Yup, it says in the rules that the range bonus is when defending against primary weapon attacks only, but it's a mistake I always made until I saw different.

It's the special perk of using cannons and missiles that have restricted ranges. Makes it slightly easier to hit a higher agility ship at long range when using a missile.

Allow every ship to take one standard proton torpedo or one concussion missile for free on any ship costing >15 points.

It always seemed weird to me that these ships would be launched with empty tubes.

As someone who routinely uses ordnance/munitions I feel ffg is on the right track. They are getting better incrementally, but it's tricky and we dont need a knee jerk over-fix because most are incredibly good. Bombs and mines in particular are both very disruptive on the right platforms but they take a lot of thought and practice so the margin for error is much higher than other weapons. Ships like k wings, deathrain, emon azzameen are pretty ridiculous in the right hands although incredibly skill intensive, and ya even guys like rhymer who i still run often are functional. Cards like 'genius', or stacking extra munitions with failsafe have been good to me.

Also I feel thread tracers are better than people are anticipating. I've been using these for awhile as proxy and they can enable some pretty silly openings like "target lock you 5 times". For 1 point. When you would of focused anyway. My best is 3 actually but I was playing a 3 ship build. Note the other friendlies don't need to be in firing range.

Anyway I think some of the suggested fixes would be borderline op, although the ordnance phase idea does sound interesting as a counter point to vet instincts.. which actually is what mines kinda are anyway.

Yes, we should just wait to see how they fix it. BUT! We also should stretch our toes in the sandbox when ever we can.

I felt that each ordinance should start with a munition token, and keep those tokens until spent on a special quality of the munition.

Well if you made it a mod at 0 or 1 point that allowed you to fire missiles or torpedoes in addition to your primary weapon each round you would

1) make sure the ace pilots don't see a big buff, unless they're willing to give up thier often essential mod slot

2) to avoid any kind of FAQ / errata requirement.

I don't think this would be too powerful at all. At this stage in the game two attacks per round is becoming commonplace and most sources are not paying a big premium or having limited uses of the ability. Really something like this is going to buff the dedicated missile/torp platforms and give an alternative way to field mid level generics. On the surface it seems a fair and clean fix

Edit: it also prevents the potentially unfair abuse of flachette Torps, accuracy corrector & munitions fail safe which would let you hand out a stress for free then make a primary attack. Every freaking round.

Well if you made it a mod at 0 or 1 point that allowed you to fire missiles or torpedoes in addition to your primary weapon each round you would

1) make sure the ace pilots don't see a big buff, unless they're willing to give up thier often essential mod slot

2) to avoid any kind of FAQ / errata requirement.

I don't think this would be too powerful at all. At this stage in the game two attacks per round is becoming commonplace and most sources are not paying a big premium or having limited uses of the ability. Really something like this is going to buff the dedicated missile/torp platforms and give an alternative way to field mid level generics. On the surface it seems a fair and clean fix

Edit: it also prevents the potentially unfair abuse of flachette Torps, accuracy corrector & munitions fail safe which would let you hand out a stress for free then make a primary attack. Every freaking round.

Heh, for half a second there I was wondering why I hadn't combined Nera Dantels with Munitions Failsafe, Flechette Torpedoes, Gunner, Accuracy Corrector and Deadeye. Then I realized that Gunner on a B-wing requires the E2 mod :/

Also, expensive.

I presume it's better to just change dice for them.

It will definitely make greater impact and remove possibilities of horrible horrible "I throw 8 dice in thy face" situations as with this topic's proposal.

Soon to be released with the imperial XG-1 Starwing expansion pack.

Soon to be released with the imperial XG-1 Starwing expansion pack.

Hopefully the wishlists of BOATLOVERZ never come true.

There are still unspoiled ordnance fixing upgrade cards in the upcoming wave.

So wait and trink tea.

Eitherways, Extra Munitions and the several newer Missiles that don't require a target lock is the fix. There's also several special pilots that have abilities that make Ordinance shine.

Redline, Deathrain, that one Firespray in Scum with all the bombs.

Generic Punishers with Accuracy Corrector and Cluster Missiles is kind of neat too.

They could make missiles ignore shields, hah. Like in FTL!

AHM and Prockets use focus. Ion pulse missiles and homing missiles don't spend TL. That's like half the total number of missiles (Refit doesn't count as a real missile). Ordnance has been getting better for quite a while and the Tracer missile is about to make alpha strikes with Z missile carriers a Thing with a capital Z.

We need a ship that can fire torps and missiles out of an auxilary arc too. Why do cannons and turrets get so much more love?!

There's a B-wing that does that, actually. Nera Dantels.

Or do you mean like a whole class of ship?

I'm aware of Nera. I was wondering why Moralo only got to fire HLC and every other cannon 180 degrees while Firesprays can't fire missiles and torpedoes behind them. Nera kinda screws things up for any future missile/torp fixes because she has a really good pilot ability that should have been an upgrade. Same with Rymer. FFG doesn't like giving out upgrades that have abilities that already exist in some form unless it can be implemented in a at least a slightly different way. Basically there's only so much we can do for munitions now.

I would love to see a free 'cannon' upgrade that allows missiles or torpedoes to be shot without requiring TL. Maybe. Dunno if we will see any defenders taking missiles or B-wings taking torps, but who knows.

Friendly reminder: you can't buff Torpedoes* by nerfing cannons. Name an Imperial ship you commonly see cannons on. Do you think that ship would suddenly be replaced by Rhymer if cannons were a bit weaker but torpedoes and missiles stayed the same? I have grave doubts.

Well, not everything has to be about making Rhymer relevant. .

But cheap B-Wing with some torpedoes instead of an HLC could be quite useful.

Added system slot - Ordinance Control System (3pts)

Missile and Torpedo secondary weapons can be fired as an 'Action'.

Utilise a target lock to discard 1 enemy defence dice roll.

Rhymer should be allowed to work like ST-321.

I just wish that when you spent your Target Lock to fire your Torps/Missles you still had the ability to re-roll your misses (once only) as part of the expense of using the Target Lock in the first place. To me that would be all the incentive I would need to use munitions.

Eitherways, Extra Munitions and the several newer Missiles that don't require a target lock is the fix. There's also several special pilots that have abilities that make Ordinance shine.

Redline, Deathrain, that one Firespray in Scum with all the bombs.

Generic Punishers with Accuracy Corrector and Cluster Missiles is kind of neat too.

They could make missiles ignore shields, hah. Like in FTL!

AHM and Prockets use focus. Ion pulse missiles and homing missiles don't spend TL. That's like half the total number of missiles (Refit doesn't count as a real missile). Ordnance has been getting better for quite a while and the Tracer missile is about to make alpha strikes with Z missile carriers a Thing with a capital Z.

We need a ship that can fire torps and missiles out of an auxilary arc too. Why do cannons and turrets get so much more love?!

There's a B-wing that does that, actually. Nera Dantels.

Or do you mean like a whole class of ship?

I'm aware of Nera. I was wondering why Moralo only got to fire HLC and every other cannon 180 degrees while Firesprays can't fire missiles and torpedoes behind them. Nera kinda screws things up for any future missile/torp fixes because she has a really good pilot ability that should have been an upgrade. Same with Rymer. FFG doesn't like giving out upgrades that have abilities that already exist in some form unless it can be implemented in a at least a slightly different way. Basically there's only so much we can do for munitions now.

I would love to see a free 'cannon' upgrade that allows missiles or torpedoes to be shot without requiring TL. Maybe. Dunno if we will see any defenders taking missiles or B-wings taking torps, but who knows.

because it's his SPECIAL ability.

Maybe there'll be a "I can torpedo you out of my butt" Firespray pilot

I would like to see bombs with range 1-2 blast zones and all missles and torpedos get an automatic crit much like the TIE advanced fix.

We've just had two waves of ordnance fixes with a third incoming (tracers, targeting astros, warheads on huge).

People are talking about homing missiles and proton torps again. People are using cluster missiles, concussion missiles, plasma and ion torps, and readying assault missiles to deal with the new upcoming swarms now.

When are we going to realize that maybe, just maybe ordnance is looking to be about right?

We've just had two waves of ordnance fixes with a third incoming (tracers, targeting astros, warheads on huge).

People are talking about homing missiles and proton torps again. People are using cluster missiles, concussion missiles, plasma and ion torps, and readying assault missiles to deal with the new upcoming swarms now.

When are we going to realize that maybe, just maybe ordnance is looking to be about right?

Still wish we had that re-roll. I think it would make them much more effective...much more desireable...and yet not over powered.

Yeah, the re-roll would be nice.

Ordnance isn't as bad as most people think it is.

• Cluster Missiles are REALLY good w/ certain pilots/builds.
• Concussion Missiles are okay. You have to spend your TL, but with the modification you're doing about as much damage as 4 dice w/ focus. The biggest problem is the cost, which is kind of made up with Extra Munitions.
• Assault Missiles are good in Epic, and can more than make up their points.
• Homing Missiles are expensive, but Extra Munitions make them usable. They also have a good chance of taking out Soontir.
• Ion Pulse Missiles are good for the price, especially against Large/Huge ships.
• Proton Rockets are really good on A-Wings and Vader.
• Advanced Homing Missiles are okay. A bit too random for my taste.
• Proton Torpedoes are very similar to concussion missiles. Protons are better if you never plan on having a TL+F stack and Concussions are better if you plan on having a TL+Focus stack at some point.
• Advanced Proton Torpedoes will guarantee you 5 hits with a TL+F stack. I think they're too expensive and difficult to use to be really viable outside of very niche builds.
• Flechette Torpedoes are great for 2 points. You just have to point yourself at Soontir (which is easy to do at range 2-3) to shut him down. You don't even need to hit.
• Ion Torpedoes are really good for Epic. Great way to set up those ramming attacks.
• Plasma Torpedoes are good for the points, though situational. You really only want to use it against large/huge ships.

I think if more people actually gave them a try, they'd realize they aren't too shabby. Just don't assume you can slap any piece of ordnance on any ship and expect to come out fine.

And the above comment re focus/TL stacking brings us back to the thread tracers...

Added system slot - Ordinance Control System (3pts)

Missile and Torpedo secondary weapons can be fired as an 'Action'.

Utilise a target lock to discard 1 enemy defence dice roll.

edit: make it have a max of 2 fires a turn as well cause I thought of the unload shenanigans a bomber could roll on a single large target. The mov was enough for them being one shot would be a bit much ha.

And the above comment re focus/TL stacking brings us back to the thread tracers...

and Rebel focus-tl combos.

and to PTL

and to taking TL BEFOREHAND because R1 means that.

nope, they are cool.and they FORCE THE ENEMY to run screaming WOOP WOOP fearing that R1 attack

Cluster are depending on pilot (NDru) or certain ships (TAdv with corrector)

Concussion, Assault, Homing, APT, Ion Torp are all too expensive; you kinda could get around that with Extra Munition, but then your ships needs to be able to load EM in the first place. That leaves out a number of fighters (A Wing, Z-95, X-Wing, E-Wing). Plus loading EM on top makes your ship even more expensive while you are hoping to get both missiles/torps off.

Proton and Plasma are fine, ok cost/value ratio. The PR because it bypasses one of the biggest problem of the missiles/torps (TL requirement, dice modification), the plasma for the extra damage. I see plasma on Redline only, PR shows on Vader and Jake.

AHM are too difficult to use (no drawback in my eyes though), and are most effective against a small number of targets (if you go for the killing aspect). Still, a nice piece of equipment, but again is only considered because it bypasses the dice modification problem + has low cost + nice extra effect (dealing critical hits).

Flechette really is too situational. If you have a build that sucks against Soontir see if you can get one or two in - problem solved.

So only newer released missiles/torps are really considered "useful", and those are trying to tackle the problems of missiles/torps: too many points spent on single use item, no dice modification, TL requirement (which makes these close to useless for low PS pilots). And even these newer releases are not good enough to regularly make it into tournament lists; while tournaments really shouldn't be the measurement for everything they show very clearly what's effective (for the points spent).

Ordnance isn't as bad as most people think it is.

• Cluster Missiles are REALLY good w/ certain pilots/builds.
• Concussion Missiles are okay. You have to spend your TL, but with the modification you're doing about as much damage as 4 dice w/ focus. The biggest problem is the cost, which is kind of made up with Extra Munitions.
• Assault Missiles are good in Epic, and can more than make up their points.
• Homing Missiles are expensive, but Extra Munitions make them usable. They also have a good chance of taking out Soontir.
• Ion Pulse Missiles are good for the price, especially against Large/Huge ships.
• Proton Rockets are really good on A-Wings and Vader.
• Advanced Homing Missiles are okay. A bit too random for my taste.
• Proton Torpedoes are very similar to concussion missiles. Protons are better if you never plan on having a TL+F stack and Concussions are better if you plan on having a TL+Focus stack at some point.
• Advanced Proton Torpedoes will guarantee you 5 hits with a TL+F stack. I think they're too expensive and difficult to use to be really viable outside of very niche builds.
• Flechette Torpedoes are great for 2 points. You just have to point yourself at Soontir (which is easy to do at range 2-3) to shut him down. You don't even need to hit.
• Ion Torpedoes are really good for Epic. Great way to set up those ramming attacks.
• Plasma Torpedoes are good for the points, though situational. You really only want to use it against large/huge ships.

I think if more people actually gave them a try, they'd realize they aren't too shabby. Just don't assume you can slap any piece of ordnance on any ship and expect to come out fine.