You can say I'm doing it wrong if you want, but the list that frigate is part of is as of yet undefeated. I just think I'm doing it different.

I am still wondering why the ackbar effect is not subject to the ships size or its original armament - the only other guy who is altering the ships stats directly (Mr. Motti) is linked to the size and one would argue that it makes sense. The flat +2 on ackbar is not an all too well approach balance-wise and fluff-wise in my opinion..

Indeed, Ackbar would be much more inline with other Admirals if he were to give small and medium ships only one extra red die.

No, because this encourages CR-90 and assault frigate spam, which can be actually worse than MC80s because it will be easier to swarm with and get more dice, more attacks on beleaguered Imperial ships.

I had the chance to play against Ackbar the other day for the first time, and we decided to play a big 600 point game. With my opponents 7 ships that was a lot of extra red dice! I lost my ISD2 with Tarkin on the second turn from 2 AF and 2 CR90's (I especially underestimated these things) going from full health to dead in 1 turn was definitely shocking to say the least. It was definitely a trap, but not for the rebels! Has anyone else experienced the red dice madness that is Ackbar? What is the best way to combat this as the Empire?

If you play Ackbar or any other admiral the point ppcost should be inflated 50% because you are adding 200 points to 400.

That way Ackbar cost 38 + 19= 57 points

Now given that to Ozzel at 30 you might find the difference is worth it.

You can say I'm doing it wrong if you want, but the list that frigate is part of is as of yet undefeated. I just think I'm doing it different.

What? You can't do things different from me! That's outrageous!

If it works for you, who am I to say boo?

I am still wondering why the ackbar effect is not subject to the ships size or its original armament - the only other guy who is altering the ships stats directly (Mr. Motti) is linked to the size and one would argue that it makes sense. The flat +2 on ackbar is not an all too well approach balance-wise and fluff-wise in my opinion..

Indeed, Ackbar would be much more inline with other Admirals if he were to give small and medium ships only one extra red die.

No, because this encourages CR-90 and assault frigate spam, which can be actually worse than MC80s because it will be easier to swarm with and get more dice, more attacks on beleaguered Imperial ships.

Are you saying that giving small ships two dice somehow DOESN'T encourage CR-90 spam?

Reducing the added dice to one will reduce the spammability of Ackbar.

I've faced the roaming CR-90 swarm with the side arcs comparable to assault frigates. It's beyond brutal.

I am still wondering why the ackbar effect is not subject to the ships size or its original armament - the only other guy who is altering the ships stats directly (Mr. Motti) is linked to the size and one would argue that it makes sense. The flat +2 on ackbar is not an all too well approach balance-wise and fluff-wise in my opinion..

Indeed, Ackbar would be much more inline with other Admirals if he were to give small and medium ships only one extra red die.

No, because this encourages CR-90 and assault frigate spam, which can be actually worse than MC80s because it will be easier to swarm with and get more dice, more attacks on beleaguered Imperial ships.

Are you saying that giving small ships two dice somehow DOESN'T encourage CR-90 spam?

Reducing the added dice to one will reduce the spammability of Ackbar.

I've faced the roaming CR-90 swarm with the side arcs comparable to assault frigates. It's beyond brutal.

And nonsensical, throwing the value of assault frigates somewhat into question.

i really just think it's a poorly designed card. Somewhat thematic perhaps, but poorly thought out.

It needs adjustment, and I don't say that just because I'm an Imp, but because it seems to represent an increasingly obvious imbalancing paradigm in the new status quo. And I don't mean that in terms of the Rebel/Imp balance, at least not just in that, but in the dynamic of how the rebel's fleet options work.

I am a Rebel player and I hate how unbalanced Ackbar is. The problem is alone he is brutal but with TRCs he is beyond stupid. Concentrate fire + Ackbar + TRCs out the side arc of a CR-90 is typically between 4-6 damage and then multiply that by 7 (the max CR-90s with Ackbar/TRCs at 400 points) and you will melt ISDs in no time.

I dont want to feel like I have to field Ackbar just to defeat Ackbar in competitive games and that is where it stands now. I really like the idea of Large ships adding 2 red dice, medium ships adding 1 red dice, and small ships getting a reroll of red dice.

=(((((((((

But but but/ I like my CRs hitting like trucks attached to chainsaws unto jello.

I am still wondering why the ackbar effect is not subject to the ships size or its original armament - the only other guy who is altering the ships stats directly (Mr. Motti) is linked to the size and one would argue that it makes sense. The flat +2 on ackbar is not an all too well approach balance-wise and fluff-wise in my opinion..

Indeed, Ackbar would be much more inline with other Admirals if he were to give small and medium ships only one extra red die.

No, because this encourages CR-90 and assault frigate spam, which can be actually worse than MC80s because it will be easier to swarm with and get more dice, more attacks on beleaguered Imperial ships.

Are you saying that giving small ships two dice somehow DOESN'T encourage CR-90 spam?

Reducing the added dice to one will reduce the spammability of Ackbar.

I've faced the roaming CR-90 swarm with the side arcs comparable to assault frigates. It's beyond brutal.

Well, the only ship that would lose out from that ackbar's bonus is the ship he rode out on, since everything else in the rebel fleet is mediums and lights.... so the only list that would change is spamming MC80s, but I never see anyone taking more than two, and those two are experimental.

It will be interesting to see how Ackbar pans out as the meta develops. He's the only directly offensive admiral in the Rebel forces actually... Dodonna needs crits to trigger but doesn't add dice. The Empire had Screed all this time so now it's payback time?

I am still wondering why the ackbar effect is not subject to the ships size or its original armament - the only other guy who is altering the ships stats directly (Mr. Motti) is linked to the size and one would argue that it makes sense. The flat +2 on ackbar is not an all too well approach balance-wise and fluff-wise in my opinion..

Indeed, Ackbar would be much more inline with other Admirals if he were to give small and medium ships only one extra red die.

No, because this encourages CR-90 and assault frigate spam, which can be actually worse than MC80s because it will be easier to swarm with and get more dice, more attacks on beleaguered Imperial ships.

Are you saying that giving small ships two dice somehow DOESN'T encourage CR-90 spam?

Reducing the added dice to one will reduce the spammability of Ackbar.

I've faced the roaming CR-90 swarm with the side arcs comparable to assault frigates. It's beyond brutal.

Well, the only ship that would lose out from that ackbar's bonus is the ship he rode out on, since everything else in the rebel fleet is mediums and lights.... so the only list that would change is spamming MC80s, but I never see anyone taking more than two, and those two are experimental.

It will be interesting to see how Ackbar pans out as the meta develops. He's the only directly offensive admiral in the Rebel forces actually... Dodonna needs crits to trigger but doesn't add dice. The Empire had Screed all this time so now it's payback time?

Screed, and even Vader function to just shift the damage probabilities in your favor. Screed just fixes one die for you, and only ONCE per ship.

Ackbar straight up adds four potential damage to every attack.

Only from the left and right really isn't much of a hindrance to Rebel ships.

It's like giving Imps an admiral that adds two black dice and saying "oh, but it's balanced because it's only out of the front arc".

I'm going to call it now. Barring any serious errata, Akbar will win Worlds 2016, probably against another Akbar.

I'm going to call it now. Barring any serious errata, Akbar will win Worlds 2016, probably against another Akbar.

Ballsy call, because given worlds was pretty recent, they would have to go almost a full year between releases for us to not have a legal wave three by worlds 2016. And we don't even know whats in there. I like it.

I am still wondering why the ackbar effect is not subject to the ships size or its original armament - the only other guy who is altering the ships stats directly (Mr. Motti) is linked to the size and one would argue that it makes sense. The flat +2 on ackbar is not an all too well approach balance-wise and fluff-wise in my opinion..

Indeed, Ackbar would be much more inline with other Admirals if he were to give small and medium ships only one extra red die.

No, because this encourages CR-90 and assault frigate spam, which can be actually worse than MC80s because it will be easier to swarm with and get more dice, more attacks on beleaguered Imperial ships.

Are you saying that giving small ships two dice somehow DOESN'T encourage CR-90 spam?

Reducing the added dice to one will reduce the spammability of Ackbar.

I've faced the roaming CR-90 swarm with the side arcs comparable to assault frigates. It's beyond brutal.

Well, the only ship that would lose out from that ackbar's bonus is the ship he rode out on, since everything else in the rebel fleet is mediums and lights.... so the only list that would change is spamming MC80s, but I never see anyone taking more than two, and those two are experimental.

It will be interesting to see how Ackbar pans out as the meta develops. He's the only directly offensive admiral in the Rebel forces actually... Dodonna needs crits to trigger but doesn't add dice. The Empire had Screed all this time so now it's payback time?

Akbar adds two red dice @ .75 damage each, Screed can add 1 damage at non-black, 2 at black. I'd say they're pretty comparable, especially with Screed being able to guarantee critical damage on ACM/APTs. Ackbar's better at range, Screed wins in a close-quarters brawl.

I'm going to call it now. Barring any serious errata, Akbar will win Worlds 2016, probably against another Akbar.

Yup, just like GenCon won Worlds this year. Or not. If the meta coalesces around Akbar, we'll see anti-meta be GSD-heavy list (oddly enough) with Screed (mebby Ozzel?) & Firespray/Rhymer.

I'm going to call it now. Barring any serious errata, Akbar will win Worlds 2016, probably against another Akbar.

Yup, just like GenCon won Worlds this year. Or not. If the meta coalesces around Akbar, we'll see anti-meta be GSD-heavy list (oddly enough) with Screed (mebby Ozzel?) & Firespray/Rhymer.

Or any other bomber-heavy build. Or any of a number of other fast-attack builds.

The Ackbar Cr90 Side arc is Identical to the Cr90 Double-Arc including a Front.

It takes a bit of the impetus of maneouver off the Ackbar player - but honestly, its no different than a standard swarm for me, so long as I'm not playing to the strengths - letting them split my force to get shots out of BOTH sides...

If they only have the one side shot, its essentially identical.

Which, after facing them for 2 games, and losing both narrowly, is still my opinion... Its my strategy that just needs to be sharpened a little with some more Fighter-Bombers...

Who would've thought that giving the Rebels competitive offensive admirals would prompt so much outcry? I guess facing free-damage admirals is a new experience for the Empire...

Who would've thought that giving the Rebels competitive offensive admirals would prompt so much outcry? I guess facing free-damage admirals is a new experience for the Empire...

That's how I read it.

Meta is changing, old strategies not working, must be OP.

The Ackbar Cr90 Side arc is Identical to the Cr90 Double-Arc including a Front.

It takes a bit of the impetus of maneouver off the Ackbar player - but honestly, its no different than a standard swarm for me, so long as I'm not playing to the strengths - letting them split my force to get shots out of BOTH sides...

If they only have the one side shot, its essentially identical.

Which, after facing them for 2 games, and losing both narrowly, is still my opinion... Its my strategy that just needs to be sharpened a little with some more Fighter-Bombers...

It's not really that simple though. Double arcing things requires a lot to happen at the right time. You either need to be going first, have multiple instances of it or a willing opponent. Sure it happens but Ackbar gives you that same punch with a single variable. Are they in your side arc?

Also broadsides allow you to control your fleet better. Rarely do I see something double arc then not get punished for it

Also broadsides allow you to control your fleet better. Rarely do I see something double arc then not get punished for it

With the CR90 being as Maneouverable as it is, its quite easy to stay mostly broadside, and tick in the last click of Yaw to get the double arc anyway, with the front...

My feeling is you can play the Ackbar Broadside list without Ackbar, without losing much firepower, and Gaining another Admiral's effect, simply by honing your own flying ability.

I am agreeing, it does make it a little bit easier, by reducing to the single variable - but that single variable is at the cost of what another Admiral may be giving you...

So, in my personal opinion, I'm finding the Ackbar Cr90 Swarm on par damage wise as the Mon Mothma Cr90 Swarm, and much easier to kill in comparison...

Its not Ackbar that's making the Difference to me.

Its those Turbolaser Reroute Circuits.

FFG has been pretty darn good lately with balance. Considering the first thing pretty much everyone did the moment he came out was run through which ships benefit, I'm guessing the designers did the same. Which means they know something that the group hasn't figured out. Furthermore the math on the ships has Akbar being a wash on most ships except the Mk2, and even there it requires gunnery team and two side arc targets.

What Akbar does is make things easier. You don't need to double arc to make your CR-90 efficient. It's like Demolisher who doesn't really add more than one attack (maybe 2) per game. It just makes the game easier for most of us.

Finally, look at squadrons. Nothing changed in the ship availability for a long time, but over time people eventually figured out how to play squadrons. And surprise! They actually were good. Sort of like the designers played the heck out of th game to make sure it was good instead of just a few token play throughs. And it took time for players to improve their skills.

Akbar is not unstoppable. Get into the front arcs. Use bombers and fast ships. Use tractor beams on slow ships. Learn how to fly better and anticipate better.

Maybe, but you don't need TRC with Ackbar. Also I find Admirals (on the rebel side) to be largely filler. I have won plenty of games with Dodonna triggering his ability only once or twice. I have had Mothma rerolls land right back on double damage all game, Iblis is cute but with proper planning largely irrelevant, Now, playing one of them could give you a better initiative bid but big secret, you are just as capable of winning in either spot. If you feel like you have to either go first or have the objective you either need to reevaluate your fleet comp or get better at first/second.

I am still wondering why the ackbar effect is not subject to the ships size or its original armament - the only other guy who is altering the ships stats directly (Mr. Motti) is linked to the size and one would argue that it makes sense. The flat +2 on ackbar is not an all too well approach balance-wise and fluff-wise in my opinion..

Indeed, Ackbar would be much more inline with other Admirals if he were to give small and medium ships only one extra red die.

No, because this encourages CR-90 and assault frigate spam, which can be actually worse than MC80s because it will be easier to swarm with and get more dice, more attacks on beleaguered Imperial ships.

Are you saying that giving small ships two dice somehow DOESN'T encourage CR-90 spam?

Reducing the added dice to one will reduce the spammability of Ackbar.

I've faced the roaming CR-90 swarm with the side arcs comparable to assault frigates. It's beyond brutal.

Well, the only ship that would lose out from that ackbar's bonus is the ship he rode out on, since everything else in the rebel fleet is mediums and lights.... so the only list that would change is spamming MC80s, but I never see anyone taking more than two, and those two are experimental.

It will be interesting to see how Ackbar pans out as the meta develops. He's the only directly offensive admiral in the Rebel forces actually... Dodonna needs crits to trigger but doesn't add dice. The Empire had Screed all this time so now it's payback time?

Akbar adds two red dice @ .75 damage each, Screed can add 1 damage at non-black, 2 at black. I'd say they're pretty comparable, especially with Screed being able to guarantee critical damage on ACM/APTs. Ackbar's better at range, Screed wins in a close-quarters brawl.

I'm going to call it now. Barring any serious errata, Akbar will win Worlds 2016, probably against another Akbar.

Yup, just like GenCon won Worlds this year. Or not. If the meta coalesces around Akbar, we'll see anti-meta be GSD-heavy list (oddly enough) with Screed (mebby Ozzel?) & Firespray/Rhymer.

You need to spend a die to get that crit from Screed though. And add in gunnery teams and suddenly its 3 more damage from Ackbar vs the 1 (possibly 2 but only if you roll 2 or more black blanks) you (may) get from Screed. Not to mention its significantly easier for rebels to stay at red dice range for most of the match with most of their ships than it is for imperials to get into black dice range with most of their ships.

I am still wondering why the ackbar effect is not subject to the ships size or its original armament - the only other guy who is altering the ships stats directly (Mr. Motti) is linked to the size and one would argue that it makes sense. The flat +2 on ackbar is not an all too well approach balance-wise and fluff-wise in my opinion..

Indeed, Ackbar would be much more inline with other Admirals if he were to give small and medium ships only one extra red die.

No, because this encourages CR-90 and assault frigate spam, which can be actually worse than MC80s because it will be easier to swarm with and get more dice, more attacks on beleaguered Imperial ships.

Are you saying that giving small ships two dice somehow DOESN'T encourage CR-90 spam?

Reducing the added dice to one will reduce the spammability of Ackbar.

I've faced the roaming CR-90 swarm with the side arcs comparable to assault frigates. It's beyond brutal.

Well, the only ship that would lose out from that ackbar's bonus is the ship he rode out on, since everything else in the rebel fleet is mediums and lights.... so the only list that would change is spamming MC80s, but I never see anyone taking more than two, and those two are experimental.

It will be interesting to see how Ackbar pans out as the meta develops. He's the only directly offensive admiral in the Rebel forces actually... Dodonna needs crits to trigger but doesn't add dice. The Empire had Screed all this time so now it's payback time?

Akbar adds two red dice @ .75 damage each, Screed can add 1 damage at non-black, 2 at black. I'd say they're pretty comparable, especially with Screed being able to guarantee critical damage on ACM/APTs. Ackbar's better at range, Screed wins in a close-quarters brawl.

I'm going to call it now. Barring any serious errata, Akbar will win Worlds 2016, probably against another Akbar.

Yup, just like GenCon won Worlds this year. Or not. If the meta coalesces around Akbar, we'll see anti-meta be GSD-heavy list (oddly enough) with Screed (mebby Ozzel?) & Firespray/Rhymer.

You need to spend a die to get that crit from Screed though. And add in gunnery teams and suddenly its 3 more damage from Ackbar vs the 1 (possibly 2 but only if you roll 2 or more black blanks) you (may) get from Screed. Not to mention its significantly easier for rebels to stay at red dice range for most of the match with most of their ships than it is for imperials to get into black dice range with most of their ships.

I don't know who you are playing but those damned Imperials ALWAYS get into black dice range. . . and then my B-Wings punish them.

I feel that many people are crying over this but are not thinking of solutions. Only Time will tell.

Who would've thought that giving the Rebels competitive offensive admirals would prompt so much outcry? I guess facing free-damage admirals is a new experience for the Empire...

Who would've thought that giving the Rebels competitive offensive admirals would prompt so much outcry? I guess facing free-damage admirals is a new experience for the Empire...

That's how I read it.

Meta is changing, old strategies not working, must be OP.

I'd say that's an over-simplification of concerns. Mine certainly go beyond "ooooh he's scary". But, being rational, I'm just watching and waiting to see how things shake out. Like with any good statistical analysis, we more samples before we can legitimately cry OP. Granted, my gut instinct says something's hinky, but I'm not irresponsible enough to just immediately cry foul and throw a tantrum.

Now we get a bunch of tournaments with a healthy number of participants and games played finished, and end up finding that Ackbar fleets win 75% (arbitrary number) of their matches, well, maybe he's a problem.

I just think it bears scrutiny.