Cluster are depending on pilot (NDru) or certain ships (TAdv with corrector)

Concussion, Assault, Homing, APT, Ion Torp are all too expensive; you kinda could get around that with Extra Munition, but then your ships needs to be able to load EM in the first place. That leaves out a number of fighters (A Wing, Z-95, X-Wing, E-Wing). Plus loading EM on top makes your ship even more expensive while you are hoping to get both missiles/torps off.

Proton and Plasma are fine, ok cost/value ratio. The PR because it bypasses one of the biggest problem of the missiles/torps (TL requirement, dice modification), the plasma for the extra damage. I see plasma on Redline only, PR shows on Vader and Jake.

AHM are too difficult to use (no drawback in my eyes though), and are most effective against a small number of targets (if you go for the killing aspect). Still, a nice piece of equipment, but again is only considered because it bypasses the dice modification problem + has low cost + nice extra effect (dealing critical hits).

Flechette really is too situational. If you have a build that sucks against Soontir see if you can get one or two in - problem solved.

So only newer released missiles/torps are really considered "useful", and those are trying to tackle the problems of missiles/torps: too many points spent on single use item, no dice modification, TL requirement (which makes these close to useless for low PS pilots). And even these newer releases are not good enough to regularly make it into tournament lists; while tournaments really shouldn't be the measurement for everything they show very clearly what's effective (for the points spent).

I would argue that ordnance isn't used in tournaments more due to their specialized nature than anything. If you're facing B-Wings, Plasma Torpedoes are pretty awesome. If you're facing Interceptors...not so much.

Flechette's are great against Soontir; pretty useless against a Fat Han.

There are only a couple that can be useful against all-comers (Proton Rockets and Cluster Missiles), but even then you have to use them on a ship that's designed to get good use out of them. If I knew that every list I was playing against was a swarm of some kind, I would happily spend 5 points on Assault Missiles, but tournaments don't work like that.

Redline takes umbrage to your comment that only N'Dru and TIE Advanced with Accuracy Corrector are good with Cluster Missiles. She gets a Target-Lock re-roll on each attack assuming she has the Fire Control System. She is good with any ordnance with the "spend a Target Lock" mechanic.

Redline takes umbrage to your comment that only N'Dru and TIE Advanced with Accuracy Corrector are good with Cluster Missiles. She gets a Target-Lock re-roll on each attack assuming she has the Fire Control System. She is good with any ordnance with the "spend a Target Lock" mechanic.

I never stated that only NDru or TAdv are good with Cluster, although my post could be read like that. "depending on pilot or certain ships". Redline can make good use of a lot of missiles and torpedoes (all TL header types), if you spend the points and make sure she lives long enough. That ones like the other end of the line, perfectly crafted with her ability for those ordnance, like FFG saying "see, that's how it could be at the other extreme".

@trustybroom: Even in casual play I see the missiles and torpedoes very rarely (exception being PR, and loaded Redline). Instead of spending 4 points on a Proton Torp you can always spend them on something more useful - on an X Wing even an EU will be better than PT (much better in fact in the hands of the right player). Missiles and torpedoes shouldn't become the answer to everything, but right now they are out of the game. You never see AWings without Chardaan Refit (Jake being the exception, since he can actually get the PR into range and fire it) - a missile on the A Wing is said to cost 2 points more since you can't use CR then! Same for Z-95, being cheap as they are and lacking great firepower you would expect to see a missile now and then - not happening. The calculation is easy, 3 decent missiles run at the same cost as an additional Z-95, and you will get more out of that additional Z.

I think missiles/torpedoes can work if you build the list around them, which you may not want to do. I am having fun and growing success with CJ and 3 scimitars. The down side is you have to learn to fly a bomber, not the same as dash But I have one-shot'd Fat Poe and Fat Vader.

I do have a question. Does the tracer give a TL to the ship that fired it? The new FAQ says you are at range 1 of yourself. I play this list on vassel and only give the TL to the other 3 amigos.

by one-shot'd I mean one-salvo'd

I think missiles/torpedoes can work if you build the list around them, which you may not want to do. I am having fun and growing success with CJ and 3 scimitars. The down side is you have to learn to fly a bomber, not the same as dash But I have one-shot'd Fat Poe and Fat Vader.

I do have a question. Does the tracer give a TL to the ship that fired it? The new FAQ says you are at range 1 of yourself. I play this list on vassel and only give the TL to the other 3 amigos.

If the wording is "all friendly" or "a friendly" or "any friendly" ship then you can apply it to yourself.

If it says "another friendly" ship then it is your pals but not you.

When are we going to realize that maybe, just maybe ordnance is looking to be about right?

When we start complaining that Proton Torpedoes are OP, wait no, that's when we've gone too far...

simple fix.. make it do AUTO damage. 4 red dice= 4 damage... you roll and disregard any blanks.. or better yet they bring out a different dice for ordnance. a torp should be able to one shot something!!! opponent STILL gets to roll defense dice normally. to much???

simple fix.. make it do AUTO damage. 4 red dice= 4 damage... you roll and disregard any blanks.. or better yet they bring out a different dice for ordnance. a torp should be able to one shot something!!! opponent STILL gets to roll defense dice normally. to much???

Highly disagree, I can't even count how many times Ive been one hit by missles/torps, stupid green dice....

I think missiles/torpedoes can work if you build the list around them, which you may not want to do. I am having fun and growing success with CJ and 3 scimitars. The down side is you have to learn to fly a bomber, not the same as dash But I have one-shot'd Fat Poe and Fat Vader.

I do have a question. Does the tracer give a TL to the ship that fired it? The new FAQ says you are at range 1 of yourself. I play this list on vassel and only give the TL to the other 3 amigos.

I'm not as down on ordnance as a lot of you are. FFG will and should be very careful with the ordnance fix and introduce incremental buffs (see Plasma Torpedoes). FFG has a very narrow margin that if exceeded could really screw up the beautiful meta we have currently. Imagine how many threads there would be talking about the new alpha strike ordnance meta. Certain ships would go extinct too.

You have to remember that FFG purposefully made it difficult to unleash ordnance. The action cost has limited its effectiveness mostly to pilots with PTL or some other action economy boost (e.g. Redline, Jake). Generics, especially Z95s, should have difficulty firing their payloads since they cost much less relative to those aces. Tracers will make it easier, but I'm praying it's not too easy.

Tracer Rounds

Mod. 1 point

After you perform a primary weapon attack against a target you may place 1 tracer token on the defending ship.

Tracer tokens may be used by all friendly ships to fire [Attack: Target Lock] secondary weapons. The token is not spent when used.

But like, worded correctly.

Said token is discarded at rounds end?

"...all friendly ships (within range) to fire [Attack: Target Lock] secondary weapons, (not requiring to have/spend target lock?)"?

New Missile Ordinance

Nuclear - 15 points

Attack Dice - special

Range - 1-5

Spend a target lock to fire

Roll as many attack dice as you want, and after the defender rolls his normal number of defense dice, cancel all results and flip the table over.

If the table was nailed to the floor or you were too weak to flip it, the missile was a dud. You now may be subject to international sanctions if the witnesses survive.

If your opponent got mad, you win. Modified victory, you only lose points based on which of your ships broke.

I think it should be 17 points, but other than that it looks ok...

An option could be to have an option to have the ship target lock rather than the pilot actively doing it.

After you reveal your manoeuvre dial place a (yellow target lock) token on one enemy ship, within your firing arc, at range 1-3 ,and a corresponding (green target lock) token on your ship.

At the beginning of the combat phase, replace these with red/blue target lock tokens if the enemy ship is within your firing arc, otherwise discard the tokens.

An option could be to have an option to have the ship target lock rather than the pilot actively doing it.

After you reveal your manoeuvre dial place a (yellow target lock) token on one enemy ship, within your firing arc, at range 1-3 ,and a corresponding (green target lock) token on your ship.

At the beginning of the combat phase, replace these with red/blue target lock tokens if the enemy ship is within your firing arc, otherwise discard the tokens.

I was thinking of a twist on this where an upgrade - probably an astromech or system - lets you place a blue target lock token on to an equipped missile or torp. Your ship may then also have its own token. When you fire you spend the token from the card to activate the torp and then have the one on the ship for modifying.

Tracer Rounds

Mod. 1 point

After you perform a primary weapon attack against a target you may place 1 tracer token on the defending ship.

Tracer tokens may be used by all friendly ships to fire [Attack: Target Lock] secondary weapons. The token is not spent when used.

But like, worded correctly.

...

Could this be what those Tractor Beam tokens do?

Ships attacking the ship with a tractor beam token can treat Attack (Target Lock): as Attack: and do not discard their target lock tokens if instructed by the attack?

Said token is discarded at rounds end?

Very solid.