece vs the best piece" and that's *already a problem in the tourneys. It just changes from 4x4 and reb sabs, to "wizard>fighter"

No its not... Scale again. A guy in robes tossing around lightning bolts is on the same scale of a couple of well trained and armed guys going all medievil on him. Your comparison in the previous post was a level 3 group against a demi-god. I never wrote that the heroes should hunt for Palpatine let alone as soon as a campaign starts (which was what you did).

"Roman emperors were not packing mind control and lightning bolts." Neither his enemies... same scale right?

Palpatine isnt the most powerful being and im not thinking hes much weaker than you think he is (on the other hand he was thrown into a bottomless pit by a one-handed defeated Sith Lord... mmm... maybe Yoda was a coward afterall).

Sure you can talk about D&D. I played a Barbarian most of the times (Rogue is the other class I played). But Im not sure if I agree with you because up until half way (lets say level 10) warriors were better than magic users. After level 10 it was the other way around.

Then youre going to have a heart attack if you see Star Wars Rebels... you have not one not two but three force sensitive/users (Ashoka is back and Ezra and Kaanan). And im not going to talk about Inquisitors... whoops... I did. And have a hunch that several more are going to show up in comics and books.

You think that Diala is the only force sensitive character FFG is going to do in IA??? I dont think so... give them time. If I like the space-wizard-ninja Jedi theme why not? Ill let you know when/if that happens.

Youre wrong. I bought and play IA for the campaign mode (and to have fun with friends). Dont like skirmish because of that (and its a money sink to play at tourneys).

I have never once said how you should play the game, I've said how I play the game and how adding Palpatine would harm that.

Yes you did. Not directly but in refusing to have a particular figure as an option...

Its such a difficult concept to understand?

I have tried to explain multiple times that I'm not doing that.

I'm saying why I think he would make some of my games of IA less enjoyable; if FFG does make Palpatine I will sigh a little then probably buy the expansion (assuming he's not just a figure pack which I still find wildly unlikely) anyway because there will be other stuff that I'll enjoy then sigh a little again whenever he turns up in the campaign.

To sum up the situation:

I want my games of IA to be immersive and feel Palpatine would break that. Thus I don't want him to be added to the game.

You want to be able to emulate any scenario you can think of and Palpatine is required for that. Thus you want him to be added to the game.

It's kind of like two people supporting different sides of a sports match; If either of us gets what we want it will result in disappointment for the other.

I dont see how he would make your IA games less enjoyable... you dont know yet what hes going to do and how...

Of course he can only be a figure pack. All the other main characters are. And all of them as allies. And would please the skirmish guys that also want it. So I dont see the problem at all.

I'm beginning to question whether you are even putting any thought behind your responses... I'm leaning towards 'no' and that you are just saying random words at this point... anything to just ignore the discussion and not agree with us. I could bring up perfect counter points and you'd just reply with 'don't be greedy'.

(PS. Sith Lords aren't real. They can't read our comments.)

So bring those perfect counter points... the only one ive read is the difficulty to properly balance Palpatine ruleswise (which is IA game designers job not ours) but the same could be said about Vader... yet we have him in the game. Everything else is nonsense.

P.S. Dont be silly. If you think Generals shouldnt be in the game than you must say the same about Vader which if you think about that a bit more and soon after youre telling that about half of the characters of Star Wars shouldnt be in the game. Its silly.

I dont see how he would make your IA games less enjoyable... you dont know yet what hes going to do and how...

Of course he can only be a figure pack. All the other main characters are. And all of them as allies. And would please the skirmish guys that also want it. So I dont see the problem at all.

First point: I would find him immersion breaking regardless of his actual mechanics, I and others have already explained why.

Second point: No, no they aren't, no unique figure has been released yet that doesn't appear in a mission in an expansion (as opposed to figure pack) (in fact every villain thus far appears in a 'story' mission for one of the campaigns).

Of course we are thinking small. Its a small scale game. No AT-ATs, no greater Krayt Dragons, and no archmages.

Yeah... right. AT-STs should be banned. And tanks should be forbidden... errr.. wait...

I dont see how he would make your IA games less enjoyable... you dont know yet what hes going to do and how...

Of course he can only be a figure pack. All the other main characters are. And all of them as allies. And would please the skirmish guys that also want it. So I dont see the problem at all.

First point: I would find him immersion breaking regardless of his actual mechanics, I and others have already explained why.

Second point: No, no they aren't, no unique figure has been released yet that doesn't appear in a mission in an expansion (as opposed to figure pack) (in fact every villain thus far appears in a 'story' mission for one of the campaigns).

First point: Back to the beginning then... you (and the others) take this too serious.

Second point: You dont know how FFG will do his story mission. Maybe youre gonna be surprised.

Ill write again... its a game that you as a player can choose when/how/what to play. As soon as you say "i dont want X to exist in the game" youre saying that all players cant have X in the game (I call this being selfish) while Im saying "bring X into the game and let players choose if they will use it or not". And im called greedy... interesting...

Free will/choice is called greed now. Enough said.

First point: Back to the beginning then... you take this too serious.

I'm playing the game the way I enjoy.

EDIT in light of yours: Based on what FFG has done thus far with the game "bring X into the game and let players choose if they will use it or not" is not something they intend on doing for unique characters.If they released Palpatine as only a figure pack I wouldn't mind but I don't think that's the option they'll take.

I seriously think you're playing the wrong game then. Try Star Wars Minis. It has the exact "devil may care" "lets fry some ewoks" attitude you're looking for.

If you don't care about the movies or the story, why are you even bothering with Star Wars at all? There's lots of mini games that are not steeped in 40 years of much loved lore.

My problem not yours.

What 40 years of much loved lore!?!? Havent you read the news? All things except the movies, Clone Wars, Rebels and someother stuff were dumped into Legends. Bye bye to the much loved lore.

First point: Back to the beginning then... you take this too serious.

I'm playing the game the way I enjoy.

EDIT in light of yours: Based on what FFG has done thus far with the game "bring X into the game and let players choose if they will use it or not" is not something they intend on doing for unique characters.If they released Palpatine as only a figure pack I wouldn't mind but I don't think that's the option they'll take.

Good for you. Im also playing the way I enjoy... minus a couple of figs but I expect that to change soon... I hope...

I dont care how they do it. Ill decide at that time when it comes to that to judge if I like it and use it or if its just going to be a pretty figure.

See, in my experience, when people say things like "enough said" its because they really dont have an argument and are just trying to shut the other side up.

Rebels is Disney continuity. That doesn't count. I'm talking about original Star Wars. Disney can burn for what they did. They **** on the fans, and for that they can burn. And yes, once they are done putting out packs for the original trilogy, provided they skip over thinks like Dark Forces and Shadows of the Empire, I will stop buying the pieces. The game will be complete. I said forty years of much loved lore and I friggin meant it. **cue Firefly themesong**

Secondly, Palpatine is not a main character. Finn is a main character. Gharkaan is a main character. Palpatine is what we call "supporting cast". In Imperial Assault, Luke Skywalker and Han Solo are also supporting cast. Your confusing "I want to play the movies" with "I want to play IA"

Yes, I'm saying having Vader in the game is bad, but palatable. As the Emperor's personal attack dog, he's less important than, say, a Grand Moff. At least his *job is to "kill things real good". Vader suffers from overmerchandising and overexposure, but in the end he's nothing more than a high level thug. The "Black Knight" working for the "Evil Wizard"

Again I think you're playing the wrong game. This is Imperial Assault, a small scale tactical minis game about a rag-tag group of rebels. This is not "Jedi Punch Out". If its any clearer, think Howling Commandos comics VS Justice League comics. Very different storytelling. Very different focus.

See, in my experience, when people say things like "enough said" its because they really dont have an argument and are just trying to shut the other side up.

Rebels is Disney continuity. That doesn't count. I'm talking about original Star Wars. Disney can burn for what they did. They **** on the fans, and for that they can burn. And yes, once they are done putting out packs for the original trilogy, provided they skip over thinks like Dark Forces and Shadows of the Empire, I will stop buying the pieces. The game will be complete.

Secondly, Palpatine is not a main character. Finn is a main character. Gharkaan is a main character. Palpatine is what we call "supporting cast". In Imperial Assault, Luke Skywalker and Han Solo are also supporting cast. Your confusing "I want to play the movies" with "I want to play IA"

Yes, I'm saying having Vader in the game is bad, but palatable. As the Emperor's personal attack dog, he's less important than, say, a Grand Moff. At least his *job is to "kill things real good". Vader suffers from overmerchandising and overexposure, but in the end he's nothing more than a high level thug. The "Black Knight" working for the "Evil Wizard"

Again I think you're playing the wrong game. This is Imperial Assault, a small scale tactical minis game about a rag-tag group of rebels. This is not "Jedi Punch Out". If its any clearer, thing Howling Commandos comics VS Justice League comics. Very different storytelling. Very different focus.

Best laugh I had! Youre not very good at those "experiences". When I wrote enough said it was a way to write that theres not much point in trying to argue what can only be discussed objectively when/if FFG makes a Palpatine figure... nothing less nothing more. Both sides made clear each one points.

So youre one of those guys that calls Disney heretics!? Interesting. Rebels doesnt count because its... Disney. I would like to see your face when FFG comes up with something Rebels (or anything made by Disney) related for IA... you should pray everyday that they delay that I guess.

And also youre going to stop buying?!?! ****... i find your lack of faith disturbing.

Careful there... Finn is a Disney thing. No Im not. I want to play IA the way I want not the way you want or you think everyone else should play...

Now even Vader is bad, but palatable (and as a bonus is a high level thug). Funny.. I think youre playing the wrong game. You should play Advanced Squad Leader. No high ranking officers are present to bother your palate.

This is Imperial Assault, a small scale tactical minis game about a rag-tag group of rebels in that in true space opera spirit can do miraculous things and get away with it.

Its STAR WARS !

I've played Advanced Squad Leader. Its wonderful. I've not played it in years, so thank you for reminding me.

And I think "heretics" pretty much sums up my opinion. Also "money grubbing soulless corporate hacks" is applicable.

FFG has shown wonderful restraint with regard to Imperial Assault and the heretic takeover, if you look at the pieces they have put out. They dont seem to be rushing to get to the prequel stuff either. If/when they stop making Star Wars expansions for the game and move on to the Disney parody stuff, I will move on as well. Simple as that. No hard feeling. I'm sure there's enough fair-weather fanboys out there to keep them selling.

Maybe *I'm playing the wrong game. Maybe Star Wars has been dead for years, and its just taken this long for the body to stop moving.

Maybe I'm getting dissolutioned in my old age

I've played Advanced Squad Leader. Its wonderful. I've not played it in years, so thank you for reminding me.

And I think "heretics" pretty much sums up my opinion. Also "money grubbing soulless corporate hacks" is applicable.

FFG has shown wonderful restraint with regard to Imperial Assault and the heretic takeover, if you look at the pieces they have put out. They dont seem to be rushing to get to the prequel stuff either. If/when they stop making Star Wars expansions for the game and move on to the Disney parody stuff, I will move on as well. Simple as that. No hard feeling. I'm sure there's enough fair-weather fanboys out there to keep them selling.

Maybe *I'm playing the wrong game. Maybe Star Wars has been dead for years, and its just taken this long for the body to stop moving.

Maybe I'm getting dissolutioned in my old age

No problem. I also think its a wonderful game and also havent played it in years (it was owned by a friend who moved to another city... mmm maybe ill buy one for me...).

You can call it "money grubbing soulless corporate hacks" but im sure you can say that about everything and everyone in corp business and dont be mistaken... we all know that even before Disney Star Wars was that with all the EU crap (either good or bad... lol and dont forget that was George Lucas who started the merchandising and cross promotion business around movies). We also know that FFG will do that sooner or later (first was Xwing which is easier to justify - I believe Armada is next). Its a business... they want/have to make money.

Ive embraced that a long time ago. I dont mind they make a bazillion things to the games that arent directly related that I like and still look into that stuff and buy it if I like it (you call it "fanboyism" I just call it accepting the reality or that im a collector completionist).

Maybe... but im sure I wont tell you that (im nobody to say what you should play and how... thats an argument some of you like to make that I think its rude). Not my problem and Im sure I wont tell you how do you should spend your gaming free time (and if you to talk about dead games then I still play Renegade Legion games - the best game system ever in my opinion of course).

Maybe im getting old by accepting the reality of the business models in this industry (maybe because I worked in it - as a lowly store manager - but anyway I did).

Make no mistake. Im not a fanboy. Im a gamer for sure (****... I even played magic... for 3 months but i did... lol).

Which brings us back to my point (because some didnt understand it yet).

Saying a gaming corp (like FFG) should never do this or that (either a particular character/figure/scenario/whatever) because "damages my gaming experience" is the most selfish thing a gamer can say to the others (and worse of all without knowing how/when/why its done).

Its judging someone without knowing the evidence. Just looking at him he knows how/when/why and sentences him to the death penalty (there goes free will/choice out of the window).

Its so hard to understand that theres someone (like me and others) that are willing to see the how/when/why before giving a judgement on how good or bad its done?

At this point we are just running around in circles and Kentares either refuses to accept logic or just can't comprehend it.

We've explained multiple times why Palpatine wouldn't work in IA and all you can manage to say is "don't be greedy."

At this point we are just running around in circles and Kentares either refuses to accept logic or just can't comprehend it.

We've explained multiple times why Palpatine wouldn't work in IA and all you can manage to say is "don't be greedy."

Youre the one running in circles while crying out loud "the end is near!"

I can write the same about you. You both refuse to accept logic AND cant just comprehend the opposing arguments about it.

Read again all my posts in this topic. Maybe on a second reading you get the point of my arguments.

Unwillingness to give me the benefit of doubt without hard evidence is very rude (to say the least).

At this point we are just running around in circles and Kentares either refuses to accept logic or just can't comprehend it.

We've explained multiple times why Palpatine wouldn't work in IA and all you can manage to say is "don't be greedy."

Youre the one running in circles while crying out loud "the end is near!"

I can write the same about you. You both refuse to accept logic AND cant just comprehend the opposing arguments about it.

Read again all my posts in this topic. Maybe on a second reading you get the point of my arguments.

Unwillingness to give me the benefit of doubt without hard evidence is very rude (to say the least).

Funny, I don't remember ever claiming 'the end is near'. Let me check.

Hm... nope, never said it. Quit exaggerating.

At this point we are just running around in circles and Kentares either refuses to accept logic or just can't comprehend it.

We've explained multiple times why Palpatine wouldn't work in IA and all you can manage to say is "don't be greedy."

Youre the one running in circles while crying out loud "the end is near!"

I can write the same about you. You both refuse to accept logic AND cant just comprehend the opposing arguments about it.

Read again all my posts in this topic. Maybe on a second reading you get the point of my arguments.

Unwillingness to give me the benefit of doubt without hard evidence is very rude (to say the least).

Funny, I don't remember ever claiming 'the end is near'. Let me check.

Hm... nope, never said it. Quit exaggerating.

Quit saying nonsense like the one that I refuse to accept YOUR logic AND cant just comprehend the opposing arguments about it.

I can write the same about you (and much more justified if I did).

You arent very good with metaphors right?

Let me help you https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor

Holy crap there's enough salt here to give me high blood pressure. Wow! It's getting pretty hard to dive through the murky depths of insults and accusations, so could someone kindly lay out the main viewpoints on "Should Palpatine be a figure?" in a hopefully non opinionated manner?