LOL at these people...QQ level over 5000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It hasn't been a week since release. Give it a little bit and be patient.

Arbitrary dates have been set and, apparently, questioning the will of the almighty FFG is tantamount to blasphemy.

Yes because hyperbolic sarcasm helps your case so much...

I guess it just seems silly to me to release the wave a full month in advance of the rules that will allow us to play with said wave in any official capacity.

Since neither you or I know why they do anything, we have no place to judge if it's silly or not.

Geeks? Patient? You're new aren't you?

Nerdrage is all the rage these days.

Yes because hyperbolic sarcasm helps your case so much...

Hyperbolic Sarcasm is my new favourite thing. I pledge to say it 10 times this week.

I'm gonna have to side with the ball-dropping crowd. I play a lot of board games too, so I look at it like this: if a company released an expansion to a board game with incomplete rules for new mechanics or game modes (including how to score the game), everybody who had bought the game would be up in arms. There would be no discussion as to whether the company had dropped the ball.

But in this case, because many are looking at it in the context of other companies who are apparently even worse (I have never played a GW game myself), I'm seeing a lot of "at least they're not as bad as those guys!" That's a frankly ridiculous position. Your low expectations don't make my higher expectations unreasonable.

Regardless, it seriously takes seconds to put together an MoV chart: plenty of community members have done so. The problem is that they're all different. The whole point of having a standardized rule set for the game is that you can go from one place to another and play the same game with different people and expect it to be the same game. It doesn't matter if we're playing "friendly" games or not (who are you playing against that your games are not friendly...?), or if they don't "matter" (what do you even mean by that? I don't play this game for the possibility of going to Worlds, if that's your standard...).

But sure, I get that it takes time to put together a publication. The frankly excessive lead time they had to put together said publication entirely aside, the least they can do at this point is publish an article with an interim MoV chart and answer the FAQs to enable people to play the game they've paid to play.

As for the entitlement accusations: I paid money to play this game. I am entitled to that for which I've paid money.

I'm not angry, nor would I apply a blanket term of incompetence on the whole company over something as non-critical and surmountable as this. I am dissatisfied with this state of affairs as a customer, and publicly expressing my displeasure with the company's actions--whether they're as a result of a written policy or not--is a perfectly reasonable response.

FFG does not care how people score their unofficial 400 point tournaments any more than they care how you score a 1000 or 75 point tournament.

Until people start playing official tournaments, FFG simply has no reason to update something, because the games the OP people care about, namely the OP ones, aren't happening.

I might wish it was otherwise, but that is how FFG works.

So we have a couple options. We can deal with it, we can ask FFG to change it, or we can stop playing their games.

We've been through this plenty of times in X-Wing, so it seems they are not inclined to change their stance. However I can say for sure, that calling them lazy or saying they have dropped the ball will accomplish nothing.

Arbitrary dates have been set and, apparently, questioning the will of the almighty FFG is tantamount to blasphemy.

Yes because hyperbolic sarcasm helps your case so much...

No, but it makes me feel better. We are only men.

I guess it just seems silly to me to release the wave a full month in advance of the rules that will allow us to play with said wave in any official capacity.

Since neither you or I know why they do anything, we have no place to judge if it's silly or not.

I can't even express how much I dislike this particular brand of shoulder-shruggery as if it is any sort of response to anything, ever.

Geeks? Patient? You're new aren't you?

Nerdrage is all the rage these days.

Nobody is raging.

We are distinctly impatient, as has been expressed, because it is a hindrance to our local community's official gameplay.

It seems popular to attempt to ridicule anyone who dares to show the tiniest sliver of impatience, though. What fun.

if a company released an expansion to a board game with incomplete rules for new mechanics or game modes (including how to score the game)

We are missing nothing. We can score a game just fine. What we can't do is properly score a official 400 point tournament. But the 'expansion' for that hasn't been released yet, instead people are effectively using proxies.

As for the entitlement accusations: I paid money to play this game. I am entitled to that for which I've paid money.

Yes you are, and there is nothing that is preventing you from doing exactly that.

I am dissatisfied with this state of affairs as a customer, and publicly expressing my displeasure with the company's actions--whether they're as a result of a written policy or not--is a perfectly reasonable response.

You're right it is, and I feel the same displeasure, I'm sure all of us do.

My posts aren't about defending FFG nearly so much as pointing out why the situation exists. That and pointing out that FFG can not actually have dropped the ball, when regardless of my opinion on the matter, they had no intention of releasing the FAQ this soon anyway.

If for example, Wave 2 came out in late October... We would still be waiting for the FAQ and MoV chart, not because FFG had dropped the ball, but rather because it wasn't due out yet in the first place.

We are distinctly impatient, as has been expressed, because it is a hindrance to our local community's official gameplay.

Until Jan 1st you have no official gameplay, you only have casual events following whatever rule set you chose to use.

If for example, Wave 2 came out in late October... We would still be waiting for the FAQ and MoV chart, not because FFG had dropped the ball, but rather because it wasn't due out yet in the first place.

And the fact that it wasn't due out yet in the first place IS where they dropped the ball.

The ball was dropped when somebody decided to release wave two a full month ahead of any official wave two tournament support.

Until people start playing official tournaments, FFG simply has no reason to update something, because the games the OP people care about, namely the OP ones, aren't happening.

See, you say that, but the fact is that we HAVE Wave two, we HAVE official winter tournament kits, and we ARE going to carry on playing tournaments bereft of an official MoV chart.

It's not slowing us down. It's not stopping us. ALL that's happening is we are being mildly annoyed that our first few tourney's scoring may not be consistent with the rest of 2016.

You're just restating what we've already said is the issue. FFG picked a seemingly arbitrary date to release tournament support well after the soft deadline of wave two.

THAT IT IS THE POLICY is not in question.

That it is a good idea, or something that shouldn't annoy, is under contention.

Yes because hyperbolic sarcasm helps your case so much...

Hyperbolic Sarcasm is my new favourite thing. I pledge to say it 10 times this week.

Hyperbolic Sarcasm (7pts)

Blue Crit: Target ship loses 2 morale tokens and must make a forum post about how "They're not angry, but..." next turn or suffer one face-up damage card.

Yes because hyperbolic sarcasm helps your case so much...

Hyperbolic Sarcasm is my new favourite thing. I pledge to say it 10 times this week.

Hyperbolic Sarcasm (7pts)

Blue Crit: Target ship loses 2 morale tokens and must make a forum post about how "They're not angry, but..." next turn or suffer one face-up damage card.

Clearly we're well past the point of no return.

Goodbye thread, we hardly knew ye.

The ball was dropped when somebody decided to release wave two a full month ahead of any official wave two tournament support.

Really? Which wave was that? Because Wave 2 wasn't released until Nov 26th... Which according to my calendar was less than two weeks ago, not months.

If you are truly bent out of shape because it's been a whole 11 days since release without a FAQ, then I won't bother any longer.

We are missing nothing. We can score a game just fine. What we can't do is properly score a official 400 point tournament. But the 'expansion' for that hasn't been released yet, instead people are effectively using proxies.

<snip>

That and pointing out that FFG can not actually have dropped the ball, when regardless of my opinion on the matter, they had no intention of releasing the FAQ this soon anyway.

If for example, Wave 2 came out in late October... We would still be waiting for the FAQ and MoV chart, not because FFG had dropped the ball, but rather because it wasn't due out yet in the first place.

I think maybe we disagree at the level of premises.

In North America, products are legal upon their release.

When Wave 2 is released, the official fleet size will increase to 400 points, the round time will increase to 150 minutes, and the Margin of Victory table will be updated.

I may be wrong, but that sounds to me a lot like "when Wave 2 products are released, the MoV will be updated."

Fantasy Flight Games’ Organized Play events are divided into three tiers of play. <snip> CASUAL

And that sounds to me like casual events are covered by OP. Which means that, as soon as Wave 2 is available for OP events, including casual games, the updated MoV will be available.

Again, I could be wrong. But the point is, it sounds pretty plainly to me like that's the case, which means my expectation of at least the MoV upon release of Wave 2 is reasonable. Which was a week and a half ago.

The ball was dropped when somebody decided to release wave two a full month ahead of any official wave two tournament support.

Really? Which wave was that? Because Wave 2 wasn't released until Nov 26th... Which according to my calendar was less than two weeks ago, not months.

If you are truly bent out of shape because it's been a whole 11 days since release without a FAQ, then I won't bother any longer.

My month figure is addressing the January 1 release date, and last I checked, November 26th is over a month away from January 1.

It's been an active 11 days, and with a league and a tourney to score in five days, yeah, I'm a little bent out of shape that I can't give my players an official scoring table.

But the point is, it sounds pretty plainly to me like that's the case, which means my expectation of at least the MoV upon release of Wave 2 is reasonable. Which was a week and a half ago.

Expecting a MoV update on the say or even a few weeks of release may be reasonable, but is not how FFG typically works. Especially the closer they get to the start of the next OP season.

For good or ill, they don't like to release more FAQ's or other documents then they have to. So they will hold back when it gets close to either the start of a new season, going from store championships to regionals, or worlds, or the release of a new wave in the middle of the season to update things.

I guess those of us who've been involved in X-Wing's OP have simply come to understand that's just how FFG works, and adjust our expectations accordingly.

When Wave 2 released I knew that we wouldn't see a FAQ until mid Dec at the soonest.

My month figure is addressing the January 1 release date

They'll release it before Jan 1st. I'd expect it to be out either this or next week. There needs to be a few weeks for everyone to get a chance to read it prior to Jan 1st.

I'm a little bent out of shape that I can't give my players an official scoring table.

I don't blame you. I run a X-Wing league and I'd feel the same way, but FAQ's aren't released based on people's leagues, they're released based on the needs of the OP season.

I'll also point out that I never once called anyone entitled, accused them of a sore rear end or anything else of the nature. So I'd appreciate it if you'd stop acting as if I had.

My month figure is addressing the January 1 release date

They'll release it before Jan 1st. I'd expect it to be out either this or next week. There needs to be a few weeks for everyone to get a chance to read it prior to Jan 1st.

I'm a little bent out of shape that I can't give my players an official scoring table.

I don't blame you. I run a X-Wing league and I'd feel the same way, but FAQ's aren't released based on people's leagues, they're released based on the needs of the OP season.

I'll also point out that I never once called anyone entitled, accused them of a sore rear end or anything else of the nature. So I'd appreciate it if you'd stop acting as if I had.

True, true. And I apologize if I've misdirected any ire your way.

I understand what you're saying, VanorDM, I really do.

It's just frustrating when you point at something you perceive as a problem and say "Hey guys this sucks" to which someone responds "That's the way it is". I fully understand that it's the way it is, the point of talking about it is to hopefully draw some attention so that, in the future, it might NOT be the way it is.

Often in threads like this it's easy to get frustrated by people who seem to be defending the status quo simply because it is the status quo. It really doesn't *need* defending, nor do the people complaining (generally) *need* the why of things explained to them, so it's hard to see them as helpful.

It's also tough to keep my tone from turning too curt when ridicule is so easy to come by. Being told we have no right to complain, or that we are silly for doing so, is a constant feature of threads like this, and my profound irritation at the tactic is probably exacerbated by years of experience rocking boats and being ridiculed for it.

I genuinely hope you're right and we see at LEAST an MoV chart by this weekend.

I'll also point out that I never once called anyone entitled, accused them of a sore rear end or anything else of the nature. So I'd appreciate it if you'd stop acting as if I had.

This is true, I didn't adequately clarify that that portion wasn't directed at you specifically, so I apologize. It was directed at those who are making those accusations; I just couldn't be bothered to go back and look at who it was.

And I apologize if I've misdirected any ire your way.

No problem, I know myself I will sometimes react to posts based on what other people said, even in completely different threads. Bring up sportsmanship for example and I tend to get aggressive fairly quickly because of the number of times I've fought that battle on the X-Wing forms already.

I fully understand that it's the way it is, the point of talking about it is to hopefully draw some attention so that, in the future, it might NOT be the way it is.

I get it, and I apologize myself if I came across as trying to belittle your issue. That wasn't my intent, rather I was trying to explain why things are how they are. But I let my own posts sound frustrated in response to your completely justified frustration.

Because I agree calling you or others who share your opinion entitled or worse isn't fair.

and my profound irritation at the tactic is probably exacerbated by years of experience rocking boats and being ridiculed for it.

Yeah I get that.

I genuinely hope you're right and we see at LEAST an MoV chart by this weekend.

Well if X-Wing is anything to go by, FAQ's and the like come out a couple weeks before the next step on the OP seasons is set to start.

Also if I may... For those of us who have been playing X-Wing for a while, our patience may seem, and in some cases may be a little thin, because we've been having this discussion for 2+ years already. Some of us I believe feel like the new Armada players are coming onto our turf and raising a stink over something we've settled already. So when we get involved in the discussion we may come off as intolerant perhaps? Out of a sense of both "been there done that" and "Who's the new kid?"

Neither of which is even remotely fair, and myself at least I'll make an effort to avoid coming off that way.

The game is complete and easily played cassually.

Your tourney rules and FAQ are gravy. Be happy they provide them at all.

...many gaming companies dont.

Think about that next time you call them incompetant. (An absurd descriptor when applied to FFG when it comes to gaming)

Actually, it's pretty accurate to call them incompetent. This year at worlds is the first time I've felt like they actually had a grasp of what it took to handle 50+ person events; the last few years has been a cluster for X-Wing (last year, they didn't know how the top32 was going to be paired coming from two different seed tournaments until the end of day 2) and wait time was frustrating for the LCGs (Netrunner was almost 30 min between rounds at least twice... and that was without waiting for games, and I heard similar grumblings from SWLCG).

While the games themselves are quality from the printed rules, to models, to the miles of cardboard - the organized play support and marketing are subpar. There's almost always an error in a preview article (Netrunner and GoT have yet to have a memorable mistake... but X-Wing and Armada: it's becoming laughable) and the distribution, availability, and limited runs of their OP kits is frustrating as a tournament organizer. The flip-flop on the damage deck in X-Wing is a sore eye, and there's not even a preview of upcoming material for Armada. There could be nothing remaining for the game: I know some complain that previews are out too far in advance, but I can't remember a time when there was NOTHING in the (public) hopper for a game of this scale. And to the point: especially with their first series of store-level premier tournaments coming up for Armada (Store Champs start in less than a month!) it would be a nice gesture to get everyone used to the new FAQ and tournament rules before then.

While I say these things in critique: I say them in hopes that FFG listens and makes the whole experience better for their players. FFG is better than some companies (UDE, Wizkids), but others are heads above (WotC, Privateer Press).

Yeah. at this point it seems they might really look to hire a few more hands to smooth things out. more production managers/scouters to find better ways of delivering on time, a few more people to help with marketing/writing articles/rules, a few statisticians to help with tournament data and competitive design,

on the plus side, i ehar their customer service is spot on.

oh. and the laughably unmanned forums. =P Like hellloooooooooooo is there anyone outtt thereeeee?

Hopefully they'll FAQ Akbar, clearly the additional 2 red dice was a misprint, it should be 3

And don't forget the part about having to discard a Bofin or suffer 1 damage.

I am beginning to get seriously frustrated that at the very least a new tournament margin chart has not been posted. Considering we have had Wave 2 for more than a week, and it arrived later than FFG expected they should already had this up by now. I also don't understand why we cannot get at least a more updated FAQ to.

In my area we are organizing two tournaments in the next two weekends, and also kicking off a 5 week league next weekend. It is irritating not having the proper info to run these thing appropriately.

Bump this if you want to see FFG post at least a tournament margin chart tonight.

As saner voices promised, everything is revealed before the new tournament season begins. Please untwist your undies now.

Tournament Rules: https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/e3/82/e3827f2b-9389-440b-b4d4-71a6b3f2e8bc/armada_tournament_rules_v2_high_res.pdf

FAQ: https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/d4/ee/d4eef29c-0edb-4e7c-bddb-cba5f3e80eb1/armada_faq_v2.pdf

In the slightly-probable event that they change something to a v.2.1 or some such, go to this page and scroll down: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/star-wars-armada/

2.1 is likely considering they missed the fleet building section update.