Having flown both factions, I would say that Ackbar is very solid. There's also a lot of solid choices from both factions, so I don't want this to sound like Ackbar is clear best out of everyone. He's nowhere at that level.

If you were only playing Imperials, I would seriously look into a pair of Raiders with APTs and Ordnance Experts. They absolutely ruin Ackbar fleets that just try and sail horizontally with broadsides because they're able to block the entire line. Once the line is blocked, overwhelm the Home One's firing arc with the ISD, Glad or even more Raiders. Just make sure you saturate one broadside because he can only shoot at one ship at a time. Once that happens, 8 hull goes down quickly. Once the APTs fire and you start ramming the Home One, he's as good as dead.

With my Imperial Ozzel list, I've been able to kill the MC80 from a good half the time. 8 hull really goes by quick.

Which would be better, Ozzel for the maneuverability or Screed for the guarantee crits and increased damage?

Which would be better, Ozzel for the maneuverability or Screed for the guarantee crits and increased damage?

Between those 2, I'd vote for Ozzel. You aren't likely to out shoot him, so you need to out position him. Having played vs Ozzel with Ackbar, my opponent was able to quickly change distances and get favorable attack angles. Stil, it was his first game with Ozzel, so he made errors. Each error led to a dead ship.

The obvious bit is that Ackbar gives extra red dice. He encourages broadsides style battle lines. I'd been playing those lists in Wave 1 and found that the real benefit was how easy they made it to get my fire arcs to overlap. I could always shoot at one target with multiple ships. VSDs struggled with that because they have poor maneuverability. GSDs struggle with that because of their poor range. Ackbar boosted CR-90s are amazing at being able to gang up on a target, not to mention MC-30s or Whales.

Increasing long range firepower makes it easy for multiple ships to make strong attacks at the same target. That is what makes Ackbar especially awesome when I play with him.

If I was building to take him out, I'd look at how I can maneuver to to accomplish that same trick. I'd try to attack the lead ship with multiple ships of my own. I tend to think Raiders and MC-30s would work best. Ozzel could work, but I'd likely go with Vader to make my shots count.

Which would be better, Ozzel for the maneuverability or Screed for the guarantee crits and increased damage?

Ordnance Experts pretty much guarantees what Screed is already capable of. Ozzel provides something that's just available to the rest of the fleet, which is the ability to move like UFOs and be completely unpredictable.

Hmm... I just dreamed up a VSD-GSD-GSD-RDR-RDR list using Screed. To make up for the maneuverability I lose with ozzel I gave the GSDs nav teams with Nav officers, Expanded Launchers and sensor teams (to blow off one red die to use the other for accuracy). The Raiders have Intel officers and APTs.

Part of the reason Is because I want to see if an assault list like this (with a Tractor beam + Expanded Launchers VSD boat anchor) can work, and to see if a screed-crit list can work. Another is because I don't think I'll have many Ordnance Experts to spread in a fleet, and I'd still like to consider lists I can take in tournaments... which limits my card pool. Ordnance Experts are only one in each Raider and MC30 right? I have three incoming.

I have a friend who likes to fly Akbar (he took first in both Sullust events he played). He will Usually start his MC80 Angled near a corner of his deployment, 2 smaller ships facing in slightly different directions on its flanks, and a mixed fighter cloud between them.

He tends to swing out in different arcs before closing back in. The result is that if you have a good shot in a safe place against one of his ships, you are eating a broadside from another one. Flying in his fronts and rears, Raiders, and mass fighter/bomber clouds have not worked for my thus far.

I will keep trying, but its a tough list, and hes a good player.

I had the chance to play against Ackbar the other day for the first time, and we decided to play a big 600 point game. With my opponents 7 ships that was a lot of extra red dice! I lost my ISD2 with Tarkin on the second turn from 2 AF and 2 CR90's (I especially underestimated these things) going from full health to dead in 1 turn was definitely shocking to say the least. It was definitely a trap, but not for the rebels! Has anyone else experienced the red dice madness that is Ackbar? What is the best way to combat this as the Empire?

Wow, fastest I've heard of an ISD going down, but that's at 600 points (love those big games). Most folks (including the Empire itself) tend to ignore CR90s until it's too late - perhaps that's a good lesson for us to take from this.

I can confirm a Glad is the answer. Park a Glad in the front arc, making sure you are not in a side arc at all, and go to town. The MC80 only has 8 hull and will go down fairly quickly to concentrated fire and cannot maneuver enough to get those side arcs somewhere useful.

Of course this is not fool proof and will take some planning to get your ships where you want them when you want them there but that is what this game is all about.

It's worth noting that the Gladiator can be positioned in such a way as to hit the front/rear of a Large base ship with BOTH side arcs.

Tricky, but worthwhile.

Same with the MC30, so watch out!

Would Motti with atleast two ISD2 + assorted support ships and squadrons, not be a tough nut to crack even for an Ackbar list?

Having two 14 hull ships, should make them survive long enough to throw in some punches in return.

Akbar isn't as crazy nor as easy as I thought he'd be. Powerful, sure, but not dumb

Positioned properly, the isd-2 will shred opposing broadsides in short order with its great range. Well played raiders/gsds/even freaking NEB's can block a ship and pin it down while the rest of the fleet kicks its teeth in

And, of course, tbeams punish conga lines HARD and force more complex flying on Akbar's part

Finally, while home one is disgusting, it is also fat and slow and not incredibly easy to run in a formation, or to keep from being exposed when not part of one

All in all, I like akbar. He promotes the need for good positioning, even if he reduces it for the controlling player (which only opens up additional maneuvering options without sacrificing firepower)

I have a friend who likes to fly Akbar (he took first in both Sullust events he played). He will Usually start his MC80 Angled near a corner of his deployment, 2 smaller ships facing in slightly different directions on its flanks, and a mixed fighter cloud between them.

He tends to swing out in different arcs before closing back in. The result is that if you have a good shot in a safe place against one of his ships, you are eating a broadside from another one. Flying in his fronts and rears, Raiders, and mass fighter/bomber clouds have not worked for my thus far.

I will keep trying, but its a tough list, and hes a good player.

I've been worried about this, too. In theory, flying into and attacking from a forward arc sounds like the correct play, but the side arcs on AFIIs and MC-80s are so incredibly wide that a small turn can put the forward hull zone of a lead ship in range of cover fire. On AFIIs with Gunnery Teams, in particular, this can expose a blocker to fire, while still allowing the AFII to keep whatever else is closing on the Conga line at bay.

Keep at it, we will crack this thing... surely we will crack this thing...

* * *

And, of course, tbeams punish conga lines HARD and force more complex flying on Akbar's part

* * *

I have been wondering lately whether I need to make a more concerted effort to get Tractors into my lists. I played an Ackbar list last week, and had to slow down one of my middle ships from speed 2 to speed 1 to avoid a collision with a rock, and it really messed up the progression of the line for a couple of rounds. I usually don't like spending 6 points on that upgrade when there are others I could take, but being able to apply a couple of slows consistently definitely has some appeal.

Hmm... I just dreamed up a VSD-GSD-GSD-RDR-RDR list using Screed. To make up for the maneuverability I lose with ozzel I gave the GSDs nav teams with Nav officers, Expanded Launchers and sensor teams (to blow off one red die to use the other for accuracy). The Raiders have Intel officers and APTs.

Part of the reason Is because I want to see if an assault list like this (with a Tractor beam + Expanded Launchers VSD boat anchor) can work, and to see if a screed-crit list can work. Another is because I don't think I'll have many Ordnance Experts to spread in a fleet, and I'd still like to consider lists I can take in tournaments... which limits my card pool. Ordnance Experts are only one in each Raider and MC30 right? I have three incoming.

Great to see there's other people who dream about this stuff. I was getting worried it was only me...

Imo, if you're taking a VSD, you're taking T-beams

it compensates for their shite maneuverability very **** well

the caveat, however, is that t-beams need to be present in multiples. Just one will be negated by a navigate command, while two-three will hammer a ship down to speed 1 and it can only go up to speed 2 without outside influence (raymus, ozzel etc.) which is the VSD's top speed

if you don't have two vsds in a list, the ISD could also use a T-beam

I don't think they're worth it on small ships, however, because they can't lock down Afmk2s

T-beam VSDs work quite well with Rogue, since those free up the command dial for spammed navigates. Plus, if you have around four (which is the max I can fit with an ISD-2 + 2 VSD), you can always surprise Squadron with the ISD-2

Imo, if you're taking a VSD, you're taking T-beams

it compensates for their shite maneuverability very **** well

the caveat, however, is that t-beams need to be present in multiples. Just one will be negated by a navigate command, while two-three will hammer a ship down to speed 1 and it can only go up to speed 2 without outside influence (raymus, ozzel etc.) which is the VSD's top speed

if you don't have two vsds in a list, the ISD could also use a T-beam

I don't think they're worth it on small ships, however, because they can't lock down Afmk2s

T-beam VSDs work quite well with Rogue, since those free up the command dial for spammed navigates. Plus, if you have around four (which is the max I can fit with an ISD-2 + 2 VSD), you can always surprise Squadron with the ISD-2

The only problem with Tractor Beams is that they are so expensive to get your hands on. I'd love to have a full set for an ISD and 2 VSDs, but that's $150 msrp.

beg/borrow/steal/proxy, I always say

I've mostly played Rebels so far here, and I've used Ackbar a few times (depending on the objectives I pick, it may be Mon Mothma when I bring the Foresight MC30c w/Walex which can be super annoying for the Imperials).

Anyways, I tend to not like a big Rymer-ball of TIEs coming at me, as several have noted. They came in and tore apart my front shields and dropped a hit or two, and one crit. A few TIE/Bombers and a Firespray

An ISD at speed 3, with a nav command and nav token, can suddenly bring the boom down quite unexpectedly if you forget that they can do that... (which I did - derp) if the Ackbar flagship had already activated. If the Empire has initiative for the next turn, and the ISD ends up with the big guns pointed in the right direction, it can be quite ugly. Through bad timing on my part, and a very well timed move by my opponent, I accidentally ended up at R1 against the ISD-I. Lots of booms followed.

To get back to Ackbar. I really dislike the card as it embodies the type of admiral cards that I generally dislike: the ones that magically enhance ships without making sense. Motti falls in the same category, somehow he reinforces the structural integrity of all ships with him in command overnight, but then equips his illegal modifications with a self destruct system tied to his heartbeat? So when Ackbar is leading a fleet all the ships suddenly have 200 extra turbolaser batteries....Yup that sounds reasonable...

Admirals should imho be about buffing fleets through their superior command abilities: if Ackbar would give every Rebel ship a free concentrate fire command when firing on a single ship of the Rebel player's choosing that would make a lot more sense: his tactical brilliance directing the fleet to take down a high priority target. Anyhow...

Then his actual effect: as it stand it is imho grossly overpowered, especially when using a substantial number of small ships like corvettes, who benefit exponentially from the set amount of extra dice. While an MC80 'only' gains 66% extra firepower at long range and 33% at medium and short range, which is still a huge boost, the CR90A gains 200% extra firepower at long range and 100% at medium and long range. To put that in perspective, instead of 1 corvette taking podshots at you from long range, with Ackbar suddenly that single corvette counts as 3 corvettes shooting at your mint condition scratch free ISD.

But...but...it can't shoot from his front anymore! So in effect it does just as much damage as it would when double arcing. -Yes, but in not having to position itself so that both arcs have something to shoot at, it gains a significant amount of tactical flexibility and becomes much easier to effectively use during the match as it doesn't need to close in with the big bad imperial ships to maximize its firepower. In fact it can even fly away from them and still be 100% effective.

The Assault Frigate Mk-II B is another big winner. Put gunnery team on it, and it will do 100% extra damage at long range compared to an AF without gunnery teams double arcing, and 66% more damage compared to an AF with gunnery team but without Ackbar. Essentially as much of a boost as the MC-80, while being about 30 points cheaper.

it's simple

Motti forces people to keep working long after it would've made sense to bail on the failing ship

As for Akbar, he once said "concentrate all firepower on that super star destroyer!" which is apparently all you need to do to get those 2 red dice

it's simple

Motti forces people to keep working long after it would've made sense to bail on the failing ship

As for Akbar, he once said "concentrate all firepower on that super star destroyer!" which is apparently all you need to do to get those 2 red dice

"Concentrate all firepower on all of the enemy ships... but only from the side!" -Admiral Snackbar

To get back to Ackbar. I really dislike the card as it embodies the type of admiral cards that I generally dislike: the ones that magically enhance ships without making sense. Motti falls in the same category, somehow he reinforces the structural integrity of all ships with him in command overnight, but then equips his illegal modifications with a self destruct system tied to his heartbeat? So when Ackbar is leading a fleet all the ships suddenly have 200 extra turbolaser batteries....Yup that sounds reasonable...

So let me get this straight, the morale and leadership provided by Motti does not make sense in the cre of ships fighting on longer than it would be consider prudent?

Ackbar having all weapons brought to combat the enemy and inspiring the crews of the turbolaser batteries to work harder and get off more shots.

Huh. . . guess those don't make sense. . .

Must be like Screed making sure that something always hits a critical area or Dodonna knowing the weaknesses of the things he faces. . . nope no sense there.

Not really no. How exactly does improved crew morale allow them to fight on when their ship has been utterly destroyed? Or are ships usually abandoned way before any chance at fatal damage can occur? Anyhow just my opinion, not forcing anyone to feel the same way.

Not really no. How exactly does improved crew morale allow them to fight on when their ship has been utterly destroyed? Or are ships usually abandoned way before any chance at fatal damage can occur? Anyhow just my opinion, not forcing anyone to feel the same way.

Having been in the Navy I have found that I am willing to work harder and longer for someone I respect more than someone I dont like.

Morale is important to a crew of a ship. They use it to keep going when the going gets tough.

Remember that a ship being "destroyed" in the game is just a representation of a ship leaving the game somehow. From jumping out to actually being blown up.

Have you all played a warship game? In world of warships the giant batteries turn extremely slowly. Thus front side guns can fire front and side but take time to move. However if you're constantly broadsiding the front guns remain trained to the side and fire at perhaps 200-300% faster rate as its only reloading the barrel instead of turning the heavy guns.

Ackbar sunply tells his crew: this turn all guns face side. Front and back guns.

Makes perfect sense actually. IMO ackbar is incredibly thematic to a giant warship if you know how they work.

I, also, disagree with your thematic interpretations.

Yes, a ship destroyed is not "blown up." Do you realize the amount of energy it would take to actually "destroy" a Star Destroyer? Wasteful amounts in an actual battle for sure.

Ackbar doesn't put more guns on the ship. He commands them better. I especially like Blail Blerg's points, as it's something I've though of a lot of how the "arcs" work: the guns aren't "on the front" or "on the side" they're all over. And when you fire with the front arc you're using guns that CAN fire to the side as well...even imagine your ship having 8 arcs, and the corner ones have options to which arc they are dedicated. So focusing more of your guns from the "front/side" and "front/back" arcs so they are on the side would literally give you more guns to shoot with...of course that's excluding him giving good/inspirational orders on where to fire for more damage.

That said, Ackbar is beatable...for sure. He's, finally, a scary admiral for rebels. Imps have had screed for a while; their scariest admiral I feel (not strongest, just noticeable direct hurt). So while Mon Mothma is pretty **** strong, she's not as immediately threatening as Ackbar is with his raw 2 dice.

I would def like to play against this corvette swarm list people keep throwing around; as I feel it has some obvious weaknesses that can be exploited with any well-rounded list.

I, also, disagree with your thematic interpretations.

Yes, a ship destroyed is not "blown up." Do you realize the amount of energy it would take to actually "destroy" a Star Destroyer? Wasteful amounts in an actual battle for sure.

We are talking about the Galactic Empire, which built a laser capable of blowing up (not just "render uninhabitable", but full 110% FOOM) and then decided that wasn't enough!

Though the rest of your post rings true. Admirals don't just appear at the start of battle - they're in charge of the entire fleet up & down. Ackbar might get his engineers to re-jigger the turbolasers for more powerful broadsides. Mothma would be more compassionate, ensuring that her captains understood keeping their soldiers alive was priority #1.

I, also, disagree with your thematic interpretations.

Yes, a ship destroyed is not "blown up." Do you realize the amount of energy it would take to actually "destroy" a Star Destroyer? Wasteful amounts in an actual battle for sure.

We are talking about the Galactic Empire, which built a laser capable of blowing up (not just "render uninhabitable", but full 110% FOOM) and then decided that wasn't enough!

Though the rest of your post rings true. Admirals don't just appear at the start of battle - they're in charge of the entire fleet up & down. Ackbar might get his engineers to re-jigger the turbolasers for more powerful broadsides. Mothma would be more compassionate, ensuring that her captains understood keeping their soldiers alive was priority #1.

or they learned to be more cautious

cause they know what happened to the bothans..

I, also, disagree with your thematic interpretations.

Yes, a ship destroyed is not "blown up." Do you realize the amount of energy it would take to actually "destroy" a Star Destroyer? Wasteful amounts in an actual battle for sure.

Ackbar doesn't put more guns on the ship. He commands them better. I especially like Blail Blerg's points, as it's something I've though of a lot of how the "arcs" work: the guns aren't "on the front" or "on the side" they're all over. And when you fire with the front arc you're using guns that CAN fire to the side as well...even imagine your ship having 8 arcs, and the corner ones have options to which arc they are dedicated. So focusing more of your guns from the "front/side" and "front/back" arcs so they are on the side would literally give you more guns to shoot with...of course that's excluding him giving good/inspirational orders on where to fire for more damage.

That said, Ackbar is beatable...for sure. He's, finally, a scary admiral for rebels. Imps have had screed for a while; their scariest admiral I feel (not strongest, just noticeable direct hurt). So while Mon Mothma is pretty **** strong, she's not as immediately threatening as Ackbar is with his raw 2 dice.

I would def like to play against this corvette swarm list people keep throwing around; as I feel it has some obvious weaknesses that can be exploited with any well-rounded list.

I've faced 3 or 4 iterations of it, winning every game against it with varying levels of success, and different builds. It definitely has weaknesses--significant, glaring ones.

The one I played yesterday (being the one I most specifically remember) was a heavily-upgraded Home One with three naked CR90A's and 6-8 rebel fighters centered on Wedge and Dutch. In this case I was paying my list from the Vassal Tournament, so while Ackbar is my admiral, it's got more similarities with an Imperial flanker list than the common Ackbar list. Lightly upgraded MC80 Home One, and two torpedo shrimp with OE/TRC/ACM. I just charge into that front arc at speed 4 and pull the trigger till it goes click. Got lots of free pot shots on corvettes in passing, which helped.