Do we really care all that much about flavor? You could 'ban' almost all of the skirmish missions on those grounds.

Speaking for myself, absolutely.

Palpatine is awesome not because he shoots lightning from his fingers but because he convinced the galaxy to hand itself to him, he has better things to do than pick fights with insignificant insurgents. I honestly feel including him here only undermines him.

Well it is apparent that any of you who says that it would be silly to see Palpatine running around and killing creatures or rebels have clearly not read the pretty interesting and on top of that "canon" book: "Lords of the Sith". In this book a big part of it told the story of Vader and Palpatine running around in a jungle with pair of Royal guards, finding their way after an emergency crash landing.Taking on legions upon legions of a vicious kind of Apex predator and they even wind up in the Queen nest at some point. Palpatine is utterly badass and both him and Vader fights like madmen against the endless hordes of creatures. So after reading that... Well I can certainly see Palpatine fit in the campaign and definitely in a skirmish! They wil obviously put him in this game and he clearly belongs in it too!

Being cannon doesn't make something not silly

Well maybe it is for you but for a whole lot of other player it is not. For me the scenario in lords if the sith, can be completely replicated in this game in either a campaign or skirmish and that6is pretty cool. Palpatine with Vader flanked by 2 RG, in a jungles map that needs to find their way out of a crash landing and there is a Rebel search party looking for them, mixed with Jungle creatures like the Elite Nexu... I am definitely going to create that scenario or simply recommend it to FFG as a skirmish mission when they will come out with his expansion!

It made me laugh (hard) some of you worrying about flavor-wise (that IS silly guys) in a miniatures table top game about a film franchise. Getting Emperor as a figure is another option like all the other figures. If you like the idea buy it and use it if you dont dont buy it... easy.

Several reasons why we should have any figure (even if it displeases some of you):

- Its a figure (for completeness - in my case the Emperor would be very cool).

- For custom made Campaigns

- For skirmish games (and tourneys of course - maybe a bit difficult to balance ruleswise but...)

- For the painting masters out there

- Recreate the Revenge of the Sith duel between Yoda and Palpatine (maybe Yoda wins and theres no need to hide the twins and turn Anakin into robocop )

It made me laugh (hard) some of you worrying about flavor-wise (its silly guys) in a miniatures table top game about a film franchise. Getting Emperor as a figure is another option like all the other figures. If you like the idea buy it and use it if you dont dont buy it... easy.

Unfortunately this isn't actually the case (well, not without undesireable consequences); if he appears in a campaign then anyone who'd rather not have him involved needs to skip that entire campaign (as noted earlier skirmish is not the main focus of FFG so a skirmish only version is wildly unlikely).

The thing I'm not sure some of you get: those of us who don't want Palpatine aren't nitpicking or trying to spoil your fun, a campaign involving him will be less enjoyable for us than it would be without him and we're voicing that opinion (as is the purpose of a forum).

Another factor that I don't like about including Palpatine is he's hard to fit in mechanically:

• He's a frail old man but he needs to be resilient
• Force lightning, his signature combat ability, is already covered by a command card, do you really want him to have a gimped version?
• He's a leader, but it just feels wrong to put support abilities on a sith

It's not insurmountable but there are a lot of obstacles to making an interesting miniature based on him.

Just can't let sleeping dogs lie can we?

Anyways, the evidence is pretty clear. 1. The core set came with many campaign maps and a measly 3 skirmish maps (2 of which were from the bonus vader and luke set) and so far every box expansion has had more campaign missions as opposed to skirmish missions.

2. Villain packs focusing (almost) solely on unique figures. Instead of being able to buy a pack of trandoshans or royal guards (like a normal miniatures game would let you) you have to buy a whole new core set and get all that extra baggage.

3. The tokens not legal in skirmish tournaments. If this game were focused on skirmish, you wouldn't have to buy a separate villain pack just to use Han Solo and etc. in a tournament.

1. Campaign mode is about going through different maps, it's a story. Skirmish isn't.

2. Well of course there are more unique packs than generic packs, that's the nature of being generic. It's true some figures currently aren't available outside the big boxes, which is annoying, though I expect them to be released in the future, they've already done normal stormies.

3. It's not focused on skirmish because you have to buy lots of expansions? You must not play X-Wing.

Also, there are ten Villain packs listed on https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/star-wars-imperial-assault/of which three are generics. 70% isn't "almost exclusively".

Just can't let sleeping dogs lie can we?

Anyways, the evidence is pretty clear. 1. The core set came with many campaign maps and a measly 3 skirmish maps (2 of which were from the bonus vader and luke set) and so far every box expansion has had more campaign missions as opposed to skirmish missions.

2. Villain packs focusing (almost) solely on unique figures. Instead of being able to buy a pack of trandoshans or royal guards (like a normal miniatures game would let you) you have to buy a whole new core set and get all that extra baggage.

3. The tokens not legal in skirmish tournaments. If this game were focused on skirmish, you wouldn't have to buy a separate villain pack just to use Han Solo and etc. in a tournament.

1. Campaign mode is about going through different maps, it's a story. Skirmish isn't.

2. Well of course there are more unique packs than generic packs, that's the nature of being generic. It's true some figures currently aren't available outside the big boxes, which is annoying, though I expect them to be released in the future, they've already done normal stormies.

3. It's not focused on skirmish because you have to buy lots of expansions? You must not play X-Wing.

1. And that excuses the lack of skirmish maps, how?

2. 'Some'? More like most. So far the only way to get more royal guards, imperial officers, nexu, probe droids, trandoshan hunters, Heavy Stormtroopers, Tusken Raiders, e-web engineers, etc... in fact the only imperial generic units you can get FROM villian packs are stormies. If the game were focused on skirmish don't you think it'd be alot easier/convenient to make your dream team instead of having to buy extras on E-bay?

3.I didn't know X-wing had a story/campaign mode.

You're welcome to hope/wish this game is centered around skirmish. Just be prepared to be dissapointed.

It made me laugh (hard) some of you worrying about flavor-wise (that IS silly guys) in a miniatures table top game about a film franchise. Getting Emperor as a figure is another option like all the other figures. If you like the idea buy it and use it if you dont dont buy it... easy.

Several reasons why we should have any figure (even if it displeases some of you):

- Its a figure (for completeness - in my case the Emperor would be very cool).

- For custom made Campaigns

- For skirmish games (and tourneys of course - maybe a bit difficult to balance ruleswise but...)

- For the painting masters out there

- Recreate the Revenge of the Sith duel between Yoda and Palpatine (maybe Yoda wins and theres no need to hide the twins and turn Anakin into robocop )

Its silly to care about the story? That is the whole POINT of the campaign, to tell a story. Thats like saying "watch star wars but only pay attention to the explosions." You say 'if you don't want him, don't buy him'... so I should skip an entire expansion box (that we pretty much get 1-2 a year.) just because some fanboys wanted Palpatine?

It made me laugh (hard) some of you worrying about flavor-wise (its silly guys) in a miniatures table top game about a film franchise. Getting Emperor as a figure is another option like all the other figures. If you like the idea buy it and use it if you dont dont buy it... easy.

Unfortunately this isn't actually the case (well, not without undesireable consequences); if he appears in a campaign then anyone who'd rather not have him involved needs to skip that entire campaign (as noted earlier skirmish is not the main focus of FFG so a skirmish only version is wildly unlikely).

The thing I'm not sure some of you get: those of us who don't want Palpatine aren't nitpicking or trying to spoil your fun, a campaign involving him will be less enjoyable for us than it would be without him and we're voicing that opinion (as is the purpose of a forum).

Another factor that I don't like about including Palpatine is he's hard to fit in mechanically:

• He's a frail old man but he needs to be resilient
• Force lightning, his signature combat ability, is already covered by a command card, do you really want him to have a gimped version?
• He's a leader, but it just feels wrong to put support abilities on a sith

It's not insurmountable but there are a lot of obstacles to making an interesting miniature based on him.

Yes youre doing both (nitpicking and spoil the fun). Without knowing how a campaign (and to smooth your fears he can have different mechanics for Skirmish and Campaign modes) would be with him and without knowing how he would be done (ruleswise) youre already assuming it would be less enjoyable for you... thats more than nitpicking... youre already saying its the end of the world.

About Skirmish mode not being the main FFG business for IA made me laugh hard again. They even made a worlds championship for it... no company organizes tourneys without the intention of making money out of it.

Being hard to fit in mechanically is game designers job to do it properly. Theyre paid for that. Let them worry about that.

- Frail old man!? You made me laugh hard again. Again were talking about a game and options but ill indulge in your point of view and say: A Sith Master that defeats (for all intents and purposes) the best Jedi Master and lives to tell I refuse to call him a "frail old man" (and force lightning a Jedi knight - after the same Jedi Knight defeated his best warrior).

- Norgrath... man... decide from what viewpoint you want to try justify your claim for not having a figure of Palpatine in the game... first was the flavor one (see Frail old man) and now you talk about game mechanics. Again Force Lightning isnt the only thing Palpatine can do. He also can fight with a lightsaber, use Force Throw (or whatever you want to call to hurling stuff to Yoda and is a master (maybe his best... quality) of treachery and deceit (and im only using the movies as a guide).

- Back to flavor then... lets go again then... Being a leader is precisely what is right about getting support skills in him being a sith or not. In fact looking at the movies is what he does best and fits just right in him having support skills (or barking orders if you wish - look at Maul, Dooku, Grievous - all of them acted on Palpatine orders and support - either directly or indirectly).

Dont see any obstacle... maybe i need glasses.

...in fact the only imperial generic units you can get FROM villian packs are stories....

Not quite true, you can get a generic AT-ST from general weiss villain pack simply by not adding on the massive guns.

It made me laugh (hard) some of you worrying about flavor-wise (that IS silly guys) in a miniatures table top game about a film franchise. Getting Emperor as a figure is another option like all the other figures. If you like the idea buy it and use it if you dont dont buy it... easy.

Several reasons why we should have any figure (even if it displeases some of you):

- Its a figure (for completeness - in my case the Emperor would be very cool).

- For custom made Campaigns

- For skirmish games (and tourneys of course - maybe a bit difficult to balance ruleswise but...)

- For the painting masters out there

- Recreate the Revenge of the Sith duel between Yoda and Palpatine (maybe Yoda wins and theres no need to hide the twins and turn Anakin into robocop )

Its silly to care about the story? That is the whole POINT of the campaign, to tell a story. Thats like saying "watch star wars but only pay attention to the explosions." You say 'if you don't want him, don't buy him'... so I should skip an entire expansion box (that we pretty much get 1-2 a year.) just because some fanboys wanted Palpatine?

Ill write again in case you missed.

Yes its silly because its a board game. The whole POINT of a board game is to have fun and not to worry about why Palpatine (or any other figure for that matter) is on the table because you dont want it or if it fits the story (who told you he cant fit in the story? just because you think that? - i think the opposite).

You guys have a selfish view about a table top game by not giving other players choice in their games (since you dont think he deserves to be a figure then no one else can). Let the players worry about the whole POINT of the story/campaign and what fits or doesnt fit their tastes (i bet there are players that had a moment to be long remembered when they played against Vader - why not Palpatine? - and survived for example - thats a good story).

Thats like saying I dont like chocolate so no one else can like it/ eat it.

Ill write again... I want a Palpatine (or Jabba or a Mynock or a Sarlacc or... should I go on?) figure for completeness sake. If im a fanboy or not of Palpatine its my problem not yours (same with explosions - i love spending a good hour just watching ships blowing up in the movies).

Calling Game Police...

1. And that excuses the lack of skirmish maps, how?

2. 'Some'? More like most. So far the only way to get more royal guards, imperial officers, nexu, probe droids, trandoshan hunters, Heavy Stormtroopers, Tusken Raiders, e-web engineers, etc... in fact the only imperial generic units you can get FROM villian packs are stormies. If the game were focused on skirmish don't you think it'd be alot easier/convenient to make your dream team instead of having to buy extras on E-bay?

3.I didn't know X-wing had a story/campaign mode.

You're welcome to hope/wish this game is centered around skirmish. Just be prepared to be dissapointed.

1. Huh? That is the excuse (if you want to call it that)! There isn't as much need for lots of Skirmish maps because a Skirmish game doesn't suffer from being on a map you've already used like a Campaign game would. To make an analogy: PC games that are openly focused on the multi-player mode but have perfunctory single-player campaigns still have more maps for the single-player than for the multi-player because that's the nature of the systems: single-player needs lots of maps, multi-player doesn't (as much), the same applies to Campaign and Skirmish. Furthermore, the expansions all come with skirmish maps, yet you choose to focus solely on the big boxes.

2. I agree, I'd like them to release those figures as expansions. It'd be nice if you didn't have to buy a Raider to get the TIE Advanced fix too, but that doesn't mean X-Wing is focused on Epic at the expense of Standard.

3. I think you actually know what point I was making, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and explain it anyway: the fact that you need to buy lots of expansions does not mean it's something FFG don't take seriously; it's completely normal in their games for you to have a great incentive to buy lots of expansions, X-Wing being a perfect example.

I don't care what their focus is, I'm happy with the game as it is (though I would like the missing expansions we've talked about), I just happen to disagree with you. It's not wishful thinking, I just don't think your evidence and your claimed insight into the minds of other people are convincing.

You guys have a selfish view about a table top game by not giving other players choice in their games (since you dont think he deserves to be a figure then no one else can). Let the players worry about the whole POINT of the story/campaign and what fits or doesnt fit their tastes (i bet there are players that had a moment to be long remembered when they played against Vader - why not Palpatine? - and survived for example - thats a good story).

Thats like saying I dont like chocolate so no one else can like it/ eat it.

Ill write again... I want a Palpatine (or Jabba or a Mynock or a Sarlacc or... should I go on?) figure for completeness sake. If im a fanboy or not of Palpatine its my problem not yours (same with explosions - i love spending a good hour just watching ships blowing up in the movies).

Calling Game Police...

This is simply untrue (or not any more true for us than you) this is a forum, it's a place for people to voice their opinions, Patrick, Sam and I would find parts of the game less enjoyable were Palpatine added and we're saying that and why.

For some people a board game can be a fairly immersive experience which would be damaged by the inclusion of Palpatine.

Ultimately FFG will take the game where they want (or where they think it will sell best) and some of us will get what they want and some won't).

Backtracking to stuff in your other post:

My assertion that FFG is more focused on the campaign is based on several things:

• The fact that skirmish was initially so poorly balanced (It shouldn't have taken much playtesting to find that 4x4 was degeneratively good)
• Pre-release there were twice as many articles based around campaign as skirmish (and the campaign ones came first)
• Talking with my LGS owner he observed that, despite a thriving magic tournament scene in the city, most of his money came from people buying cards casually (It seems very likely that, with one inherently 'casual' mode, this would still be the case in IA) (This also rebuts your point about "they wouldn't have worlds if they were focused on campaign" (yes I know I'm paraphrasing but of course they intend on making money out of both).)

I think both mechanics and flavor are problems with including Palpatine, they're intertwined because the mechanics of a figure are based on its flavor. Would you be happy if they included him in the game and he had effectively the same card as Vader? I've seen multiple fan attempts to design a card for him and none felt right; the reason for that is it's difficult to capture the feel of an 86 year old man with no armor wielding almost godlike power in a balanced miniature, even if FFG think that Palpatine would be good for the game they don't want to do a half-arsed job of him.

About Skirmish mode not being the main FFG business for IA made me laugh hard again. They even made a worlds championship for it... no company organizes tourneys without the intention of making money out of it.

We all know the only reason the vestigial skirmish mode exists is to keep FFG from getting sued by Hasboro. The tournaments exist to prove its a tactical minis game, not the board game we know it actually is. Its a business decision. Skirmish is flying cover for Campaign, where the money is. If people are actually voluntarily playing skirmish *without enjoying the main product, that's just gravy for FFG.

It made me laugh (hard) some of you worrying about flavor-wise (that IS silly guys) in a miniatures table top game about a film franchise. Getting Emperor as a figure is another option like all the other figures. If you like the idea buy it and use it if you dont dont buy it... easy.

Several reasons why we should have any figure (even if it displeases some of you):

- Its a figure (for completeness - in my case the Emperor would be very cool).

- For custom made Campaigns

- For skirmish games (and tourneys of course - maybe a bit difficult to balance ruleswise but...)

- For the painting masters out there

- Recreate the Revenge of the Sith duel between Yoda and Palpatine (maybe Yoda wins and theres no need to hide the twins and turn Anakin into robocop )

Its silly to care about the story? That is the whole POINT of the campaign, to tell a story. Thats like saying "watch star wars but only pay attention to the explosions." You say 'if you don't want him, don't buy him'... so I should skip an entire expansion box (that we pretty much get 1-2 a year.) just because some fanboys wanted Palpatine?

Yes its silly because its a board game. The whole POINT of a board game is to have fun and not to worry about why Palpatine (or any other figure for that matter) is on the table because you dont want it or if it fits the story (who told you he cant fit in the story? just because you think that? - i think the opposite).

You guys have a selfish view about a table top game by not giving other players choice in their games (since you dont think he deserves to be a figure then no one else can). Let the players worry about the whole POINT of the story/campaign and what fits or doesnt fit their tastes (i bet there are players that had a moment to be long remembered when they played against Vader - why not Palpatine? - and survived for example - thats a good story).

Thats like saying I dont like chocolate so no one else can like it/ eat it.

Yes youre doing both (nitpicking and spoil the fun). Without knowing how a campaign (and to smooth your fears he can have different mechanics for Skirmish and Campaign modes) would be with him and without knowing how he would be done (ruleswise) youre already assuming it would be less enjoyable for you... thats more than nitpicking... youre already saying its the end of the world.

About Skirmish mode not being the main FFG business for IA made me laugh hard again. They even made a worlds championship for it... no company organizes tourneys without the intention of making money out of it.

Being hard to fit in mechanically is game designers job to do it properly. Theyre paid for that. Let them worry about that.

- Frail old man!? You made me laugh hard again. Again were talking about a game and options but ill indulge in your point of view and say: A Sith Master that defeats (for all intents and purposes) the best Jedi Master and lives to tell I refuse to call him a "frail old man" (and force lightning a Jedi knight - after the same Jedi Knight defeated his best warrior).

- Norgrath... man... decide from what viewpoint you want to try justify your claim for not having a figure of Palpatine in the game... first was the flavor one (see Frail old man) and now you talk about game mechanics. Again Force Lightning isnt the only thing Palpatine can do. He also can fight with a lightsaber, use Force Throw (or whatever you want to call to hurling stuff to Yoda and is a master (maybe his best... quality) of treachery and deceit (and im only using the movies as a guide).

- Back to flavor then... lets go again then... Being a leader is precisely what is right about getting support skills in him being a sith or not. In fact looking at the movies is what he does best and fits just right in him having support skills (or barking orders if you wish - look at Maul, Dooku, Grievous - all of them acted on Palpatine orders and support - either directly or indirectly).

Its cool, you make me laugh too.

Anyways...

1. Who are you to say what the point of a board game is? I don't see any rules or laws stating these facts... hell if I wanted to I could just buy the game and use it as a paperweight. My point being is that this game serves different purposes for different people. Some play it for the story, some play it for the action, and etc. For us having Palpatine as a playable villain greatly hurts the story.

2. We are being just as selfish as the Palpatine figure supporters. You say "just don't buy him" but it doesn't work like that. When/if Palpatine is released, it'll be in an expansion... perhaps an expansion the size of Twin Shadows, an expansion the size of Return to Hoth, or maybe even bigger. You are telling us NOT to buy one of these expansions.

3. That is a terrible analogy. If Palpatine is released he will be mandatory for the expansion he is in.

4. And you have no idea how fun or terrible a campaign with him would be either. So we are equal terms on this.

5. Palpatine vs Yoda was pretty much a draw. Yoda had to retreat due to reinforcements arriving. Also Yoda himself is an old (perhaps even older) man too. And Palpatine vs Luke was not a fight in the slightest. Luke was completely disarmed and didn't even try to fight or defend himself.

6. Yes, exactly. Palpatine is a master of treachery and deceit. He operates from the shadows. He doesn't barge in and start zapping the B-team (players) of rebels.

7. Again you just reiterated the point we are making. Palpatine is a LEADER. NOT A FIGHTER. He sends his apprentices to go do the dangerous stuff for him. Palpatine doesn't risk himself and charge headlong into battle. He schemes and sends his lapdogs (Maul, Dooku, Vader) to fight for him and eventually replace them with a new lapdog.

1. And that excuses the lack of skirmish maps, how?

2. 'Some'? More like most. So far the only way to get more royal guards, imperial officers, nexu, probe droids, trandoshan hunters, Heavy Stormtroopers, Tusken Raiders, e-web engineers, etc... in fact the only imperial generic units you can get FROM villian packs are stormies. If the game were focused on skirmish don't you think it'd be alot easier/convenient to make your dream team instead of having to buy extras on E-bay?

3.I didn't know X-wing had a story/campaign mode.

You're welcome to hope/wish this game is centered around skirmish. Just be prepared to be dissapointed.

1. Huh? That is the excuse (if you want to call it that)! There isn't as much need for lots of Skirmish maps because a Skirmish game doesn't suffer from being on a map you've already used like a Campaign game would. To make an analogy: PC games that are openly focused on the multi-player mode but have perfunctory single-player campaigns still have more maps for the single-player than for the multi-player because that's the nature of the systems: single-player needs lots of maps, multi-player doesn't (as much), the same applies to Campaign and Skirmish. Furthermore, the expansions all come with skirmish maps, yet you choose to focus solely on the big boxes.

2. I agree, I'd like them to release those figures as expansions. It'd be nice if you didn't have to buy a Raider to get the TIE Advanced fix too, but that doesn't mean X-Wing is focused on Epic at the expense of Standard.

3. I think you actually know what point I was making, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and explain it anyway: the fact that you need to buy lots of expansions does not mean it's something FFG don't take seriously; it's completely normal in their games for you to have a great incentive to buy lots of expansions, X-Wing being a perfect example.

I don't care what their focus is, I'm happy with the game as it is (though I would like the missing expansions we've talked about), I just happen to disagree with you. It's not wishful thinking, I just don't think your evidence and your claimed insight into the minds of other people are convincing.

1. Those villain/ally box expansions have just as many campaign maps as skirmish maps. And it goes both ways for your PC game analogy. I've seen video games more focused on multiplayer with a tacked on singleplayer.

3. So your analogy was flawed because X-wing doesn't have a story mode like IA does. It only has the one mode that is similar to IA's skirmish. Of course X-wing requires expansions for its 'skirmish' mode when that is the only mode that game has. I'm saying that skirmish mode REQUIRES you to buy villian/ally packs just to use what is already included in the core set, its written in the rules. That is not a competitive rule or anything. If you want to use rebel saboteurs in a tournament, you NEED to buy the ally pack even though you get their card in the core set. That is a little different then X-wing with 'want a boost card to up your team rating? buy this ship expansion.' A game focused on a certain mode of play would not require you to buy expansions just to play it at all. Using your PC analogy from before, that'd be like saying 'blahblah' game is MP focused even though you had to buy an expansion just to get access to MP.

You guys have a selfish view about a table top game by not giving other players choice in their games (since you dont think he deserves to be a figure then no one else can). Let the players worry about the whole POINT of the story/campaign and what fits or doesnt fit their tastes (i bet there are players that had a moment to be long remembered when they played against Vader - why not Palpatine? - and survived for example - thats a good story).

Thats like saying I dont like chocolate so no one else can like it/ eat it.

Ill write again... I want a Palpatine (or Jabba or a Mynock or a Sarlacc or... should I go on?) figure for completeness sake. If im a fanboy or not of Palpatine its my problem not yours (same with explosions - i love spending a good hour just watching ships blowing up in the movies).

Calling Game Police...

This is simply untrue (or not any more true for us than you) this is a forum, it's a place for people to voice their opinions, Patrick, Sam and I would find parts of the game less enjoyable were Palpatine added and we're saying that and why.

For some people a board game can be a fairly immersive experience which would be damaged by the inclusion of Palpatine.

Ultimately FFG will take the game where they want (or where they think it will sell best) and some of us will get what they want and some won't).

Backtracking to stuff in your other post:

My assertion that FFG is more focused on the campaign is based on several things:

• The fact that skirmish was initially so poorly balanced (It shouldn't have taken much playtesting to find that 4x4 was degeneratively good)
• Pre-release there were twice as many articles based around campaign as skirmish (and the campaign ones came first)
• Talking with my LGS owner he observed that, despite a thriving magic tournament scene in the city, most of his money came from people buying cards casually (It seems very likely that, with one inherently 'casual' mode, this would still be the case in IA) (This also rebuts your point about "they wouldn't have worlds if they were focused on campaign" (yes I know I'm paraphrasing but of course they intend on making money out of both).)

I think both mechanics and flavor are problems with including Palpatine, they're intertwined because the mechanics of a figure are based on its flavor. Would you be happy if they included him in the game and he had effectively the same card as Vader? I've seen multiple fan attempts to design a card for him and none felt right; the reason for that is it's difficult to capture the feel of an 86 year old man with no armor wielding almost godlike power in a balanced miniature, even if FFG think that Palpatine would be good for the game they don't want to do a half-arsed job of him.

Whats untrue? Youre being selfish? If thats so then why you keep telling me how I should play my game with your opinion on what figures FFG should make just because you dont like it. Again you dont even know how/when/if thats going to happen and you are already refusing it without even give IA designers (i dont care about fan attempts) a chance... so that tells me that if FFG announces next monday that Palpatine is going to be in the next set you already decided that you arent going to get near the figure instead of waiting for how its going to be implemented ("damaging the immersive experience" is a kids reaction - dont tell me youre going to stop buying/playing IA if FFG makes Palpatine!?).

Your wrongly assertion that FFG is more focused on the campaign is based on several things that are misleading:

- Playtest doesnt always get right. Wont be the first wont be the last. Anyway assuming that without knowing how much time they had for playtest is wrong in my opinion (for me a clue how bad playtest was - either lack of time or... distracted playtesters - is that in the first IA FAQ they changed the sequence of activation for those that had more figs than the opponent - it was a basic thing).

- Of course that campaign mode had more articles. Its more complex. Skirmish is "get at each other throat" mode - the last standing wins (thats why the skirmish game is a couple of pages and references some rules in the learn to play and the rest are dedicated to campaign mode).

- Now you want to compare a collectible card game to a minis board game!?... Of course he sells a lot more to the casual player. There are a lot more of those anywhere in the world than tourney players - tourney players only buy cards for the deck of the day (I know that - I worked at a game store when Magic was in Ice Age - no joke here). FFG sells many more figs due to skirmish than campaign mode - sold tons of Royal Guards and Imperial Officers).

I dont see any problems before I see the card/mechanics of him. I dont judge without knowing how its going to be done.

Having the Emperor in this game would be similar to allowing the use of an Imperator class Titan in a game of Space Hulk.

Yes, it exists in the universe. Does it fit thematically? No, it does not.

Its a matter of *scale. The emperor does not fit in a game about a small group of rebels enacting hit and run missions against the empire. His addition would be, essentially, jumping the shark.

The *only* way I could see it being implemented reasonably, is the same way they did with heroclix Galactus. Simply point cost him outside any possible use in any tournament, and not writing him into a campaign. Sith fanboys get their old man fix, and nobody has to take it seriously.

It made me laugh (hard) some of you worrying about flavor-wise (that IS silly guys) in a miniatures table top game about a film franchise. Getting Emperor as a figure is another option like all the other figures. If you like the idea buy it and use it if you dont dont buy it... easy.

Several reasons why we should have any figure (even if it displeases some of you):

- Its a figure (for completeness - in my case the Emperor would be very cool).

- For custom made Campaigns

- For skirmish games (and tourneys of course - maybe a bit difficult to balance ruleswise but...)

- For the painting masters out there

- Recreate the Revenge of the Sith duel between Yoda and Palpatine (maybe Yoda wins and theres no need to hide the twins and turn Anakin into robocop )

Its silly to care about the story? That is the whole POINT of the campaign, to tell a story. Thats like saying "watch star wars but only pay attention to the explosions." You say 'if you don't want him, don't buy him'... so I should skip an entire expansion box (that we pretty much get 1-2 a year.) just because some fanboys wanted Palpatine?

Yes its silly because its a board game. The whole POINT of a board game is to have fun and not to worry about why Palpatine (or any other figure for that matter) is on the table because you dont want it or if it fits the story (who told you he cant fit in the story? just because you think that? - i think the opposite).

You guys have a selfish view about a table top game by not giving other players choice in their games (since you dont think he deserves to be a figure then no one else can). Let the players worry about the whole POINT of the story/campaign and what fits or doesnt fit their tastes (i bet there are players that had a moment to be long remembered when they played against Vader - why not Palpatine? - and survived for example - thats a good story).

Thats like saying I dont like chocolate so no one else can like it/ eat it.

Yes youre doing both (nitpicking and spoil the fun). Without knowing how a campaign (and to smooth your fears he can have different mechanics for Skirmish and Campaign modes) would be with him and without knowing how he would be done (ruleswise) youre already assuming it would be less enjoyable for you... thats more than nitpicking... youre already saying its the end of the world.

About Skirmish mode not being the main FFG business for IA made me laugh hard again. They even made a worlds championship for it... no company organizes tourneys without the intention of making money out of it.

Being hard to fit in mechanically is game designers job to do it properly. Theyre paid for that. Let them worry about that.

- Frail old man!? You made me laugh hard again. Again were talking about a game and options but ill indulge in your point of view and say: A Sith Master that defeats (for all intents and purposes) the best Jedi Master and lives to tell I refuse to call him a "frail old man" (and force lightning a Jedi knight - after the same Jedi Knight defeated his best warrior).

- Norgrath... man... decide from what viewpoint you want to try justify your claim for not having a figure of Palpatine in the game... first was the flavor one (see Frail old man) and now you talk about game mechanics. Again Force Lightning isnt the only thing Palpatine can do. He also can fight with a lightsaber, use Force Throw (or whatever you want to call to hurling stuff to Yoda and is a master (maybe his best... quality) of treachery and deceit (and im only using the movies as a guide).

- Back to flavor then... lets go again then... Being a leader is precisely what is right about getting support skills in him being a sith or not. In fact looking at the movies is what he does best and fits just right in him having support skills (or barking orders if you wish - look at Maul, Dooku, Grievous - all of them acted on Palpatine orders and support - either directly or indirectly).

Its cool, you make me laugh too.

Anyways...

1. Who are you to say what the point of a board game is? I don't see any rules or laws stating these facts... hell if I wanted to I could just buy the game and use it as a paperweight. My point being is that this game serves different purposes for different people. Some play it for the story, some play it for the action, and etc. For us having Palpatine as a playable villain greatly hurts the story.

2. We are being just as selfish as the Palpatine figure supporters. You say "just don't buy him" but it doesn't work like that. When/if Palpatine is released, it'll be in an expansion... perhaps an expansion the size of Twin Shadows, an expansion the size of Return to Hoth, or maybe even bigger. You are telling us NOT to buy one of these expansions.

3. That is a terrible analogy. If Palpatine is released he will be mandatory for the expansion he is in.

4. And you have no idea how fun or terrible a campaign with him would be either. So we are equal terms on this.

5. Palpatine vs Yoda was pretty much a draw. Yoda had to retreat due to reinforcements arriving. Also Yoda himself is an old (perhaps even older) man too. And Palpatine vs Luke was not a fight in the slightest. Luke was completely disarmed and didn't even try to fight or defend himself.

6. Yes, exactly. Palpatine is a master of treachery and deceit. He operates from the shadows. He doesn't barge in and start zapping the B-team (players) of rebels.

7. Again you just reiterated the point we are making. Palpatine is a LEADER. NOT A FIGHTER. He sends his apprentices to go do the dangerous stuff for him. Palpatine doesn't risk himself and charge headlong into battle. He schemes and sends his lapdogs (Maul, Dooku, Vader) to fight for him and eventually replace them with a new lapdog.

Good... we need a good laugh after a days work and I keep laughing.

1. Using your own arguments than i must say that you have much better and cheaper paperweights because using the box like that is against the flavor of the game. FFG fault for making such a pretty paperweight.

2. No were not. "we dont like it so no one should have it" is much more selfish than "its one more option to have/play - those who like it use it those who dont dont use it". Easy. If it gets to that then yes... im saying that. When I dont like something I dont buy it. Im not going to forbid anyone else from buying it.

3. What analogy? Do you already know how hes going to be????

4. Right I dont know but you guys are already assuming its going to be a disaster. The end of the world...

5. A draw!? Reinforcements!? Ooooh poor Yoda... For such a badass Jedi Master it was... an embarassing moment. About Luke... are you serious about that? Ill explain to you then... Luke didnt fought because Palpatine caught him offguard (like the good treacheous evil being he is) when he realized he couldnt lure him to the dark side by killing his father.

6. Ok. Now try the other way around...

7. By that token then we should ban Leaders from the game.

Having the Emperor in this game would be similar to allowing the use of an Imperator class Titan in a game of Space Hulk.

Yes, it exists in the universe. Does it fit thematically? No, it does not.

Its a matter of *scale. The emperor does not fit in a game about a small group of rebels enacting hit and run missions against the empire. His addition would be, essentially, jumping the shark.

The *only* way I could see it being implemented reasonably, is the same way they did with heroclix Galactus. Simply point cost him outside any possible use in any tournament, and not writing him into a campaign. Sith fanboys get their old man fix, and nobody has to take it seriously.

Another nonsense comment.

Its not a Titan in Space Hulk (that would make sense talking about a Death Star in IA) and its not Galactus in Heroclix (that would make sense talking about a Sith god or whatever in IA).

The emperor fits (as an example) if that group of rebels wants to destroy the shield generator in a moon around a planet where happens to be a empire station orbiting... oh wait...

I find you guys amusing... One figure is forbidden to exist just because youre afraid of whats going to be... if ever...

If I was a IA game designer reading this topic I would be very sad because of the lack of faith you have in "us".

Bring on Sidius! Just give me Lando first.

You guys have a selfish view about a table top game by not giving other players choice in their games (since you dont think he deserves to be a figure then no one else can). Let the players worry about the whole POINT of the story/campaign and what fits or doesnt fit their tastes (i bet there are players that had a moment to be long remembered when they played against Vader - why not Palpatine? - and survived for example - thats a good story).

Thats like saying I dont like chocolate so no one else can like it/ eat it.

Ill write again... I want a Palpatine (or Jabba or a Mynock or a Sarlacc or... should I go on?) figure for completeness sake. If im a fanboy or not of Palpatine its my problem not yours (same with explosions - i love spending a good hour just watching ships blowing up in the movies).

Calling Game Police...

This is simply untrue (or not any more true for us than you) this is a forum, it's a place for people to voice their opinions, Patrick, Sam and I would find parts of the game less enjoyable were Palpatine added and we're saying that and why.

For some people a board game can be a fairly immersive experience which would be damaged by the inclusion of Palpatine.

Ultimately FFG will take the game where they want (or where they think it will sell best) and some of us will get what they want and some won't).

Backtracking to stuff in your other post:

My assertion that FFG is more focused on the campaign is based on several things:

• The fact that skirmish was initially so poorly balanced (It shouldn't have taken much playtesting to find that 4x4 was degeneratively good)
• Pre-release there were twice as many articles based around campaign as skirmish (and the campaign ones came first)
• Talking with my LGS owner he observed that, despite a thriving magic tournament scene in the city, most of his money came from people buying cards casually (It seems very likely that, with one inherently 'casual' mode, this would still be the case in IA) (This also rebuts your point about "they wouldn't have worlds if they were focused on campaign" (yes I know I'm paraphrasing but of course they intend on making money out of both).)

I think both mechanics and flavor are problems with including Palpatine, they're intertwined because the mechanics of a figure are based on its flavor. Would you be happy if they included him in the game and he had effectively the same card as Vader? I've seen multiple fan attempts to design a card for him and none felt right; the reason for that is it's difficult to capture the feel of an 86 year old man with no armor wielding almost godlike power in a balanced miniature, even if FFG think that Palpatine would be good for the game they don't want to do a half-arsed job of him.

Whats untrue? Youre being selfish? If thats so then why you keep telling me how I should play my game with your opinion on what figures FFG should make just because you dont like it.

I have never once said how you should play the game, I've said how I play the game and how adding Palpatine would harm that.

Having the Emperor in this game would be similar to allowing the use of an Imperator class Titan in a game of Space Hulk.

Yes, it exists in the universe. Does it fit thematically? No, it does not.

Its a matter of *scale. The emperor does not fit in a game about a small group of rebels enacting hit and run missions against the empire. His addition would be, essentially, jumping the shark.

The *only* way I could see it being implemented reasonably, is the same way they did with heroclix Galactus. Simply point cost him outside any possible use in any tournament, and not writing him into a campaign. Sith fanboys get their old man fix, and nobody has to take it seriously.

Another nonsense comment.

Its not a Titan in Space Hulk (that would make sense talking about a Death Star in IA) and its not Galactus in Heroclix (that would make sense talking about a Sith god or whatever in IA).

The emperor fits (as an example) if that group of rebels wants to destroy the shield generator in a moon around a planet where happens to be a empire station orbiting... oh wait...

I find you guys amusing... One figure is forbidden to exist just because youre afraid of whats going to be... if ever...

I'll stifle the smartass comeback for your benefit.

I'm afraid you've missed my point. You do understand the idea of scale and theme I am trying to express here, right? Can you give me an example of a comparable power level thing in another mythology (since you didn't like mine).

Imagine you're playing Dungeons and Dragons and your adventure for level 3 characters (four fighters/rogues in this case) ends with you fighting Elminster (or Halaster, if you know who that is).

Imagine you're watching a cop show like Law and Order or CSI and at the end Magneto shows up and murders the crap out of *everybody.

If there were an instance with a shield generator, we already know who took out the Death Star II generator and where the Emperor was at that time, so you can't be referring to that incident. Imperial Assault isn't Star Wars minis, it works within established timeline. I can't imagine the emperor sitting in guard duty on a tertiary shield generator on a secondary space station when he really needs to be busy ruling the universe.

So we can talk apples to apples, who would you compare Palpatine to in another setting?

It made me laugh (hard) some of you worrying about flavor-wise (that IS silly guys) in a miniatures table top game about a film franchise. Getting Emperor as a figure is another option like all the other figures. If you like the idea buy it and use it if you dont dont buy it... easy.

Several reasons why we should have any figure (even if it displeases some of you):

- Its a figure (for completeness - in my case the Emperor would be very cool).

- For custom made Campaigns

- For skirmish games (and tourneys of course - maybe a bit difficult to balance ruleswise but...)

- For the painting masters out there

- Recreate the Revenge of the Sith duel between Yoda and Palpatine (maybe Yoda wins and theres no need to hide the twins and turn Anakin into robocop )

Its silly to care about the story? That is the whole POINT of the campaign, to tell a story. Thats like saying "watch star wars but only pay attention to the explosions." You say 'if you don't want him, don't buy him'... so I should skip an entire expansion box (that we pretty much get 1-2 a year.) just because some fanboys wanted Palpatine?

Yes its silly because its a board game. The whole POINT of a board game is to have fun and not to worry about why Palpatine (or any other figure for that matter) is on the table because you dont want it or if it fits the story (who told you he cant fit in the story? just because you think that? - i think the opposite).

You guys have a selfish view about a table top game by not giving other players choice in their games (since you dont think he deserves to be a figure then no one else can). Let the players worry about the whole POINT of the story/campaign and what fits or doesnt fit their tastes (i bet there are players that had a moment to be long remembered when they played against Vader - why not Palpatine? - and survived for example - thats a good story).

Thats like saying I dont like chocolate so no one else can like it/ eat it.

Yes youre doing both (nitpicking and spoil the fun). Without knowing how a campaign (and to smooth your fears he can have different mechanics for Skirmish and Campaign modes) would be with him and without knowing how he would be done (ruleswise) youre already assuming it would be less enjoyable for you... thats more than nitpicking... youre already saying its the end of the world.

About Skirmish mode not being the main FFG business for IA made me laugh hard again. They even made a worlds championship for it... no company organizes tourneys without the intention of making money out of it.

Being hard to fit in mechanically is game designers job to do it properly. Theyre paid for that. Let them worry about that.

- Frail old man!? You made me laugh hard again. Again were talking about a game and options but ill indulge in your point of view and say: A Sith Master that defeats (for all intents and purposes) the best Jedi Master and lives to tell I refuse to call him a "frail old man" (and force lightning a Jedi knight - after the same Jedi Knight defeated his best warrior).

- Norgrath... man... decide from what viewpoint you want to try justify your claim for not having a figure of Palpatine in the game... first was the flavor one (see Frail old man) and now you talk about game mechanics. Again Force Lightning isnt the only thing Palpatine can do. He also can fight with a lightsaber, use Force Throw (or whatever you want to call to hurling stuff to Yoda and is a master (maybe his best... quality) of treachery and deceit (and im only using the movies as a guide).

- Back to flavor then... lets go again then... Being a leader is precisely what is right about getting support skills in him being a sith or not. In fact looking at the movies is what he does best and fits just right in him having support skills (or barking orders if you wish - look at Maul, Dooku, Grievous - all of them acted on Palpatine orders and support - either directly or indirectly).

Its cool, you make me laugh too.

Anyways...

1. Who are you to say what the point of a board game is? I don't see any rules or laws stating these facts... hell if I wanted to I could just buy the game and use it as a paperweight. My point being is that this game serves different purposes for different people. Some play it for the story, some play it for the action, and etc. For us having Palpatine as a playable villain greatly hurts the story.

2. We are being just as selfish as the Palpatine figure supporters. You say "just don't buy him" but it doesn't work like that. When/if Palpatine is released, it'll be in an expansion... perhaps an expansion the size of Twin Shadows, an expansion the size of Return to Hoth, or maybe even bigger. You are telling us NOT to buy one of these expansions.

3. That is a terrible analogy. If Palpatine is released he will be mandatory for the expansion he is in.

4. And you have no idea how fun or terrible a campaign with him would be either. So we are equal terms on this.

5. Palpatine vs Yoda was pretty much a draw. Yoda had to retreat due to reinforcements arriving. Also Yoda himself is an old (perhaps even older) man too. And Palpatine vs Luke was not a fight in the slightest. Luke was completely disarmed and didn't even try to fight or defend himself.

6. Yes, exactly. Palpatine is a master of treachery and deceit. He operates from the shadows. He doesn't barge in and start zapping the B-team (players) of rebels.

7. Again you just reiterated the point we are making. Palpatine is a LEADER. NOT A FIGHTER. He sends his apprentices to go do the dangerous stuff for him. Palpatine doesn't risk himself and charge headlong into battle. He schemes and sends his lapdogs (Maul, Dooku, Vader) to fight for him and eventually replace them with a new lapdog.

Good... we need a good laugh after a days work and I keep laughing.

1. Using your own arguments than i must say that you have much better and cheaper paperweights because using the box like that is against the flavor of the game. FFG fault for making such a pretty paperweight.

2. No were not. "we dont like it so no one should have it" is much more selfish than "its one more option to have/play - those who like it use it those who dont dont use it". Easy. If it gets to that then yes... im saying that. When I dont like something I dont buy it. Im not going to forbid anyone else from buying it.

3. What analogy? Do you already know how hes going to be????

4. Right I dont know but you guys are already assuming its going to be a disaster. The end of the world...

5. A draw!? Reinforcements!? Ooooh poor Yoda... For such a badass Jedi Master it was... an embarassing moment. About Luke... are you serious about that? Ill explain to you then... Luke didnt fought because Palpatine caught him offguard (like the good treacheous evil being he is) when he realized he couldnt lure him to the dark side by killing his father.

6. Ok. Now try the other way around...

7. By that token then we should ban Leaders from the game.

You can quit with the 'laughing' you know, its clearly you are just trying to get under people's skin.

1. Good job completely dismissing the point I was making. I'll just assume that means you had no counterpoint.

2. Whether I like Palpatine or not has nothing to do with it. (I actually do like his character) The point is putting him in this game is foolish. (It's already dumb that a bunch of nobodies can defeat Vader and apparently the Rebels had a jedi all along.. but that is besides the point.) And yes you are being just as 'greedy' as us. In fact you might even be more so. You want an expansion that clearly people are against. How is it greedy for us to rather have FFG focus on other parts of Star Wars? I'm sure I could just as easily say I want a character from Star Wars that you hate to be in IA. Believe me, there will be a character in Star Wars you hate... EU or not.

3. Your chocolate analogy... do you even remember what you posted? And no one knows how he's going to be obviously.

4. You are the one overreacting. Not once did any of us say it'd be the end of the world nor even say we'd stop playing the game. Heck, I don't think any of us even said we'd skip an expansion with Palpatine in it... we've just said we don't want him in it.

5. Maybe you should re-watch Return of the Jedi first before stating false facts. Luke literally TOSSES AWAY HIS LIGHTSABER. That's not getting caught off guard.

6. I have no idea what you even mean here...

7. You must have a trouble understanding rank. General (the highest rank we get in combat so far) is nowhere near as high as EMPEROR OF THE GALAXY. Palpatine is the most powerful person in the galaxy and I don't mean strength/combat wise. But I do agree that even Generals shouldn't be in IA (just make them a lower rank)... but that is a different argument.

I have never once said how you should play the game, I've said how I play the game and how adding Palpatine would harm that.

Yes you did. Not directly but in refusing to have a particular figure as an option...

Its such a difficult concept to understand?

Also another counterpoint against including the Emperor. Lets say he is included in the next expansion and the finale has you defeat him. Now what? The death/capture of the Emperor would make the Empire crumble. The entire faction revolves around him. In case you aren't aware of the EU, that is what happens at the end of Return of the Jedi. The Empire fractures, infighting everywhere because everyone with a rank higher than janitor wants to be the new Emperor. Heck, already the Emperor has people plotting against him (even DARTH VADER) when he is alive and well.

Ok, so that can't happen because then the movies wouldn't happen (which IA runs parallel to) I guess the Emperor just runs away then? Well that is pretty lame for the hero players. All that hard work and all they get is a 'thanks for trying' medal.

And then, what incentive is there to play future campaigns? The one with Palpatine would have you fight the most powerful person in the galaxy. There is no greater threat than him. Without including the Emperor in IA, there is always a greater threat/target across the horizon.

Having the Emperor in this game would be similar to allowing the use of an Imperator class Titan in a game of Space Hulk.

Yes, it exists in the universe. Does it fit thematically? No, it does not.

Its a matter of *scale. The emperor does not fit in a game about a small group of rebels enacting hit and run missions against the empire. His addition would be, essentially, jumping the shark.

The *only* way I could see it being implemented reasonably, is the same way they did with heroclix Galactus. Simply point cost him outside any possible use in any tournament, and not writing him into a campaign. Sith fanboys get their old man fix, and nobody has to take it seriously.

Another nonsense comment.

Its not a Titan in Space Hulk (that would make sense talking about a Death Star in IA) and its not Galactus in Heroclix (that would make sense talking about a Sith god or whatever in IA).

The emperor fits (as an example) if that group of rebels wants to destroy the shield generator in a moon around a planet where happens to be a empire station orbiting... oh wait...

I find you guys amusing... One figure is forbidden to exist just because youre afraid of whats going to be... if ever...

I'll stifle the smartass comeback for your benefit.

I'm afraid you've missed my point. You do understand the idea of scale and theme I am trying to express here, right? Can you give me an example of a comparable power level thing in another mythology (since you didn't like mine).

Imagine you're playing Dungeons and Dragons and your adventure for level 3 characters (four fighters/rogues in this case) ends with you fighting Elminster (or Halaster, if you know who that is).

Imagine you're watching a cop show like Law and Order or CSI and at the end Magneto shows up and murders the crap out of *everybody.

If there were an instance with a shield generator, we already know who took out the Death Star II generator and where the Emperor was at that time, so you can't be referring to that incident. Imperial Assault isn't Star Wars minis, it works within established timeline. I can't imagine the emperor sitting in guard duty on a tertiary shield generator on a secondary space station when he really needs to be busy ruling the universe.

So we can talk apples to apples, who would you compare Palpatine to in another setting?

It wasnt a smartass comment. It made no sense your comment.

Exactly my point... scale. The ruler of a space empire (that doesnt control all the galaxy) its not a god (or demi-god) which is what youre implying by comparing to Galactus (or Elmister or Halaster - whatever). The Roman Emperors tought that also...

I played a lot of D&D - all versions until 4th (and most of other RPGs for that matter - have you ever played Shadowrun? Mechwarrior? Vampire? D6 Star Wars? Earthdawn? ) to know that youre tricking those who dont know to fall on your trap. Tell me why in IA a level 3 rebel group fights a demi-god/god??? Who told you that in IA that group is going to fight that guy???. This isnt D&D... you dont have levels.

You guys love to make stuff up just to try to prove that one character shouldnt be in the game... A game!

Now even crossovers are fair game to try that... Law & Order/CSI and Magneto!?!?!? BWAHAHAH. Dont go there...

I was joking with that scenario but you guys take this too serious... Im not IA game designer.

Skirmish games dont have a timeline and campaign games have the timeline that players choose to have. FFG doesnt force you to follow the timeline.... if thats important even.

Why bother comparing? Any setting that i could write you would counter by pointing that isnt the samething so...