Yeah well I didn't like the whole "immune to the force" thing. That sounded like something a bad GM would think up to pose a challenge for the group. We have already the Ysalamiri with their force-jamming field.

For as much **** as the series gets, I have a bit of grudging respect for it. I think it was the first series that was willing to kill off an established character. That's gutsy and I think it's a shot in the arm for the EU. Reading some of the EU it's weird to realize that Han is 60+ and still romping around the galaxy doing **** like he's the same young man from A New Hope. I mean it's a huge galaxy and we are still telling stories about the same two families. Making them mortal clears the way for expanding to tell new stories about new heroes.

It pretty much read like: "We've written ourselves into a corner, where there's absolutely no obstacle in the galaxy that cannot be overcome by sufficient application of force plot-magic. So let's introduce something from out of the galaxy, more or less impervious to technology, immune to the force, and let's make it creepy, to boot."

To be fair, they had written themselves into that corner. With the Force as plot-magic it's difficult to generate new and interesting antagonists. How many Sith Lords can you fight before it gets dull? I think it was worth trying to mix it up, but it was sort of a trainwreck.

As a tangent, I wonder how much they were influenced by the Thrawn material. You've got a previously unheard of species showing up out of nowhere with military prowess and cunning. At the same time you have the Jedi's space magic mitigated in some organic way. I can see where they pulled some ideas from one of the most well received stories and tried to recapture that. Anyway, just a thought I had while thinking over the vast EU material.

Yeah well I didn't like the whole "immune to the force" thing. That sounded like something a bad GM would think up to pose a challenge for the group. We have already the Ysalamiri with their force-jamming field.

For as much **** as the series gets, I have a bit of grudging respect for it. I think it was the first series that was willing to kill off an established character. That's gutsy and I think it's a shot in the arm for the EU. Reading some of the EU it's weird to realize that Han is 60+ and still romping around the galaxy doing **** like he's the same young man from A New Hope. I mean it's a huge galaxy and we are still telling stories about the same two families. Making them mortal clears the way for expanding to tell new stories about new heroes.

It pretty much read like: "We've written ourselves into a corner, where there's absolutely no obstacle in the galaxy that cannot be overcome by sufficient application of force plot-magic. So let's introduce something from out of the galaxy, more or less impervious to technology, immune to the force, and let's make it creepy, to boot."

To be fair, they had written themselves into that corner. With the Force as plot-magic it's difficult to generate new and interesting antagonists. How many Sith Lords can you fight before it gets dull? I think it was worth trying to mix it up, but it was sort of a trainwreck.

As a tangent, I wonder how much they were influenced by the Thrawn material. You've got a previously unheard of species showing up out of nowhere with military prowess and cunning. At the same time you have the Jedi's space magic mitigated in some organic way. I can see where they pulled some ideas from one of the most well received stories and tried to recapture that. Anyway, just a thought I had while thinking over the vast EU material.

I can't buy the "guts to kill off a main character" angle simply because it was the first opportunity for it. Until then, those characters were off-limits by decree of Lucasfilm.

If anything, I hold that against Vector Prime even more, because it had a storytelling opportunity that no other SW novel had before, and it still went the route of alien invaders from beyond the known galaxy, and still managed to be lousy.

I do, however, totally agree on the difficulty of telling an original story within the canon at that point. That being said, though, I don't give them a pass for not managing it. If they can't tell a good story, I'd rather them not tell a story at all than tell a lousy one. It makes it seem like more of a blatant money grab, where they're stamping the SW logo on what might have otherwise been a thoroughly average sci-fi novel outside of the setting, and trading on the Star Wars name to generate sales.

The key difference, for me, between the Vong series and the Thrawn trilogy was that Thrawn's race had nothing to do with the story. You could have made him human, or twi'lek, or even a Hutt (actually, that might have been pretty awesome), and told the same story and it would have worked every bit as well. In contrast, the Vong and their special characteristics are absolutely central to the entire series, which would fall apart without those characteristics specifically handpicked to help make them a credible threat. It's like when a GM specifically hand crafts a villain for their party that is specifically designed to be immune to everything the party is good at. It's too convenient to be plausible. So these things from who knows where show up and they're a warrior race that just so happens to be nearly impervious to all of the technology and "magic" of the setting? And to let us know the writers want us to take them seriously, they kill off a main character? Come on.

I can't buy the "guts to kill off a main character" angle simply because it was the first opportunity for it. Until then, those characters were off-limits by decree of Lucasfilm.

My understanding is that the orders to kill Chewbacca came from Lucasfilm themselves. The author didn’t know that would be required until after he accepted the deal and was told what the core features of the story had to be.

Since Lucasfilm had decreed that Chewbacca had to die, the author decided to give him the biggest death possible.

I used to hate that author and that story, because they killed one of my favorite characters — and in a stupid and cheesy way.

Now that I know the story behind the story, I don’t hate the author so much. I still hate the story.

I've got nothing against Salvatore...I just didn't like the plot of the Star Wars novel he wrote and haven't read any of his other stuff. /shrug

This is one of the things that I think FFG should make, right up there with a Soldier Sourcebook for AoR

I've got nothing against Salvatore...I just didn't like the plot of the Star Wars novel he wrote and haven't read any of his other stuff. /shrug

I did, and D'rizzt Duh Urden is an emo Gary Stu if i've ever seen one.

I probably don't hate him either, just his writing. I also don't care for Martin or Brooks.

My 10 favourite Authors are:

• Erich Kästner
• Michael Ende
• Heinrich Mann
• Friedrich Schiller
• Terry Pratchett
• C. S. Forrester
• Jules Verne
• Arthur Conan Doyle
• Charles Dickens
• René Goscinny

None of them wrote for STAR WARS. There are good Star Wars authors, but they can't compare to these, my personal favourite 10. No ranking needed among them.

I decided to drag this thread back up again, since the thing I want to talk about somewhat affects this discussion.

As it comes from Ep VII I put it behind a spoiler.

This was already spoiled in the trailer, though.

So for those who dare to look, what do you think does that mean for the Mandalorians? What are your thoughts?

If so, I missed that twice and that is awesome.

As far as the spoiler image.. That could have been pretty old, before Mandelore became a peaceful planet.

Was it mentioned that Maz was a pirate?

If so, I missed that twice and that is awesome.

As far as the spoiler image.. That could have been pretty old, before Mandelore became a peaceful planet.

If it's old the color is still very pristine, isn't it? But yeah! Could be. I doubt it was hung there by Boba, because a lot of prime targets of him would be there and I dout he would just let them call "base" whenever they stop there.

If the Mandos accept that place as a neutral ground, then that means they are still a somewhat recognizable group among the scum of the galaxy.

Mandalorian sourcebook? WANT!

Mandalorian sourcebook? WANT!

Me too, buddy! Me, too...

If that banner does not prove the immediate need for a Mandalorian sourcebook..... There are even more reasons now!

Was it mentioned that Maz was a pirate?

If so, I missed that twice and that is awesome.

As far as the spoiler image.. That could have been pretty old, before Mandelore became a peaceful planet.

If it's old the color is still very pristine, isn't it? But yeah! Could be. I doubt it was hung there by Boba, because a lot of prime targets of him would be there and I dout he would just let them call "base" whenever they stop there.

If the Mandos accept that place as a neutral ground, then that means they are still a somewhat recognizable group among the scum of the galaxy.

Definitely not Fett, since he doesn't care to recognize things like neutral ground or oaths when it suits him. But it's a big galaxy, so here's hoping we get something.

If that banner does not prove the immediate need for a Mandalorian sourcebook..... There are even more reasons now!

Because they seem to be relevant 20 years before and 30 years after the portion of time that the FFG games cover?

If that banner does not prove the immediate need for a Mandalorian sourcebook..... There are even more reasons now!

Because they seem to be relevant 20 years before and 30 years after the portion of time that the FFG games cover?

I agree and I disagree with Hydrospanner here. "Immediate" is a bit too much. I have things I'd much rather have before the Mandos actually.

I would really like a book about the Corporate Sector before a mandalorian one to be honest. The Mandalorians are a really nice concept and work for such a book, but some things are actually more needed, just because of the way they jump in our face when we look at the galaxy map. The Corporate Sector being one. I'd also like a book on Core Worlds before a Mando one. We haven't got a good sourcebook on Coruscant yet or other core worlds. The only core worlds that were truly fleshed out are the Corellian System, Duro and Chandrila.

But I disagree that Mandos were "irrelevant" during the 50 years time span. Because 1. you don't know how long the flag has been there and 2. you could say the same thing about a lot of other organizations, that are dearly beloved. The BLack Sun eg. They had a "Mention" in Rebels now. But nothing else since the clone wars cartoon. So that would make them actually LESS relevant than the Mandos. Why? Because they were only mentioned in ONE episode so far, while we had a female mandalorian running around in the series the whole time. And Rebels is definitely covered by FG since we got some ships from the show in the latest Guardian sb.

The BLack Sun eg. They had a "Mention" in Rebels now. But nothing else since the clone wars cartoon. So that would make them actually LESS relevant than the Mandos.

Except for SotE taking place right in the middle of the OT.

And if you're going to argue that that's just Legends and has to be thrown out, then you also throw out the vast majority of mandalorian lore as well.

Regardless, it doesn't at all change my point that mandalorians are no more relevant because of a banner in TFA...to a game concerned with a time period three decades prior...than they are now.

I'd be down for this if they rolled Mandalorians back to the days when Traviss hadn't bound them in leather and rode them like ponies.

The BLack Sun eg. They had a "Mention" in Rebels now. But nothing else since the clone wars cartoon. So that would make them actually LESS relevant than the Mandos.

Except for SotE taking place right in the middle of the OT.

And if you're going to argue that that's just Legends and has to be thrown out, then you also throw out the vast majority of mandalorian lore as well.

Regardless, it doesn't at all change my point that mandalorians are no more relevant because of a banner in TFA...to a game concerned with a time period three decades prior...than they are now.

Yeah I realized that too later on, that we're arguing legends canon with new canon. Doesn't make sense...

But FFG is using elements from both, so I think that there are still enough fans and thus reasons out there, that a full-blown Mando-Book could happen. And I think that even the most hardcore doubters will find some stuff in it, that they find just pretty cool.

But as I said, other stuff has priority! I even consider, that a crime syndicate book might be the one that gives us Coruscant, because of the Black Sun HQ. And a few other Planets, like Falleen.

And lastly today one argument that I have against Mandos being put in a Bounty Hunter book. They would make it too thick. We need all the stuff about the different Guilds in that book.

Well, there is at least one book that I know of that was published about 1 to 2 years ago.

Some of you might be familiar with it but, at least to me, its the closest thing we got to a Bounty Hunter source book until it's release by FFG.

The Bounty Hunter Code is filled with useful info for both GMs and players, but if you want some Mando lore then go to page 129. Downside is its a recruitment section for the Death Watch so it's filled with propaganda 'written by' Tor Vizsla. Some of the RPG mando's I know hate him along with Satine, but if you want your character to be a former DW or active DW member, this is a good read.

Well, there is at least one book that I know of that was published about 1 to 2 years ago.

Some of you might be familiar with it but, at least to me, its the closest thing we got to a Bounty Hunter source book until it's release by FFG.

The Bounty Hunter Code is filled with useful info for both GMs and players, but if you want some Mando lore then go to page 129. Downside is its a recruitment section for the Death Watch so it's filled with propaganda 'written by' Tor Vizsla. Some of the RPG mando's I know hate him along with Satine, but if you want your character to be a former DW or active DW member, this is a good read.

Even if they are not Death Watch, it still is full of Mando culture infos. But this nice little book is also supporting my point: A Bounty Hunter book would have to focus too much on the Bounty Hunter's guild and all those smaller guilds to have room for something about Mandalorians that is on par with the attention of detail FFG has given those things so far. If there doesn't come a specific Mandalorian sourcebook, I can picture a book about cultures of the galaxy. It could include the Hapans and maybe some other "bigger" cultures, that controlled small sections of the galaxy instead of just their home system.

I think that the eventual Bounty hunter book will have Mandalorian content. It is pretty much a gimme what with one of the most iconic bounty hunters being Boba Fett. And FFG is not afraid to borrow from the EU where it suits their purposes. It is also why I don't think we will see a Mandalorian supplement. Mando armour and gear would be a shoe in for the BH book. We may even see a Mando species much like we saw the Correlian. Beyond that, stuff will continue to show here and there where they choose to drop it in.

I think that the eventual Bounty hunter book will have Mandalorian content. It is pretty much a gimme what with one of the most iconic bounty hunters being Boba Fett. And FFG is not afraid to borrow from the EU where it suits their purposes. It is also why I don't think we will see a Mandalorian supplement. Mando armour and gear would be a shoe in for the BH book. We may even see a Mando species much like we saw the Correlian. Beyond that, stuff will continue to show here and there where they choose to drop it in.

And yet Corellian stuff seemed a shoe in for Smuggler...

I think that the eventual Bounty hunter book will have Mandalorian content. It is pretty much a gimme what with one of the most iconic bounty hunters being Boba Fett. And FFG is not afraid to borrow from the EU where it suits their purposes. It is also why I don't think we will see a Mandalorian supplement. Mando armour and gear would be a shoe in for the BH book. We may even see a Mando species much like we saw the Correlian. Beyond that, stuff will continue to show here and there where they choose to drop it in.

And yet Corellian stuff seemed a shoe in for Smuggler...

Guess we'll see.

Perhaps the need is not immediate. But between Boba Fett and Sabine Wren there is a lot of material. Adding the mando stuff to the BH book probably would make too big, I agree with that. But mandalorians have always been there.

In both the prequel and the original trilogies, the Clone Wars, rebels, and now with a banner in TFA.

There are very few races or cultures who can claim as much, and I think that makes them worthy of their own sourcebook.

And now we have a new episode of Rebels, shedding some light on the "canon" version of the Mandos.

It seems to basically be the same as before, we even got the Protectors again, mandalorians adhering to the code, but not Death Watch. Even the mandalorian civil war, that came before the clone wars is hinted at, which is the reason the "new mandalorians" who sought peace came to be, at least that's the legends explanation, which could work just as well for the new canon. I guess we'll see this expand in the future, but the Mandalorians have just stepped back into a role of some importance in the events of the galactic civil war.

So for me that is again a sign to look out in the far future, there might be a mandalorian sourcebook in it from FFG.

Some new (old) stuff from the Episode:

• Spiffy fighter the mandalorians have there. I wonder if those rotating wings with thrusters do actually help it's maneuverability.
• Mandalorians hand-forge their own armor (at least sometimes).
• They are organized into houses, and clans. Makes me wonder if "Fett" was a house or a clan...
• "Fenn" Rau obviously borrowed his first name from Legends Mandalorian Protector Fenn Shysa. Even their stance towards a rebellion seem similar.
• There exits an mandalorian code, but it seems to be different than the thing Karen Traviss deviced.