Hey,

I know there are an awful lot of threads about ordnance being not so great, and how to fix 'em. I just thought about that today again, and came up with the following solution that we might give a try here for a few games:

1) Torpedoes with the target lock header may be fired IN ADDITION to the primary weapon. The torpedo attack has to be the first, the primary attack follows then (no need to give ATC any extra power). Both are separate attacks and may be declared against different targets.

2) Missiles with the target lock header may attack targets outside your firing arc.

Done. Everything else stays the same.

Since all ordnance are one use only that should balance whatever overpower shadow we see here. Yes, Corran could get even stronger for one round, as well as some Y-Wings. But they are also more in danger now, as torpedo carriers can deal quite some damage in a single turn - the X-Wing's a thing then.

Torpedoes add one red die when targeting large or huge ships. Missiles add one red die when targeting small ships.

Done!

(Actually not much of a fix but it's something that's can be FAQd)

Torpedoes add one red die when targeting large or huge ships. Missiles add one red die when targeting small ships.

Done!

(Actually not much of a fix but it's something that's can be FAQd)

would that be enough to justify 4 points for a proton torp, or concussion missile? Also, my "solution" could also simply be FAQed ;-)

These weapons were not balanced for uses like this. I know sometimes it seems like they were never balanced at all but this is not the way to do this. Wait for targeting astro, wait for thread tracers, wait for the fix for the M3A and then we can resume our discussion on the state of ordnance.

:-) when we had the 21 page thread (last year) about fixing the TAdv by giving it a sensor slot some people mentioned that the TAdv was not made for that, and would not be balanced (actually we suggested a free FCS, but sensor slot was also among the possible fixes). Well, see what happened, we got even more than that...

The game moved on since the first ordnances were released. I seriously doubt that the thoughts and restrictions that the designers put on stuff from the first days hold true anymore with all the new toys around.

I don't say my solution is the answer, it's just an idea and I like to get feedback and viewpoints from people outside our gaming group.

As an old player that stopped during wave 3 and is getting back in, what's the problem with ordinance? Just too expensive for the one shot?

It's too expensive and action-intensive for what it costs. That being said, I don't want to see it be so valuable that alpha strike lists where you can win a game in the first couple rounds quite often start working.

You end up spending a target lock just to shoot an extra die a lot of the time, and one unmodified die once is not worth very much. We'll see what happens with a few new upgrades, though.

point cost and the TL requirement, you see almost no ordnance nowadays (at least in tournament games). The only one showing up now and then is the Proton Rocket, which doesn't need a TL (you just need a focus token, and you don't have to spend it to attack with it - all that for 3 points only; ok, it's limited to range one, but perfect for A-Wing aces). And then there's Redline, you load that one up with ordnance which actually replaces his crappy primary weapon - with extra munition he can go through the game using missiles or torps every turn

edit: ninja-ed

I dunno, my friend one hit Mauler with concussions missles from a Z95. I also rolled 4 blank green dice....

still, in the same game, another one of my Ties got 1 hit by a Bwing with Advanced Proton torpedos.... I rolled 3 blanks that time....

Also did you really want Rymer dropping face up cards on anyone unlucky enough to in range 1-3 of him?

Also did you really want Rymer dropping face up cards on anyone unlucky enough to in range 1-3 of him?

I don't see Rymer much (can't even remember the last time somebody used him). But other ships all the time. So I wouldn't mind Rymer getting a push. After all he's in a bomber, which can be dropped in a single turn, and with AHM on it he will have a hard time getting more than 2 turns of attacking. All that for at least 5 points on top of Rymer (8 points if you're an optimist). And to be honest, he still needs to hit (yes, 3 dice modified by TL might do the job)

Too late to fix missiles and torpedoes. Cannons and turrets all the way.

I'll just rehash one of my older ideas:

Ordnance phase. After activation, before combat. It allows even low PS ships to get their ordnance off. If attacking during the Ordnance phase, gain a weapons disabled token.

debuff cannons and turrets by reinstating the range bonuses for those two.

I dunno, my friend one hit Mauler with concussions missles from a Z95. I also rolled 4 blank green dice....

still, in the same game, another one of my Ties got 1 hit by a Bwing with Advanced Proton torpedos.... I rolled 3 blanks that time....

You had stealth device on Mauler Mithel? I usually only put it on Interceptors with Autothrusters to make it last longer, though back in the day I would use it on the Firespray.

(Unless you think you get a bonus defense die at range 3 against secondary weapons for some reason!)

I dunno, my friend one hit Mauler with concussions missles from a Z95. I also rolled 4 blank green dice....

still, in the same game, another one of my Ties got 1 hit by a Bwing with Advanced Proton torpedos.... I rolled 3 blanks that time....

You had stealth device on Mauler Mithel? I usually only put it on Interceptors with Autothrusters to make it last longer, though back in the day I would use it on the Firespray.

(Unless you think you get a bonus defense die at range 3 against secondary weapons for some reason!)

Maybe the shot was through a rock

debuff cannons and turrets by reinstating the range bonuses for those two.

HLC with TL header is all you have to do.

Eitherways, Extra Munitions and the several newer Missiles that don't require a target lock is the fix. There's also several special pilots that have abilities that make Ordinance shine.

Redline, Deathrain, that one Firespray in Scum with all the bombs.

Generic Punishers with Accuracy Corrector and Cluster Missiles is kind of neat too.

They could make missiles ignore shields, hah. Like in FTL!

Also did you really want Rymer dropping face up cards on anyone unlucky enough to in range 1-3 of him?

the proposed fixes..? hmm.. no.

this one though.. yeah! I'd like to see rhymer on the playfield. my bombers want to shoot stuff, too (really depressed crew)

Eitherways, Extra Munitions and the several newer Missiles that don't require a target lock is the fix. There's also several special pilots that have abilities that make Ordinance shine.

Redline, Deathrain, that one Firespray in Scum with all the bombs.

Generic Punishers with Accuracy Corrector and Cluster Missiles is kind of neat too.

They could make missiles ignore shields, hah. Like in FTL!

AHM and Prockets use focus. Ion pulse missiles and homing missiles don't spend TL. That's like half the total number of missiles (Refit doesn't count as a real missile). Ordnance has been getting better for quite a while and the Tracer missile is about to make alpha strikes with Z missile carriers a Thing with a capital Z.

We need a ship that can fire torps and missiles out of an auxilary arc too. Why do cannons and turrets get so much more love?!

Eitherways, Extra Munitions and the several newer Missiles that don't require a target lock is the fix. There's also several special pilots that have abilities that make Ordinance shine.

Redline, Deathrain, that one Firespray in Scum with all the bombs.

Generic Punishers with Accuracy Corrector and Cluster Missiles is kind of neat too.

They could make missiles ignore shields, hah. Like in FTL!

Tracers don't fix anything ordinance is still over overcosted

Targeting astromech doesn't do anything under the common idea of what it is because your just spending more points to give a one shot weapons a free target lock which still is over costed and suck.

The only time ordinance will see play is in epic right now?

Why because ordinance is unlimited use for no additional cost and serves a purpose to cover blind spots in epic ships targeting range.

I dunno, my friend one hit Mauler with concussions missles from a Z95. I also rolled 4 blank green dice....

still, in the same game, another one of my Ties got 1 hit by a Bwing with Advanced Proton torpedos.... I rolled 3 blanks that time....

You had stealth device on Mauler Mithel? I usually only put it on Interceptors with Autothrusters to make it last longer, though back in the day I would use it on the Firespray.

(Unless you think you get a bonus defense die at range 3 against secondary weapons for some reason!)

What?! defensive range bonus against missles, thats ridiculous... hehe.

Friendly reminder: you can't buff Torpedoes* by nerfing cannons. Name an Imperial ship you commonly see cannons on. Do you think that ship would suddenly be replaced by Rhymer if cannons were a bit weaker but torpedoes and missiles stayed the same? I have grave doubts.

Similarly: Nera Dantels was FFG's way of begging us to use Torpedoes. She doesn't see much play either. A quick eyeball says she's more points efficient than a Blue B- and you _still_ don't see her.

Nerfing cannons might make certain combos less good, but that just means more ships with primary weapons, not with torpedoes.

*every instance of "Torpedo" can be interchanged with "torpedoes and missiles", but I don't want to type that much.

Eitherways, Extra Munitions and the several newer Missiles that don't require a target lock is the fix. There's also several special pilots that have abilities that make Ordinance shine.

Redline, Deathrain, that one Firespray in Scum with all the bombs.

Generic Punishers with Accuracy Corrector and Cluster Missiles is kind of neat too.

They could make missiles ignore shields, hah. Like in FTL!

AHM and Prockets use focus. Ion pulse missiles and homing missiles don't spend TL. That's like half the total number of missiles (Refit doesn't count as a real missile). Ordnance has been getting better for quite a while and the Tracer missile is about to make alpha strikes with Z missile carriers a Thing with a capital Z.

We need a ship that can fire torps and missiles out of an auxilary arc too. Why do cannons and turrets get so much more love?!

There's a B-wing that does that, actually. Nera Dantels.

Or do you mean like a whole class of ship?

I dunno, my friend one hit Mauler with concussions missles from a Z95. I also rolled 4 blank green dice....

still, in the same game, another one of my Ties got 1 hit by a Bwing with Advanced Proton torpedos.... I rolled 3 blanks that time....

You had stealth device on Mauler Mithel? I usually only put it on Interceptors with Autothrusters to make it last longer, though back in the day I would use it on the Firespray.

(Unless you think you get a bonus defense die at range 3 against secondary weapons for some reason!)

What?! defensive range bonus against missles, thats ridiculous... hehe.

But seriously, They don't? I figured Missles/Turrets didn't get a Range Bonus at range 1, but Defending ships don't get one a range 3?

my apologies, I have not had the pleasure of playing Xwing with anyone besides my Friends, who I am teaching the game.