Fleets with 2 to 3 Gladiators.

Okay, so the Ackbar AF rebels have the conga line. If you've tried it, you probably know it works incredibly well.

The first question is, vs a non conga line, random whatever fleet, how do you deploy your Glads and then move them? Where should they go to get the better of your opponent running into their range?

2nd question: Against the conga line, what do you do? Especially as first player, it can be tricky to avoid being deploy-countered. Also I keep finding its actually much harder to head off and box an AF. A lot of the times, I feel like I see flanking and head on Gladiators overshooting and ending up in the other side of the AFs. And then being toasted by right left shots.

Also, with the VSD and ISD front arc, it seems like theyre always chasing AFs into the focus fire zone where the AFs can crisscross Gunnery team fire on them from one arc along the inner radius of the turn.

http://imgur.com/WQ3KhNt

^ click the masterful painting I just did in paint to illustrate what I'm talking about.

I use Ozzel to do this for the most part, but the bottom line is that you want to pin down the Home One and just go to town on it together, in unison. This includes ramming the thing to death, because sooner or later, Imperial players will discover that a raider ramming the Home One is pretty much equal to the APTs that it drops on it. It only has 8 hull, and any way to do damage to bypass shields is a winning strategy.

Stop it from moving, pounce on it with everything (it can only shoot one target), and the erase it from the game.

http://imgur.com/WQ3KhNt

^ click the masterful painting I just did in paint to illustrate what I'm talking about.

I use Ozzel to do this for the most part, but the bottom line is that you want to pin down the Home One and just go to town on it together, in unison. This includes ramming the thing to death, because sooner or later, Imperial players will discover that a raider ramming the Home One is pretty much equal to the APTs that it drops on it. It only has 8 hull, and any way to do damage to bypass shields is a winning strategy.

Stop it from moving, pounce on it with everything (it can only shoot one target), and the erase it from the game.

The man has graphics skills...

Dude, that pic is pretty awesome.

I do have issue with your strategy though.

First, that back glad shouldnt be going around. if he moves that way at 2 or 3speed (engine tech on home one) then you'll never catch him. Going diagonally in might be better, though you have to avoid that devilish side arc.

Second, having the ISD and GSD go up the middle is a bad idea. This is how I kill them with the conga line. I start slowly turning and keeping the radius on them the whole way. That ISD will die.

I do think that 4 ships is a really strong requirement. Also, increasing # of squadrons is a really good idea to defer setup of ships until later.

Imo, that raider is probably best where you put it... but I might suggest putting the non demolisher as the rammer, the raider as the backstop. Or just, all of them together. Into the front.

--

Thanks. but imo, the strat needs work.

Who has table experience beating the conga line?

lol, table experience. What an outrageous insult.

I'm 4-0 with Ozzel against Home One variants using MKIIs. The ISD and Glad are not up the middle, they're moving towards the lead ship in between the Home and lead ship. If the Home is leading the pack, even better.

So back to what you were saying, the strat needs work? Seems to work fine for me. Every player I've ever talked to who's had success vs. the line has a similar strategy with fast flanking Raiders and blocking the Home One from moving. Maybe it's the player who's running the strat that really needs work.

I do. Flew an ISD II, two Glads (one Demolisher, of course) with three firesprays with Dengar support. Full speed three with navigate on the ISD with one gsd in support, the Demolisher executed a pincer around the back. He was flying home one, a guppy and CR90. The ISD flew right at the head of their line and blocked it, gunnery teaming everything in range, while the firesprays ripped all kind of shielding apart. It was glorious.

Speed, speed is of the essence. Get to the head of that line and block it fast, or you're going to die.

I've only run against one ackbar line, and I did the same thing lupine did, racing in front with the ISD...I also dropped a demolisher right in front of an mc80 through hyperspace assault, but really thats just poor objective choosing by my adversary

GASP, you mean others have utilized the same strategy of blocking the Home One and then mericlessly killing it works too?!

Let's talk about this more. It seems like both of you had table experience of putting the ISD as the blocker, not the other way around. How did you defer deployment so you could get that?

Do you think ISD is the better blocker?

How do you gauge how far to place your rear flank ship so that you don't get into the side arc from the back?

Obviously I feel like should be attempting to push hard, diagonally to avoid being left behind.

In my case, I had enough squadrons, and I was going second, that i was able to defer deployment of Relentless until he had dropped all of his ships...after he had, it was very clear that he was going to try to swing around the board on a more or less horizontal plane. I deployed on the opposite end, and swung down at speed three. By the beginning of turn two, I was set up parallel to his deployment zone and set up to eskimo kiss ( nose to nose! ) Ackbar's cruiser. Also, he made the mistake of letting me drop demolisher directly into a front arc with hyperspace assault. Kids, when your opponent has demolisher and firesprays, don't pick hyperspace assault.

I will say, I'm not sure it would work a second time. My opponent was taken by surprise, I think, at the alacrity with which the ISD was able to get across and head him off.

lol, table experience. What an outrageous insult.

I'm 4-0 with Ozzel against Home One variants using MKIIs. The ISD and Glad are not up the middle, they're moving towards the lead ship in between the Home and lead ship. If the Home is leading the pack, even better.

So back to what you were saying, the strat needs work? Seems to work fine for me. Every player I've ever talked to who's had success vs. the line has a similar strategy with fast flanking Raiders and blocking the Home One from moving. Maybe it's the player who's running the strat that really needs work.

I'm sorry. I did say something a little offensive.

Please take it this way: I play both rebels and imperials and the look of what you drew seems to indicate that the rebel player is getting two turns of really good side arc shots on the ISD and the GSD that are coming down the middle. Not to mention a point blank shot on the lead guppy into the GSD.

To me. That looks like gravy. In fact, my main opponent now is afraid of using his ISD as the tank because I've blown it up 3 times in a row.

How good is the strat if the conga line can keep moving and avoid bumping itself? I've been able to avoid the bump trap so far. Though not sure if it's opponent inexperience or my good planning.

How does ouzel help you?

Ozzel allows you to explode into speed when you need it. It allows you to slow your approach if your opponent turns into you, and allows you to jump from 2-4 from your Raiders when you have the idea approach vector.

Tarkin with tokens can do that too, but Ozzel allows this movement from banked tokens and via nav commands.

Like someone else mentioned in this thread, it's all about speed when dealing with something like congo-lines. You need to increase speed to make precise blocks (you only need to hold up the line for one turn), you need to decrease to speed to prevent multiple ships from throwing a lot of dice, and you need to be able to do these interchangably. So far for me, Ozzel seems almost designed to make congo-lines think twice before going smooth sailing. Soon or later they're going to run out of board real estate and that puts even more pressure on them to turn into you. That's when you explode in speed, block the train, and the whole line goes to sh*t.

I think that a pair of GSDs work well as anti-conga line.

GSD, Demolisher, ordinance experts, nav team (you know how this one works)

GSD, Insidious, ordinance experts, expanded launchers

Insidious should be the one that sneaks up behind the conga line. Ram the back ship in the conga line up the batty asap, and then (because it has to activate last) you can leisurely fire 2 red and 4/5 black dice up it's tailpipe. Having the extra range bonus to black dice against a rear arc does mean that you can sacrifice one of the less useful red dice to fire on the middle ship if the conga line is close, too.

As it is engineering value 3, you can spam engineering commands on insidious to repair the faceup damage that you will take from the repeated rear-pounding of the back ship at speed 3 every turn.

I wouldn't assume Home One is the only MC80 running around or hat that's what you are gonna see in a conga line.. Defiance has some pretty nice damage potential and can create some nasty scenarios for Gladiators trying to box him in, especially if it can snag the double arc shot. Also I've started running a sort of staggered line to make it less likely that if one of my ships gets blocked an goes crashing in to the one ahead. Generally this means the lead ship is going to be deployed something like this:

AFMK2 AFMK2

MC80

Anyways, on the tactical side of defeating the conga line I do have some thoughts being a player who plays Rebels more often than Imps.

I don't disagree with the speed element in what you suggest, just your application of the speed. I don't think massed Gladiators is likely the answer.

Certainly Demolisher still has a place because it is a fantastic title that gives you tremendous flexibility in how you apply it's fire power. Because of this it works as a great decoy. Rushing Demolisher in on the same turn you are going to be firing at medium range on your Vic II's and ISD II's can make a Rebel player think long and hard about what and where to shoot.

Boosted Comms and a Rhymer ball also effectively can counter the conga line. A long-range Activation of the Rhymer ball outranges the conga line, and with Firesprays in the mix, can seriously put the hurt on.

A Raider Swarm also presents some issues for the conga line. Namely the ability to take a bunch of cheap ships with the ability to put Assault Proton Torpedoes on targe. APT's mess things up in a hurry.

I think that ISD's should also be taking a hard look at Captain Needa to bring an evade to the table. Evade is great to have versus a conga line that wants to fight at range.

Another option for fighting the Conga line is to go second. Take objectives that make the conga line come to you. Contested outpost, Intel Sweep, Fire lanes and Dangerous Territory can all dicate your opponent come to you or depoly in something other than the conga line.

I really think the major problem people are experiencing is that they are trying to shoehorn wave one strategies and tactics into wave two, and in many instances.

Ozzel allows you to explode into speed when you need it. It allows you to slow your approach if your opponent turns into you, and allows you to jump from 2-4 from your Raiders when you have the idea approach vector.

Tarkin with tokens can do that too, but Ozzel allows this movement from banked tokens and via nav commands.

Like someone else mentioned in this thread, it's all about speed when dealing with something like congo-lines. You need to increase speed to make precise blocks (you only need to hold up the line for one turn), you need to decrease to speed to prevent multiple ships from throwing a lot of dice, and you need to be able to do these interchangably. So far for me, Ozzel seems almost designed to make congo-lines think twice before going smooth sailing. Soon or later they're going to run out of board real estate and that puts even more pressure on them to turn into you. That's when you explode in speed, block the train, and the whole line goes to sh*t.

Can you talk more about how exactly you do this? I'm assuming you go speed 3 until you get near range, slow down to ensure you stay out of range, then nav again to blast in?

And then also use the extra variable speed to make more precise blocks?

I guess would alieviate what I'm seeing now, which is a lot of overshooting.

Ozzel allows you to explode into speed when you need it. It allows you to slow your approach if your opponent turns into you, and allows you to jump from 2-4 from your Raiders when you have the idea approach vector.

Tarkin with tokens can do that too, but Ozzel allows this movement from banked tokens and via nav commands.

Like someone else mentioned in this thread, it's all about speed when dealing with something like congo-lines. You need to increase speed to make precise blocks (you only need to hold up the line for one turn), you need to decrease to speed to prevent multiple ships from throwing a lot of dice, and you need to be able to do these interchangably. So far for me, Ozzel seems almost designed to make congo-lines think twice before going smooth sailing. Soon or later they're going to run out of board real estate and that puts even more pressure on them to turn into you. That's when you explode in speed, block the train, and the whole line goes to sh*t.

Can you talk more about how exactly you do this? I'm assuming you go speed 3 until you get near range, slow down to ensure you stay out of range, then nav again to blast in?

And then also use the extra variable speed to make more precise blocks?

I guess would alieviate what I'm seeing now, which is a lot of overshooting.

Yeah, pretty much.

You only need to sneak one Raider or Glad into the front arc of Home One or MKII and it's all good. Speed 4 will pretty much guarantee that.

I've not faced a true ackbar conga line yet, but in wave 1 I ran VGG and had little trouble with those conga lines. My glads had engine techs for extra speed and maneuvarbility. spamming navigate commands allowed me to place them basically anywhere I wanted.

I deployed demolisher off to the side it looked like the line would travel, and queued up nav, nav, concentrate fire. Between extra yaw, speed changes, and engine techs, that allowed me to block the target by the end of turn 2 usually, between the end of turn 2 volley, and double arcing for turn 3, it would take out Af2s and vics all day. Bonus points for being first player and not letting the target do anything. Most of the time I'd bank that first nav so that I could engine tech after blowing up the first target.

I found that the assault frigates would never out maneuver me, at worst they might speed up and try to block my move, but only after facing me a few times. I didn't end up over shooting.

Engine techs gave a lot of flexibility to control speed that are a little more subtle than just going really fast and turning really well. Some times I would use it to kinda conserve momentum for a turn. I really wanted to go speed 3 to cover all that ground, but the next turn speed 3 would be too fast and I didn't have a nav queued up. I'd use a nav token to go down to speed 2, then engine tech to cover ground. Best of both worlds.

Bit of untested theorycraft here-

Taken as given that the ackbar conga wants to turn and make you chase it, has anyone tried just tractoring that last ship and focusing it down? In my head it strikes me as something that should work to isolate an enemy ship and leave your fleet in good position to either chase down another or simply disengage with a lead, but things dont always work out like thay on the table. Any of you fine admirals out there try anything similar? Any success?

The simplest way I've been able to do it is to bring enough fighters that I can out-deploy the conga line. Pick your blocker, deploy them last so they have the best chance of getting the speed/angle right, and then it just takes a little practice to jam up the lead ship. (I'm speaking as primarily an Imperial player.) I think any ship but the VSD gives you a good chance of making them break formation and/or not letting them have many side arc shots.

I've been trying to build an Imp list with tractor for the front ship actually, but its not going well. VSDs are too slow and easily deploy countered. ISD is only 1.

Would deploying perpendicular to my board edge and thus hiding my intention to travel left or right make it harder to get a blocking ship?

Would deploying perpendicular to my board edge and thus hiding my intention to travel left or right make it harder to get a blocking ship?

I do this as the rebel player. F$%^s up my opponent. Lol. I tend to deploy-counter them.

Also, AFs are extremely versatile ships.

Just don't pick something like Intel Sweep. Or if you do. Have some plan for it. Like I've set up 3 intel tokens in a line, and then my non-objective ship right in the middle facing the middle token.

This lets me deploy the objective ship on EITHER side to turn right or left, and grab the 3 tokens on the first 3 turns.

VSDs are going to have problems going forward. They're cheap carriers, but they're easily out-run and out-ranged. Fortunately they are eligible for Hyperspace assault...

I haven't faced a true A/F MC80 A/F conga line yet actually... except in a solo test with a placeholder MC80. In that test I ran an NK-7 build on VSDs to try draining tokens, but in the build I had the MC80 was rigged to auto-repair any damage, leaving the Assault Frigates to pummel the rest of the fleet to death with Ackbar. Worrisome to see on the table.

But another point I wanted to mention was one time I was facing a pair of assault frigates. What they did while one of my allies (in a 2v2 game) was charging them with a VSD, was that they split. So if you cannot move close enough to prevent that movement, it just means the lead conga will go one way and the rear one will go the other.... and that ship gets bracketed from two ships' broadside arcs.

So how can you assure that you're close enough to block them from splitting?

Especially if the opponent player is savvy enough to deploy his ships to ensure one ship can clear the other in the event of being blocked!