So what is everyone's thoughts on which wave 2 ship as made the most impact.

For me it's the MC30, as this ship is completely different in role to previous rebel ships. Never before have the rebels had a fast, black dice, torpedo/Missile carrying close in high damage output puncher. This gives a whole new set of tactics and builds for the rebels.

For the other ships I tend to think of them as upgrades to roles that arlready exist, they are all great and add flexibility but:

MC80 seems to act like an upgraded heavy version of an assault frigate.

ISD, is a faster, upgraded VSD.

Raider is a cheaper, lighter version of a glad.

For me it's a tie between a natural speed 4 Imperial ship and Black dice Rebel ship.

The MC80 and the ISD are just kinda too familiar.

So far...

The most game changing thing for me is the more frequent use higher activation carrier ships. Like the ISD and MC80, and thus the more frequent use of squadrons. Squadrons on the table changes the game the most frequently.

Raider. Speed 4 for empire is game changing for them.

Ignoring Upgrades so this doesn't devolve into an Ackbar argument again...

Firesprays. The threat of 3 of those babies forces people to run screens... Which in turn means running escorts for the Firesprays (Or a jumpmaster).

Honorable mention to the Raider, though, since speed 4 is a big deal for the Empire. I love how different it feels from the Corvette as well.

The MC30 seems like it's going to be a tricky, highly technical ship due to that price tag, which reduces it's impact.

Are we keeping it to ships? Because rogues/villains completely blew apart the previous squadron game. Between firesprays, rogue, and intel, at this point you are pretty much obligated to bring some form of fighter screen.

But limited to ships, I'll actually say the ISD. I haven't had a ton of table experience in wave 2, so I reserve the right to change my vote later, but thus far I've found having a weapons platform like the ISD-2 that can race in at speed 3 opens up the maneuvering options of the empire considerably.

Definitely the ISD. The speed, power and hull points offered by the ship is unmatched in the game so far. You pay for it, but its a very good price to pay.

Definitely the ISD. The speed, power and hull points offered by the ship is unmatched in the game so far. You pay for it, but its a very good price to pay.

Or pay for two. Or even three

Well, we have seen two of the three normal archetypes for winning tournaments in these kinds of games already:

1. All in Aggression (gencon special)
2. All out maneuverability (whales and nothing but)

What we haven't seen are spam lists and points denial lists. Spam, I think, will be difficult in Armada unless carefully constructed because of the 360 shooting nature of ships and the fact that the current scoring system actively discourages it for larger tournaments.

So I am going to predict the ISD, because I think a VP denial list with Imperials just got a lot more playable.

The isd2 is pretty revolutionary IMO

Imperials with decent range...whodathunkit?

The isd2 is pretty revolutionary IMO

Imperials with decent range...whodathunkit?

And speed.

And survivability (on the II, at least).

And recharged Xi7s. (Oh wait, forgot we're not talking about upgrades... nvm ).

I think it's the ISD, too. Bigger, faster, stronger than anything in Wave I, to the point that its playstyle can be totally different from a Vic's. It gets up in your grill fast, it can take a (calculated) beating while it's doing so, and once its there, it has the dice to destroy and the speed/range/upgrade slots available to pursue.

That said, the presence of the Raider is what makes so many lists featuring an ISD (or multiple ISDs) work: low point cost, great speed, covers an ISD's weak spots, offers deployment/activation flexibility, etc. Just having something semi-cheap for the Empire to spam/fill point gaps is huge. So... maybe the Raider?

I unfortunately do not have any of the expansions yet, but I would think that the MC80 assault cruiser would have the best survivability, between the high shields and the ability to take AP and ECM.

Ignoring Upgrades so this doesn't devolve into an Ackbar argument again...

Firesprays. The threat of 3 of those babies forces people to run screens... Which in turn means running escorts for the Firesprays (Or a jumpmaster).

Honorable mention to the Raider, though, since speed 4 is a big deal for the Empire. I love how different it feels from the Corvette as well.

The MC30 seems like it's going to be a tricky, highly technical ship due to that price tag, which reduces it's impact.

They also cost 54 points for three squadron bases.

That same amount of points would buy Rhymer and four TIE bombers, which would similarly necessitate a fighter screen and have significantly more HP spread across more bases, not to mention the fact that your Firesprays are going to sit there for the whole ship phase politely waiting to be engaged by interceptors.

I'm just not getting the hype.

To answer the OP:

The Raider and the MC30.

They both occupy a similar role, which is to say giving each fleet what it didn't already have. The ISD and the MC80 are more of the same. The Raider and the Shrimp bring a whole new level of possibility.

I am plesantly surprised by the Mc30. I was struggling to find a place for this ship in my fleet before I got my hands on it. Once it arrived I played a game where I used all the new wave 2 stuff on each side I had Ackbar, MC80, MC30, CR90 and all R&V rebel heroes VS Vader, ISD, Glad, Raider and all R$V Imperial heroes and ended up loving the MC30 scout.

The scout MC30 makes a great escort for Home one. Being able to lob red dice at long range it can then accelerate and engage any ships that get to close to Home One for comfort. I used this list for the sole purpose of getting the feel for the new ships but think I will continue using it with only a modification to the Squadrons.

Imperial players remember Glads can go speed 4 too! But yea ISD gives imperial players more flexibility.

I need to actually play some ISDs. I've already killed a few... but never flown them.

Talking exclusively ships, it is a toss up for me. The MC30 has impressed, but the MC80 and ISD have both also been great. The Raider is honestly the only one I find wanting. If we were to include squadrons, it would be the Intel ships in general and Jan in particular. She has such a huge impact on squadron play.

Imperial players remember Glads can go speed 4 too! But yea ISD gives imperial players more flexibility.

Yeah, but a Raider can go speed 4 for 44 pts, not to mention turn 90 degrees at speed 2.

Imperial players remember Glads can go speed 4 too! But yea ISD gives imperial players more flexibility.

How?

For me it is the Raider, a fast anti squadron ship adds a lot to the Imperial current fleet, and is different to what they currently have. It can also hunt down damaged ships that are trying to get away from the Imperial Fleet.

Having just 1 command also means it can respond to a shifting battle more easily, it also has a very mobile movement capability. It also has a small points cost, so can be fielded en-mass. This is some thing that the Imperial have not been able to do until now, and offers a whole new way to play the game.

For these reasons it adds more than the other ships, which are all just more of the same to some degree.

Talking exclusively ships, it is a toss up for me. The MC30 has impressed, but the MC80 and ISD have both also been great. The Raider is honestly the only one I find wanting. If we were to include squadrons, it would be the Intel ships in general and Jan in particular. She has such a huge impact on squadron play.

How has the Mc30 impressed you?

Mine experience with it is really weird. Its 102 points of doing nothing.... yet I still win the games for some reason. Something psychological of fearing the monster, and makes my opponents forget that the AFs I'm running still fart out ISD+ levels of red dice.

I think I've literally gotten 2 volleys of black out in 3 games. And only about 4 red volleys at all.

Also sadly, with the sides facing them, sometimes they can fire at the rear. Took a shot at close range with accuracies on both redirects.. after APTs and being rammed by an VSD, was at 1hull.

Man. if you get 2 accuracies, that poor ****** is toast.

I'm thinking I might just choose to be first player more with that ship in the list.

Whee contested outpost... ><

Imperial players remember Glads can go speed 4 too! But yea ISD gives imperial players more flexibility.

How?

For me it is the Raider, a fast anti squadron ship adds a lot to the Imperial current fleet, and is different to what they currently have. It can also hunt down damaged ships that are trying to get away from the Imperial Fleet.

Having just 1 command also means it can respond to a shifting battle more easily, it also has a very mobile movement capability. It also has a small points cost, so can be fielded en-mass. This is some thing that the Imperial have not been able to do until now, and offers a whole new way to play the game.

For these reasons it adds more than the other ships, which are all just more of the same to some degree.

Right?

Suddenly we can pick Intel Sweep and not get totally outplayed. How exciting! lol

Ignoring Upgrades so this doesn't devolve into an Ackbar argument again...

Firesprays. The threat of 3 of those babies forces people to run screens... Which in turn means running escorts for the Firesprays (Or a jumpmaster).

Honorable mention to the Raider, though, since speed 4 is a big deal for the Empire. I love how different it feels from the Corvette as well.

The MC30 seems like it's going to be a tricky, highly technical ship due to that price tag, which reduces it's impact.

They also cost 54 points for three squadron bases.

That same amount of points would buy Rhymer and four TIE bombers, which would similarly necessitate a fighter screen and have significantly more HP spread across more bases, not to mention the fact that your Firesprays are going to sit there for the whole ship phase politely waiting to be engaged by interceptors.

I'm just not getting the hype.

What the firespray does have going for it is total self-sufficiency against squadron-less lists. Previously all ship lists could try to take out carriers and ignore the now crippled bombers (Granted, there are ways to make that near-impossible, but the early squadron game took a while to catch onto how much support fighters needed- Or rather, how much was overkill). 3 Firespray will continue to make short work of enemy ships even when you're down to a Raider and a crippled fleeing gladiator.

So, it's more the threat of firespray than the firespray themselves. But there is a reason for the hype.

Ignoring Upgrades so this doesn't devolve into an Ackbar argument again...

Firesprays. The threat of 3 of those babies forces people to run screens... Which in turn means running escorts for the Firesprays (Or a jumpmaster).

Honorable mention to the Raider, though, since speed 4 is a big deal for the Empire. I love how different it feels from the Corvette as well.

The MC30 seems like it's going to be a tricky, highly technical ship due to that price tag, which reduces it's impact.

They also cost 54 points for three squadron bases.

That same amount of points would buy Rhymer and four TIE bombers, which would similarly necessitate a fighter screen and have significantly more HP spread across more bases, not to mention the fact that your Firesprays are going to sit there for the whole ship phase politely waiting to be engaged by interceptors.

I'm just not getting the hype.

The firespray itself is nothing special compared to other fighters. It's anti-squadron armament is laughable for that cost and it's battery armament is less efficient point for point than the Tie Bomber, Y-wing, H-6, and B-wing.

What the firespray does have going for it is total self-sufficiency against squadron-less lists. Previously all ship lists could try to take out carriers and ignore the now crippled bombers (Granted, there are ways to make that near-impossible, but the early squadron game took a while to catch onto how much support fighters needed- Or rather, how much was overkill). 3 Firespray will continue to make short work of enemy ships even when you're down to a Raider and a crippled fleeing gladiator.

So, it's more the threat of firespray than the firespray themselves. But there is a reason for the hype.

I confess, I feel that I need more time with Rogues on the table before I've really figured out how to use them to maximum effect.

I keep getting them killed.

Rogues cannot win a straight fight against Wave 1 squadrons unless you have a significant point advantage. The Wave 1 Squadrons should be going first against rogues, and even if they don't the rogue advantage is often irrelevan in the dogfight. Wave 1 squadrons are also much more efficient, and they outnumber the rogues.

Which is why you can't give them a fair fight. Now, I haven't had a chance to try it, but my best bet is that they're going to demand surprisingly conservative play to work.

For me, trying to learn Imperials, Dengar is a godsend for my TIE swarm. I don't like to dump more than 70 points or so in squads, so I focus on a prevent fighter screen.

But the Raider and MC30 are still my tied picks for biggest change.