It's a game where Vader Wedge and Fel are seen more frequently than "generic red squadrons"

How often they're seen is irrelevant, my point was that PS 4 is high by non-named character standards, and that PS 4 generics have had EPT slots since Wave 1.

It's not THAT weird for a PS 4 character to have an EPT

It's a game where Vader Wedge and Fel are seen more frequently than "generic red squadrons"

How often they're seen is irrelevant, my point was that PS 4 is high by non-named character standards, and that PS 4 generics have had EPT slots since Wave 1.

It's not THAT weird for a PS 4 character to have an EPT

Yeah, then PS5 Black sun Ace is an ACE.

But Biggs is an ace? Really!?

just imagine how disguistingly weak the Jumpmaster shall be, with PS3 generic having a medal

and yeah, A-wing prototype PS3 pilots laugh manically

This is me inside when I field any A-Wing other than prototype pilot. And sometimes even then.

REBEL MASTER RACE

FILTHY EPT-LESS PEASANTS!

It's a game where Vader Wedge and Fel are seen more frequently than "generic red squadrons"

How often they're seen is irrelevant, my point was that PS 4 is high by non-named character standards, and that PS 4 generics have had EPT slots since Wave 1.

It's not THAT weird for a PS 4 character to have an EPT

Yeah, then PS5 Black sun Ace is an ACE.

But Biggs is an ace? Really!?

Yes, Biggs was one of the top pilots in the Rebel Alliance before he died. He was taught to fly by Soontir Fel the same as a great many other Red/Rogue Squadron pilots.

Some excerpts from wookiepedia:

"I flew with Biggs before Yavin and he was really good. It seemed like he could read the minds of TIE pilots. He knew when to break, when to shoot, and did everything necessary to stay in their ion exhaust and blast them to bits." ―Commander Wedge Antilles

Darklighter would go on to develop a reputation as a great pilot with the Rebellion, piloting an X-wing in several space battles.

Ezra isn't that skilled of a pilot, but with force abilities he may have some talents. Easy explanation.

All Jedis as pilots is starting to sound like a prequel thing. In the first episode Obi Wan did not fly he had to find a transport. Luke could fly as he already flew the Income T-16 skyhopper.

warrior icon but no pilot

pilot and warrior icon

With the EU, and with at least the prequels to a lesser extent, piloting as a particular specialization amongst Force sensitives does seem to be a thing, specifically Vader (Luke wasn't really much of a pilot), Plo Koon, Corran, and Jaina. It certainly helps in piloting because of the Sense/Control disciplines, but there weren't really that many "Newtypes" amongst the Jedi.

It's a game where Vader Wedge and Fel are seen more frequently than "generic red squadrons"

How often they're seen is irrelevant, my point was that PS 4 is high by non-named character standards, and that PS 4 generics have had EPT slots since Wave 1.

It's not THAT weird for a PS 4 character to have an EPT

Yeah, then PS5 Black sun Ace is an ACE.

But Biggs is an ace? Really!?

Yes, Biggs was one of the top pilots in the Rebel Alliance before he died.

"If he'd survived Yavin, we'd be reporting to him now." ―Commander Wedge Antilles

PS5 Talentless named pilot

who saw more action than Howlrunner early game

Only FFG knows the reason behind who gets an EPT and who doesn't. It does seem to some of us out here like some ships get them based on throwing darts against the wall and seeing what sticks. The biggest problem I see is that as more and more EPT's emerge that are as powerful as predator/lone wolf/outmaneuver those ships that can't access them are going to see the table much less. Only systems upgrades at this point really challenge EPT's for most desireable slot. That's why I think ships like the shuttle don't really seem to be hurting so bad for an EPT. Even the Y-Wing got thrown a bone by the EPT astromech. As time goes on things will only be worse for the poor old "aces" like Horton and Kir Kanos as more and more EPT's as great as predator hang just out of reach.

Elite Pilot Skill

on pilots with LOW PILOT SKILL

Elite Newbies?

Sounds like a bad scenario in P2W MMO xD

Actually it's an EPT - Elite Pilot Talent.

Pretty much sums it up.

Talent is not the same as skill.

Well, there's no way Ezra is an elite pilot, whether you base that determination on "skill" or "talent".

Horton is irritating because he is a famous rebel pilot without one but some unknown scum Y-Wing pilots score EPT's? That just looks like FFG realized the wave one mistake but won't rectify it.

Yep. Horton is the most jarring to me, because I've read the Rogue Squadron series of books and they really build up his pilot ability there. He's a semi-legendary Y-Wing pilot who Wedge obviously respects. That's only partially reflected in his PS and pilot ability (though he is pretty good with a TLT ).

Part of the reason that I think this is a silly argument is that you're trying to reason out a game mechanic instead of just looking at it as a Game Mechanic.

Ezra has an ability and a Pilot Skill. He is unique. They looked at the pool of EPT cards released and potentially the unreleased ones. If nothing seemed to break Ezra, it seems reasonable to add one to him given that he's a unique character, and not particularly powerful given the ship and ability. Allows him to then be slotted into a squad and tailored to fit his squad role a little better with an EPT. That's why he has an EPT, not because 'he's Jedi' or because 'FFG are correcting their mistakes'.

To ascribe current choices regarding pilots and why they do or don't have EPTs based on past examples has more to do with the game mechanics now, and the current design approach as evidenced by the various interviews released with the FFG Design crew. As to why Kir or the Y's or anyone else does or doesn't have an EPT, that's a past design approach, perhaps one that could have been done differently, but it's past now. I think we should stop reasoning current design approaches based on what could or should have done in the past, or on imaginary 'jedi/pilot skill' factors.

Jacob

Part of the reason that I think this is a silly argument is that you're trying to reason out a game mechanic instead of just looking at it as a Game Mechanic.

Ezra has an ability and a Pilot Skill. He is unique. They looked at the pool of EPT cards released and potentially the unreleased ones. If nothing seemed to break Ezra, it seems reasonable to add one to him given that he's a unique character, and not particularly powerful given the ship and ability. Allows him to then be slotted into a squad and tailored to fit his squad role a little better with an EPT. That's why he has an EPT, not because 'he's Jedi' or because 'FFG are correcting their mistakes'.

To ascribe current choices regarding pilots and why they do or don't have EPTs based on past examples has more to do with the game mechanics now, and the current design approach as evidenced by the various interviews released with the FFG Design crew. As to why Kir or the Y's or anyone else does or doesn't have an EPT, that's a past design approach, perhaps one that could have been done differently, but it's past now. I think we should stop reasoning current design approaches based on what could or should have done in the past, or on imaginary 'jedi/pilot skill' factors.

Jacob

People may have taken that position if FFG didn't have a trend now of "fixing" things. Since that is the trend people now look at pilots that collect dust and theorize about what would make them good. EPTs are seen as a good easy way to give unused pilots a lot of options for being useable.

Ezra was Jedi, so maybe he had some 'talent'.

Also he was a kid with not much space flight practice, so maybe that explains PS4.

(Note: I did not state he was a Knight or Master, just Jedi.)

would make more sense the other way around. he is a jedi so high PS but he has no real piloting practice so no ept

Part of the reason that I think this is a silly argument is that you're trying to reason out a game mechanic instead of just looking at it as a Game Mechanic.

Ezra has an ability and a Pilot Skill. He is unique. They looked at the pool of EPT cards released and potentially the unreleased ones. If nothing seemed to break Ezra, it seems reasonable to add one to him given that he's a unique character, and not particularly powerful given the ship and ability. Allows him to then be slotted into a squad and tailored to fit his squad role a little better with an EPT. That's why he has an EPT, not because 'he's Jedi' or because 'FFG are correcting their mistakes'.

To ascribe current choices regarding pilots and why they do or don't have EPTs based on past examples has more to do with the game mechanics now, and the current design approach as evidenced by the various interviews released with the FFG Design crew. As to why Kir or the Y's or anyone else does or doesn't have an EPT, that's a past design approach, perhaps one that could have been done differently, but it's past now. I think we should stop reasoning current design approaches based on what could or should have done in the past, or on imaginary 'jedi/pilot skill' factors.

Jacob

People may have taken that position if FFG didn't have a trend now of "fixing" things. Since that is the trend people now look at pilots that collect dust and theorize about what would make them good. EPTs are seen as a good easy way to give unused pilots a lot of options for being useable.

Yeah, except the fixing is happening to ships, not to pilots. Can you give me an example where they've errata'd any pilot to add an EPT?

Jacob

Part of the reason that I think this is a silly argument is that you're trying to reason out a game mechanic instead of just looking at it as a Game Mechanic.

Ezra has an ability and a Pilot Skill. He is unique. They looked at the pool of EPT cards released and potentially the unreleased ones. If nothing seemed to break Ezra, it seems reasonable to add one to him given that he's a unique character, and not particularly powerful given the ship and ability. Allows him to then be slotted into a squad and tailored to fit his squad role a little better with an EPT. That's why he has an EPT, not because 'he's Jedi' or because 'FFG are correcting their mistakes'.

To ascribe current choices regarding pilots and why they do or don't have EPTs based on past examples has more to do with the game mechanics now, and the current design approach as evidenced by the various interviews released with the FFG Design crew. As to why Kir or the Y's or anyone else does or doesn't have an EPT, that's a past design approach, perhaps one that could have been done differently, but it's past now. I think we should stop reasoning current design approaches based on what could or should have done in the past, or on imaginary 'jedi/pilot skill' factors.

Jacob

People may have taken that position if FFG didn't have a trend now of "fixing" things. Since that is the trend people now look at pilots that collect dust and theorize about what would make them good. EPTs are seen as a good easy way to give unused pilots a lot of options for being useable.

Yeah, except the fixing is happening to ships, not to pilots. Can you give me an example where they've errata'd any pilot to add an EPT?

Jacob

No, but that doesn't mean it isn't possible. They could "fix" pilots with a "ship" fix since they go hand in hand.

Most mid level pilots without an EPT would immediately see some to moderate play with an EPT. Have yet to come up with a broken combo by giving any PS4+ unique pilot an EPT. Seriously, come up with your best combo. It doesn't hold a candle to Fel or dash or brobots.

IF, and it's a big big IF, you can come up with one then limit it to higher PS or just make it a unique upgrade.

Lambdas barrel rolling? Named pilots might actually see play. Kir with +1 dmg a round at the cost of positioning requirements? I'm ok with that. Graz can take...um...predator? Laetin can get a focus and evade? Seriously... None of those are even close to the power levels of most elite pilots.

Most mid level pilots without an EPT would immediately see some to moderate play with an EPT. Have yet to come up with a broken combo by giving any PS4+ unique pilot an EPT. Seriously, come up with your best combo. It doesn't hold a candle to Fel or dash or brobots.

IF, and it's a big big IF, you can come up with one then limit it to higher PS or just make it a unique upgrade.

Lambdas barrel rolling? Named pilots might actually see play. Kir with +1 dmg a round at the cost of positioning requirements? I'm ok with that. Graz can take...um...predator? Laetin can get a focus and evade? Seriously... None of those are even close to the power levels of most elite pilots.

Preach it brother! I want to love Kir Kanos but he just can't be loveable yet.

Oh, I'm in agreement - all pilots would benefit from having an EPT if they don't already, the question I don't think is if it does or doesn't seem like a good idea to have one on the pilots mentioned above.

I just think it's silly to assume that Ezra, given that his character is an untrained pilot, but who's training to be a Jedi, is being compared by lore, rather than by simple game mechanic issues. There's no reason to assume that one has anything to do with the other, given that the current design philosophy and practice is not necessarily the same as the old.

Jacob

Jedi = mary sue

mary sue = unique, perfect snowflake in any sense

perfect = has an ability and EPT

???

Jedi Scum!

Most mid level pilots without an EPT would immediately see some to moderate play with an EPT. Have yet to come up with a broken combo by giving any PS4+ unique pilot an EPT. Seriously, come up with your best combo. It doesn't hold a candle to Fel or dash or brobots.

Calculation on Wampa would be pretty sick.

Preach it brother! I want to love Kir Kanos but he just can't be loveable yet.

Have you tried hitting him? Quite often you're looking at a stealth deviced, autothrustering, five to six green dice with an evade token.

Great for the late game while plunging away. Juke would just be icing on the cake.

Ezra was Jedi, so maybe he had some 'talent'.

Also he was a kid with not much space flight practice, so maybe that explains PS4.

(Note: I did not state he was a Knight or Master, just Jedi.)

would make more sense the other way around. he is a jedi so high PS but he has no real piloting practice so no ept

By the way, FFG has figured out a way to keep people from getting headaches over the fact that low PILOT SKILL pilots can have the 'EPT' slot: They changed it to just "Elite" upgrade in the new Rule Reference, so nobody should be bothered by the fact that a pilot in this game can fly average and still have some talent that helps them IN COMBAT.j

Part of the reason that I think this is a silly argument is that you're trying to reason out a game mechanic instead of just looking at it as a Game Mechanic.

Ezra has an ability and a Pilot Skill. He is unique. They looked at the pool of EPT cards released and potentially the unreleased ones. If nothing seemed to break Ezra, it seems reasonable to add one to him given that he's a unique character, and not particularly powerful given the ship and ability. Allows him to then be slotted into a squad and tailored to fit his squad role a little better with an EPT. That's why he has an EPT, not because 'he's Jedi' or because 'FFG are correcting their mistakes'.

To ascribe current choices regarding pilots and why they do or don't have EPTs based on past examples has more to do with the game mechanics now, and the current design approach as evidenced by the various interviews released with the FFG Design crew. As to why Kir or the Y's or anyone else does or doesn't have an EPT, that's a past design approach, perhaps one that could have been done differently, but it's past now. I think we should stop reasoning current design approaches based on what could or should have done in the past, or on imaginary 'jedi/pilot skill' factors.

Jacob

People may have taken that position if FFG didn't have a trend now of "fixing" things. Since that is the trend people now look at pilots that collect dust and theorize about what would make them good. EPTs are seen as a good easy way to give unused pilots a lot of options for being useable.

Yeah, except the fixing is happening to ships, not to pilots. Can you give me an example where they've errata'd any pilot to add an EPT?

Jacob

Why would it take an errata? Autothrusters was an obvious fix to Tie Interceptors and other boosting arc-dodgers, and it's not an errata. The A-Wing got Chaardan Refit and the Tie Advanced got TWO upgrade cards to fix it.

As for pilots - Boba Fett and Kath Scarlett both got improved when they were made in S&V form. Same ship, same pilots, way better functionality. FFG could certainly release new versions of old pilots in an upcoming expansion, even releasing new versions of the same pilot for the same faction. It's quite possible, and it's not far afield from what they have done in the past.

Ezra shouldn't have an Elite upgrade slot, based on the character and the abilities he has currently shown. There's nothing "Elite" about Ezra...his budding Jedi abilities could be adequately represented by his pilot ability.

I actually like that there are non-unique pilots that get an Elite upgrade slot...the stories we have can't cover all the excellent pilots that are out there flying ships in the Star Wars universe, and there are whole squadrons out there known for their elite pilots (Saber Squadron, the Royal Guard, etc.). Without releasing every pilot for the ship that an elite squadron uses, a "generic" with an Elite upgrade slot lets us give character to these unknown, but elite, pilots.

Ezra's different. He's actually covered in these stories pretty well, and we know quite a bit about Ezra's abilities base on the show. IMO, Ezra shouldn't have an Elite upgrade slot, based on the character and the abilities he has currently shown. There's nothing "elite" about Ezra as a pilot...his budding Jedi abilities could be adequately represented by his pilot ability. It doesn't anger me or anything ( ), it's just a bit jarring. I'd love to know the design justification for the Elite upgrade slot on Ezra.

Jedi = mary sue

mary sue = unique, perfect snowflake in any sense

perfect = has an ability and EPT

???Jedi Scum!

Its just like I said, Jedi can cheat

But for real, gameplay >>>>>>>>>>>>>> fluff every **** time

I'd bet there'd be a lot more confusion if he didn't have an ept and was meerly nighonuseless instead

Jedi = mary sue

mary sue = unique, perfect snowflake in any sense

perfect = has an ability and EPT

???Jedi Scum!

Nah

Its just like I said, Jedi can cheat

But for real, gameplay >>>>>>>>>>>>>> fluff every **** time

I'd bet there'd be a lot more confusion if he didn't have an ept and was meerly nighonuseless instead

I wouldn't have cared if he didn't have an EPT. If a legendary rebel hero like Horton doesn't get one then this punk teenager shouldn't either!

Jedi = mary sue

mary sue = unique, perfect snowflake in any sense

perfect = has an ability and EPT

???Jedi Scum!

Nah

Its just like I said, Jedi can cheat

But for real, gameplay >>>>>>>>>>>>>> fluff every **** time

I'd bet there'd be a lot more confusion if he didn't have an ept and was meerly nighonuseless instead

I wouldn't have cared if he didn't have an EPT. If a legendary rebel hero like Horton doesn't get one then this punk teenager shouldn't either!

a lot of other people would. It would be a horrible waste of design space and unduely impact the Ghost that could have otherwise made use of him

plus, as already said, Horton was a mistake on FFG's part (motherlover survived the 2nd Deathstar in a Y-wing; should have an EPT regardless of which other pilots do or do not)

there's literally no reason to attach that to the new stuff, unless you prefer a game that never learns from its past mistakes

this is one of the many reasons gameplay takes strict priority over fluff. Sure, it's good to base it on fluff, but if there's ever something that needs to be sacrificed, then fluff gets an all-expenses paid trip out the air-lock. "Acceptable Loses" won't even begin to describe how much more important the gameplay is

people will buy any crap with a StarWars logo plastered over it, but this game didn't endure since 2012 by just parading around its license

Part of the reason that I think this is a silly argument is that you're trying to reason out a game mechanic instead of just looking at it as a Game Mechanic.

Ezra has an ability and a Pilot Skill. He is unique. They looked at the pool of EPT cards released and potentially the unreleased ones. If nothing seemed to break Ezra, it seems reasonable to add one to him given that he's a unique character, and not particularly powerful given the ship and ability. Allows him to then be slotted into a squad and tailored to fit his squad role a little better with an EPT. That's why he has an EPT, not because 'he's Jedi' or because 'FFG are correcting their mistakes'.

To ascribe current choices regarding pilots and why they do or don't have EPTs based on past examples has more to do with the game mechanics now, and the current design approach as evidenced by the various interviews released with the FFG Design crew. As to why Kir or the Y's or anyone else does or doesn't have an EPT, that's a past design approach, perhaps one that could have been done differently, but it's past now. I think we should stop reasoning current design approaches based on what could or should have done in the past, or on imaginary 'jedi/pilot skill' factors.

Jacob

People may have taken that position if FFG didn't have a trend now of "fixing" things. Since that is the trend people now look at pilots that collect dust and theorize about what would make them good. EPTs are seen as a good easy way to give unused pilots a lot of options for being useable.

Yeah, except the fixing is happening to ships, not to pilots. Can you give me an example where they've errata'd any pilot to add an EPT?

Jacob

Why would it take an errata? Autothrusters was an obvious fix to Tie Interceptors and other boosting arc-dodgers, and it's not an errata. The A-Wing got Chaardan Refit and the Tie Advanced got TWO upgrade cards to fix it.

As for pilots - Boba Fett and Kath Scarlett both got improved when they were made in S&V form. Same ship, same pilots, way better functionality. FFG could certainly release new versions of old pilots in an upcoming expansion, even releasing new versions of the same pilot for the same faction. It's quite possible, and it's not far afield from what they have done in the past.

Ezra shouldn't have an Elite upgrade slot, based on the character and the abilities he has currently shown. There's nothing "Elite" about Ezra...his budding Jedi abilities could be adequately represented by his pilot ability.

I actually like that there are non-unique pilots that get an Elite upgrade slot...the stories we have can't cover all the excellent pilots that are out there flying ships in the Star Wars universe, and there are whole squadrons out there known for their elite pilots (Saber Squadron, the Royal Guard, etc.). Without releasing every pilot for the ship that an elite squadron uses, a "generic" with an Elite upgrade slot lets us give character to these unknown, but elite, pilots.

Ezra's different. He's actually covered in these stories pretty well, and we know quite a bit about Ezra's abilities base on the show. IMO, Ezra shouldn't have an Elite upgrade slot, based on the character and the abilities he has currently shown. There's nothing "elite" about Ezra as a pilot...his budding Jedi abilities could be adequately represented by his pilot ability. It doesn't anger me or anything ( ), it's just a bit jarring. I'd love to know the design justification for the Elite upgrade slot on Ezra.

This is precisely what I'm talking about. You are equating a Television character, or more precisely, your understanding of a television character as he is being represented thus far, with the entirety of whom that character might be moving forward and throughout time, as representing all of who he is in the X-Wing game and how he should be represented in GAME PLAY MECHANICS.

By that token, we know less of and have seen almost nothing of several of the X-Wing and Tie Fighter pilots we have little to no reason to assume any of them deserve their elite upgrades.

The point is, this is about Game Play Mechanics, not about lore. You, and others in this thread are equating them, and they're not the same. You're basing your understanding of Ezra's Elite Upgrade based on your current understanding of the character given the limited screen evidence, and not giving the same weight to characters you think should have them (Horton, Kir, etc.)

Again, this is about current Gameplay Mechanic decisions, and it's obvious that the current people designing the game are moving a very specific direction. Wherever possible, they are giving pilots Elite upgrades. The only exceptions seem to be pilots that would be broken if given that upgrade slot. The new Tie Pilots in the Gozanti pack as evidence of this.

Jacob