My players are nearing the 600-700(I think) mark in my Edge game, and one of them lost a leg this last session. The system works and holds up really well at high "levels". Though as a GM I find myself throwing more Hard and Daunting checks at them than Average and Hard, and I barely ever throw Easy checks at them.

Our Edge campaign went to the high 600s for xp. All of us were very good at our primary careers but none of us felt quite done.

My CHar is 1045ish XP now and aso are all my colleagues. And still normal Stormtroppers can pose a threat. Especially when they have officers with them that give them a higher Initiative slot.

Also I agree with most here, these dice are fare more unpredictable than in say the old West End Games D6 Star Wars. When you came to the levels we are now in that game you threw buckets of dice, but your equipment would still do the smae damage. Tell a strength 11 d6 Wookiee a Stormtrooper ist shooting at him and hitting him with 6D damage.

He's laughing at that...

(for those that don't know in the old WEG D& game you made a soak roll against the damage roll. Now picture 6 D6 against 11 D6 and see how that works out most of the time)

My players are nearing the 600-700(I think) mark in my Edge game, and one of them lost a leg this last session. The system works and holds up really well at high "levels". Though as a GM I find myself throwing more Hard and Daunting checks at them than Average and Hard, and I barely ever throw Easy checks at them.

Oh we get Easy check all the time, with lots of complications. And Sometimes you roll so badly that even an easy check can lead to a botch. So yeah I'd still roll those, just for the chance and of course macbe for the threat it generates.

No idea who Caedus is, I suspect Legends.

You are a better man than I for not knowing, for that way lies madness.

No idea who Caedus is, I suspect Legends.

You are a better man than I for not knowing, for that way lies madness.

More like liver damage. You can seriously make a drinking game out of "Caedus internally justifies atrocity". Including things like trying to murder his own parents.

One of the reasons I'm glad I haven't actually -read- a lot of EU novels, just researched the storyline on Wookieepedia. Plus I freaking hate the Vong.

No idea who Caedus is, I suspect Legends.

You are a better man than I for not knowing, for that way lies madness.

More like liver damage. You can seriously make a drinking game out of "Caedus internally justifies atrocity". Including things like trying to murder his own parents.

That actually sounds quite interesting. I'm a sucker for internal-villain-point-of-view-who-doesn't-realize-they're-the-villain style stories. But I'm getting the impression this is not exactly Macbeth but more Superman Returns?

My CHar is 1045ish XP now and aso are all my colleagues. And still normal Stormtroppers can pose a threat. Especially when they have officers with them that give them a higher Initiative slot.

Also I agree with most here, these dice are fare more unpredictable than in say the old West End Games D6 Star Wars. When you came to the levels we are now in that game you threw buckets of dice, but your equipment would still do the smae damage. Tell a strength 11 d6 Wookiee a Stormtrooper ist shooting at him and hitting him with 6D damage.

He's laughing at that...

(for those that don't know in the old WEG D& game you made a soak roll against the damage roll. Now picture 6 D6 against 11 D6 and see how that works out most of the time)

Erm... Could a wookie even get 11D strength? They could get higher than other races, but I am sure the maximum was about 7D or similar (maybe 8). Even with armour we are talking about a maximum of 9D there really... of course that still shrugged blaster fire most of the time. I actually liked the damage system, but it only really worked when characters were around 2-5D soak (ie humans and similar races, possibly with some armour). I actually found the really unbalancing factor was when characters got Dodge up to a level where they could still take loads of actions and reliably dodge against mooks.

One of the big things is that the defensive capabilities of characters don't ramp up so much in this system as they do in other systems. Yes, you get more things like step aside, reflect etc, but they almost take resources (strain, manoeuvres etc), so even while you are holding the enemy off for longer you are still be worn down. The only thing I could really see becoming busted defensively is soak, as with the right collection of stuff you can get it pretty high. However, it takes a long time, and even then someone brings along a lightsabre and renders it moot....

XP 2.685+ and still rockin'!

The dice system mechanics let people even with 4 or 5 Yellow dices fail against "not-so-complicated" difficulty rolls. Also, Setbacks and Destiny Flip are pretty awesome

No idea who Caedus is, I suspect Legends.

You are a better man than I for not knowing, for that way lies madness.

More like liver damage. You can seriously make a drinking game out of "Caedus internally justifies atrocity". Including things like trying to murder his own parents.

That actually sounds quite interesting. I'm a sucker for internal-villain-point-of-view-who-doesn't-realize-they're-the-villain style stories. But I'm getting the impression this is not exactly Macbeth but more Superman Returns?

He just comes across as delusional. Pettily so in fact.

Hell, I will even go so far as to say that there was the seeds of a fantastic story there. No one had gone through what Caedus had, no one had his perspective. And then bad writing, authors sniping at each other and outright plot stupidity made Caedus more of a caricature then Darth Saber Knees.

Regardless. I've derailed this thread long enough. If anyone wants to continue it, let me know and I will make a new thread.

Unlike d20, Eoe doesn't require high- level characters to be fun

The narrative focus of EotE (along with the dice system reinforcing this) gives it wings when it runs out of legs. I can see the characters growing in competencey in the areas they have choosen. None of them is all powerful and I can easily put them in situations that test them by simply taking them out of their comfort zone. Split the party and have the spy in the middle of speeder chase and the pilot trying to negotiate with a group of hostiles. Instant fun. Also even though they are very capable success is never a given and even if it is there is threat and dispair that can make things interesting very quickly. The more powerful my players get the higher the stakes and the more interesting the whole thing becomes.

That actually sounds quite interesting. I'm a sucker for internal-villain-point-of-view-who-doesn't-realize-they're-the-villain style stories. But I'm getting the impression this is not exactly Macbeth but more Superman Returns?

At the risk of opening Pandora's box, it's less Superman Returns and more Man of Steel, where Superman is a jerk AND it's full of angst and doubt and grimdark. No Jesus parallel tho.

I am completely and totally floored by these responses.

My last (and longest) EotE/AoR/FaD game managed to run up until around 350xp before it was totally and utterly broken. Combat became an absolute breeze to the point where resurrected massassi warriors and Sith Lords were just about the only things the party had trouble with. All int related tasks were almost auto-resolved by the party scientist, even formidable checks that were upgraded more than once. Face players could talk jedi masters out of hiding and convince pirate barons to split Zim's treasure without a fuss. The players managed to amass a fleet that could take down star destroyers without much trouble without a single dedicated pilot.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is how it is possible for players to get to 600+ xp without becoming this broken? What happened in my game that made things go this far?

Zamphear, on 16 Dec 2015 - 9:49 PM, said:Zamphear, on 16 Dec 2015 - 9:49 PM, said:

I am completely and totally floored by these responses.

My last (and longest) EotE/AoR/FaD game managed to run up until around 350xp before it was totally and utterly broken. Combat became an absolute breeze to the point where resurrected massassi warriors and Sith Lords were just about the only things the party had trouble with. All int related tasks were almost auto-resolved by the party scientist, even formidable checks that were upgraded more than once. Face players could talk jedi masters out of hiding and convince pirate barons to split Zim's treasure without a fuss. The players managed to amass a fleet that could take down star destroyers without much trouble without a single dedicated pilot.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is how it is possible for players to get to 600+ xp without becoming this broken? What happened in my game that made things go this far?

A lot of things I guess. First, you were too generous. Social skills dont make a Face character puppet the person with who he is talking. As the GM, you fix the limit.

I can understand for combat if the group has one or more beast but you know you can make your enemies more powerfull if you want. a thug can be as dangerous as a sith lord if you want. Just give him big stats and good talents.

I am curious how you give a flleet capable of destroying Star Destroyers. You know a star destroyer has like 10 canons, at 10 damages each, each side? that at least 2 attack at 4 yellow dices for each side of the ship. Add more Destroyers and you should have a Deadly space battle.

As for ship combat, it's very easy for vastly smaller and cheaper ships to tear apart star destroyers and other capitol ships before they can even fire. For 2 million credits or so you can deal enough damage to wipe out 300+ hull of ship in a turn.

Ups, I hope my players do not read that, because they are at 300 XP now and not millionaires yet ... not even close ...

My players are at about 300 overall XP and I do not see your problems in my game at all, to be honest. Far from it, actually.

It relates to focus and a disciplined party keeping everyone in their lanes.

After 300xp, characters can essentially auto-pass almost every challenge -in their lane-. In order to challenge a party like that, it needs to be forced to split up to accomplish multiple goals simultaneously. This gives the GM the opportunity to challenge the combat monster with Deception and Charm rolls, force the Face to fight a Bounty Hunter and make the Scientist fly a stolen ship.

Adding an unlimited amount of credits (2 million is -way- too much for a party of that XP level) is a recipe for a faction-level power.

If the party is disciplined in their XP expenditure and equally disciplined with their purchases, they can start challenging factions. They're not going to rival them, but they can give pretty much any organization a headache.

That's the time to get them "noticed" by the powers that be.

Zamphear, on 16 Dec 2015 - 9:49 PM, said:Zamphear, on 16 Dec 2015 - 9:49 PM, said:

I am completely and totally floored by these responses.

My last (and longest) EotE/AoR/FaD game managed to run up until around 350xp before it was totally and utterly broken. Combat became an absolute breeze to the point where resurrected massassi warriors and Sith Lords were just about the only things the party had trouble with. All int related tasks were almost auto-resolved by the party scientist, even formidable checks that were upgraded more than once. Face players could talk jedi masters out of hiding and convince pirate barons to split Zim's treasure without a fuss. The players managed to amass a fleet that could take down star destroyers without much trouble without a single dedicated pilot.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is how it is possible for players to get to 600+ xp without becoming this broken? What happened in my game that made things go this far?

A lot of things I guess. First, you were too generous. Social skills dont make a Face character puppet the person with who he is talking. As the GM, you fix the limit.

I can understand for combat if the group has one or more beast but you know you can make your enemies more powerfull if you want. a thug can be as dangerous as a sith lord if you want. Just give him big stats and good talents.

I am curious how you give a flleet capable of destroying Star Destroyers. You know a star destroyer has like 10 canons, at 10 damages each, each side? that at least 2 attack at 4 yellow dices for each side of the ship. Add more Destroyers and you should have a Deadly space battle.

It wasn't a matter of wearing people as sock puppets, it was a combination of multiple successful rolls, relatively consistent triumphs, and most importantly good rp. It was more an issue of every roll called for was passed, rather than player coming up with absurd demands and being catered to.

On combat it wasn't within the realm of believability for anyone less than extraordinary to have the stats to pose a threat. If street toughs run around with enough soak and damage to threaten jedi (by the end of the campaign every force sensitive had picked up jedi training and a saber tree to go with it), it detracts from what it means to be a jedi. They had already taken down squads of arc troopers (admittedly small squads), MagnaGuards, sith inquisitors, and crime barons. The progression of foes was pretty natural and it would feel like an insult to them if enemies didn't feel more important and powerful as they became more important and powerful themselves.

As for ship combat, it's very easy for vastly smaller and cheaper ships to tear apart star destroyers and other capitol ships before they can even fire. For 2 million credits or so you can deal enough damage to wipe out 300+ hull of ship in a turn.

At 775 we have a Togruta Mystic/Shadow/Makashii Duelist (I think) with 4 Force die and good Sense/Move/Enhance, my Mandoalorian Scoundrel/Commando/Gadgeteer/Rigger and a Trandoshan Sharpshooter/Survivalist/Gadgeteer/something else I can't remember.

Last session the lizard fought an honor duel with another lizard and lost an arm as they torn each other apart and the session before that the three of us stormed an Imperial listening outpost that hard an high value officer (Nemesis), four 5 trooper minion groups (with Rival Sargents), a Mandalorian merc in cortosis battle armor (another Nemesis) and an AT-ST.

The Jedi took on the Merc, got sliced up a bit but forced the merc to flee, the Trandoshan sniped off any and all targets that looked like they were giving orders while I stole the AT-ST and went on a rampage.

It was a tense, close fight with the myself and the Jedi almost getting knocked out, but hardly the cake walk you described.

And I'd love to hear the 2 mil supership killer of yours, cause I'm pretty sure it's BS.

...

...

And I'd love to hear the 2 mil supership killer of yours, cause I'm pretty sure it's BS.

At 80k each, 25 Y-Wings can drop a Star Destroyer easy... Proton Torpedos: 8 base damage (9 with a hit), breach 6, crit 2, linked 1... Should be able to 1 round it, if they get initiative. If they don't, it depends on whether the turbolasers are being battery fired or not. If they are, they'll attrit it down in less than 5 rounds, probably 3 (slow firing 1). If not, it's a crapshoot, but double-front shields and the difficulty of hitting fighters makes it unlikely they'll all be taken out in the 2 rounds it takes to reload and fire again (after round 1).

And that's not even getting creative.

...

...

And I'd love to hear the 2 mil supership killer of yours, cause I'm pretty sure it's BS.

At 80k each, 25 Y-Wings can drop a Star Destroyer easy... Proton Torpedos: 8 base damage (9 with a hit), breach 6, crit 2, linked 1... Should be able to 1 round it, if they get initiative. If they don't, it depends on whether the turbolasers are being battery fired or not. If they are, they'll attrit it down in less than 5 rounds, probably 3 (slow firing 1). If not, it's a crapshoot, but double-front shields and the difficulty of hitting fighters makes it unlikely they'll all be taken out in the 2 rounds it takes to reload and fire again (after round 1).

And that's not even getting creative.

That's 25 Y-Wings making it into attack range how exactly?

I'm to assume the fighter screen all decided to nip off for a spot of tea right before the battle?

Zamphear, on 17 Dec 2015 - 01:21 AM, said:Zamphear, on 17 Dec 2015 - 01:21 AM, said:Zamphear, on 17 Dec 2015 - 01:21 AM, said:

vilainn6, on 16 Dec 2015 - 11:14 PM, said:vilainn6, on 16 Dec 2015 - 11:14 PM, said:vilainn6, on 16 Dec 2015 - 11:14 PM, said:

Zamphear, on 16 Dec 2015 - 9:49 PM, said:Zamphear, on 16 Dec 2015 - 9:49 PM, said:Zamphear, on 16 Dec 2015 - 9:49 PM, said:Zamphear, on 16 Dec 2015 - 9:49 PM, said:Zamphear, on 16 Dec 2015 - 9:49 PM, said:

I am completely and totally floored by these responses.

My last (and longest) EotE/AoR/FaD game managed to run up until around 350xp before it was totally and utterly broken. Combat became an absolute breeze to the point where resurrected massassi warriors and Sith Lords were just about the only things the party had trouble with. All int related tasks were almost auto-resolved by the party scientist, even formidable checks that were upgraded more than once. Face players could talk jedi masters out of hiding and convince pirate barons to split Zim's treasure without a fuss. The players managed to amass a fleet that could take down star destroyers without much trouble without a single dedicated pilot.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is how it is possible for players to get to 600+ xp without becoming this broken? What happened in my game that made things go this far?

A lot of things I guess. First, you were too generous. Social skills dont make a Face character puppet the person with who he is talking. As the GM, you fix the limit.

I can understand for combat if the group has one or more beast but you know you can make your enemies more powerfull if you want. a thug can be as dangerous as a sith lord if you want. Just give him big stats and good talents.

I am curious how you give a flleet capable of destroying Star Destroyers. You know a star destroyer has like 10 canons, at 10 damages each, each side? that at least 2 attack at 4 yellow dices for each side of the ship. Add more Destroyers and you should have a Deadly space battle.

It wasn't a matter of wearing people as sock puppets, it was a combination of multiple successful rolls, relatively consistent triumphs, and most importantly good rp. It was more an issue of every roll called for was passed, rather than player coming up with absurd demands and being catered to.

On combat it wasn't within the realm of believability for anyone less than extraordinary to have the stats to pose a threat. If street toughs run around with enough soak and damage to threaten jedi (by the end of the campaign every force sensitive had picked up jedi training and a saber tree to go with it), it detracts from what it means to be a jedi. They had already taken down squads of arc troopers (admittedly small squads), MagnaGuards, sith inquisitors, and crime barons. The progression of foes was pretty natural and it would feel like an insult to them if enemies didn't feel more important and powerful as they became more important and powerful themselves.

As for ship combat, it's very easy for vastly smaller and cheaper ships to tear apart star destroyers and other capitol ships before they can even fire. For 2 million credits or so you can deal enough damage to wipe out 300+ hull of ship in a turn.

If Jedi were really that powerfull, Order 66 would have been a fail by your logic. What about Boba Fett or Cade Bane, these poor Bounty hunters who can take down jedi? Maybe is just my choice of using the word Thug that was poorly chosen.

As for ship combat, I dont say it is imposible to destroy Star Destroyers with a fleet of freighters, it just seem unlikely considering the weapons of this type of ship and all the starfighters and shuttles it can carry. Plus with the number of crew a capital ship can have, it seem more unlikely you can crit it to death before they can repair it or just escape.

Well I certainly missed a lot of posts, forgive me for not quoting everyone, but for the purpose of brevity i will just bullet point things.

• The party was split many times, once leaving the borderline autistic givin scientist and sheltered shien expert to bluff their way into an imperial customs office, having the mandalorian negotiate a deal with a pirate baron, and other such fiascoes. They were all fun, but you cannot reliably make a game out of just forcing characters to only do the things they are bad at. Not only does it hurt verisimilitude, but it isn't fun for people to never get to do what they are good at. Splitting the party also means more time where half the party doesn't get to be involved, another reason it is only good in small amounts.
• 2 million credits was super a lot, but it was resources requisitioned from the Alliance, including alliance crews. Should point out that that is still about one third of a single Nebulon. They weren't a power in and of themselves, but a force-multiplier for the fleet the Alliance could provide. Taking away the support could work, but that didn't solve the problem, just acknowledge that it was such a problem it couldn't be dealt with, only avoided.
• They had been "noticed" by both the Alliance and the Empire, hence the fighting inquisitors part. They had five or six figure bounties on each of their heads after things started escalating with the Empire.
• They did fight serious criminals, mandalorians and cybernetically enhanced lizards, even a dashade. When it came to minion groups, each player (5-6 total) could easily kill at least 2+ a turn and throwing 30+ groups of storm troopers seems both cheap and uninteresting. I also should say that fights were close, but they consistently won and only picked up more power each session.
• With 2 maneuvers and an action, a ship that is speed 5 doesn't care about fighter screens as it can move from "out of capital ship range" to "I could dock with you if i wanted" range and still shoot in the same turn.
• Most jedi were maybe at 150-200 xp, with one or two trees and similar force rating. Order 66 had millions of clones to work with, complete and total surprise, and years of planning, even then it wasn't successful. Forgive me if i don't want to throw even 100 clones at my party.
• Boba Fett and Cad Bane are the two greatest bounty hunters in history. People who go toe-to-toe with Darth Vader are considered valid opponents, but that isn't changing the power level of the game or the magnitude of the in-universe consequences.
• Take any silhouette 5 ship. Retrofit light turbolasers. Use hard points to add twin light turbolasers. Concentrated Barrage. Is it armor < 10? Is it hull <125? It is oh so much space junk.

If we want details on the damage it goes as follows:

Gozanti-Class Armed Transport 200.000

Retrofit 7 Light Turbolasers 82.000

Advanced Targeting Array 4.300(with mods)

High-Output Ion Engine 5.300

Twin Light Turbolaster (x2) 36.000

327.300

Each gunner uses a sniper shot, a true aim, then a concentrated fire with light turbolasers.

Against a Victory-Class Star Destoryer

Difficulty: RBB

Armor: 9

Hull: 120

Light Turbolaser (2 successes): 9+2+(2)=11(13)-9=4

7x4=28

Twin Light Turbolaster (2 success, 2 advantage): 2x(9+2+(2))=2x(11(13))-2x(9)=8

2x8=16

44+9(concentrated fire)=53

For 2 million credits you can roll out 6 of them. 318dpr, range long against armor 9. Bear in mind that each gunner was upgrading the check three times against difficulty 1 base, so the results are downright conservative.

So thats 6 of these ships with 9 guns each against the 120 gunnery stations and 72 tie fighters. I wonder how they get to blow up the star destroyer in time if theres possibly 192 initiative slots against those 54.

I called it. Weapons grade bantha dung.