Whisper was pretty deliberately designed to usher in a new play style for Imperial players. Previously, Imperials basically had the TIE Swarm as their most viable archetype. And the only question you had to ask before Wave 4 was "how well will this list do against a TIE Swarm?" As a result of this, PS was not usually worth the points spent- non TIE Swarms would almost always be moving and shooting before TIE Swarms.

Because PS wasn't really worth paying for, upgrades weren't very much worth paying for. The common wisdom was that ships were basically disposable, so you should run them lean.

After the Phantom dropped, you needed to ask "how well will this list do against TIE Swarms and Phantoms?"

When the CR-90 dropped, the question became "How will this list fare against Swarms, Phantoms, and Fat Han?"

Btw: this isn't me talking, at least not exclusively. This is me paraphrasing Paul Heaver.

Some small rules issues gave undue preference to PS9 Phantoms and point Fotress Turrets. Those rules issues seem to have been smoothed out, while maintaining the integrity of what makes those ships fun and interesting to fly.

As a result of all _that_, Swarms, Turrets and Phantoms are all still viable. But so are a great many archetypes. In the current era (call it the World's 2015 era, so post-Nu!Core, pre-Gozanti) you need a list that's good against: high PS arc dodgers, hammer and anvil 2 ship lists, BroBots!, and still: Swarms.

Pheaver actually commented in his post-World's interview that he couldn't build a list that would be better than anything he would come up against. There simply wasn't a most-dominant arcetype.

This seems good and healthy. I am a tiny bit concerned that the only dominant arcetype Scum have is the BroBots, but they have lots of raw material that FFG can refine into a second and third archetype.

1.) Great players can play easymode ice cream smeared lists. Doesn't mean they're sticky ice cream smeared 10 year olds at a baseball game, but their lists required no skill.

2.) How do you know it does nothing? You're just buttmad about me complaining about things instead of waving my optimism boner around and using euphemisms.

3.) I've actually been meaning to do that. Assign falcon maneuvers to die rolls, and reroll when it would fly you off the edge or onto an asteroid (or use Dash Crewdar) or double red. I just haven't felt like non-playing the game to prove a point yet. I'll do it this Sunday though.

1) Great players will beat you with whatever they want. What does a great player choosing a high risk high reward list have to do with easy mode? And you're being quite offensive about it.

2) and then you decided to really be offensive about it.

3) and yet again you had to just add one more coarse and body part language into a discussion about a miniatures strategy game... Really?

Let us know how your game goes but please clean up your attempts at "discussion".

Get used to it, Goomba lives in a world where his opinion is fact.

Thoughts?

either you are a PS9 or you are not.

it's that simple.

Pony Damerony gets 10 because VI make him on-arcdodgeable by Vader-Fel and he gets to shoot before whisper, and can run down han and chiraneau.

BOOSTWING!

If boost-wing is such a problem, you should play block-wing. I've only really started getting enough ships to play that game this year and I find I really like it. It's rewarding to get those perfect blocks that ruin an ace's day.

Personally, I prefer to fly more generics vs less named pilots - safety in numbers. My last tournament build was all PS2's

To steal a quote from ParaGoomba, High PS arc dodgers are almost as ice-cream-smeary as Fat PWTs.

One of my favorite lists to run has two PS 2 ships, two PS 1 or 3 ships, and a PS 8 ship. Love that the PS 8 is a priority for most, so my generics can clean up.

If boost-wing is such a problem, you should play block-wing. I've only really started getting enough ships to play that game this year and I find I really like it. It's rewarding to get those perfect blocks that ruin an ace's day.

See: Worlds.

Yes. Relying entirely on a PS advantage is little better than fat turreting.

Being able to move after your opponent, then adjust that move with ether boost or barrel roll (or both) is INCREDIBLY powerful. There's little skill involved in piloting high PS, multi-action ships - you're simply reacting to what your opponent has done.

The skill is found in not having to adjust, so your action is available for something more constructive.

The skill is found in not slapping VI, EU, Autothrusters or PtL on everything just because it's so good.

But then again, next week something else will be the "no skill needed list" du jour.

Swarms, no skill needed!

PWT, no skill needed!

High PS arcdodgers, no skill needed!

TLT's, no skill needed!

Yes. Relying entirely on a PS advantage is little better than fat turreting.

Being able to move after your opponent, then adjust that move with ether boost or barrel roll (or both) is INCREDIBLY powerful. There's little skill involved in piloting high PS, multi-action ships - you're simply reacting to what your opponent has done.

The skill is found in not having to adjust, so your action is available for something more constructive.

The skill is found in not slapping VI, EU, Autothrusters or PtL on everything just because it's so good.

But then again, next week something else will be the "no skill needed list" du jour.

Swarms, no skill needed!

PWT, no skill needed!

High PS arcdodgers, no skill needed!

TLT's, no skill needed!

It is much simpler to put: Whatever is at the top is no skill.

I just haven't felt like non-playing the game

I wish you would. All you do is gripe, ***** and whine about how the game sucks and everybody is flying on easy mode.

Why not sell your collection and buy something you actually enjoy?

Yes. Relying entirely on a PS advantage is little better than fat turreting.

Being able to move after your opponent, then adjust that move with ether boost or barrel roll (or both) is INCREDIBLY powerful. There's little skill involved in piloting high PS, multi-action ships - you're simply reacting to what your opponent has done.

The skill is found in not having to adjust, so your action is available for something more constructive.

The skill is found in not slapping VI, EU, Autothrusters or PtL on everything just because it's so good.

But then again, next week something else will be the "no skill needed list" du jour.

Swarms, no skill needed!

PWT, no skill needed!

High PS arcdodgers, no skill needed!

TLT's, no skill needed!

It is much simpler to put: Whatever is at the top is no skill.

Nope, it's even simpler than that.

Good player can run jousters nicely.

Bad player can't

Bad player can fat-turret, PS9 Barrel-Boost

Good player can do it even better.

AND have better results than a good player with joust list.

so no good player with competitive play in mind will run joust lists. PS8 is nigh-mandatory

they have counter-matchups. But are not counter-matchup to neither arcdodgers nor boost-turrets.

1.) Great players can play easymode ice cream smeared lists. Doesn't mean they're sticky ice cream smeared 10 year olds at a baseball game, but their lists required no skill.

2.) How do you know it does nothing? You're just buttmad about me complaining about things instead of waving my optimism boner around and using euphemisms.

3.) I've actually been meaning to do that. Assign falcon maneuvers to die rolls, and reroll when it would fly you off the edge or onto an asteroid (or use Dash Crewdar) or double red. I just haven't felt like non-playing the game to prove a point yet. I'll do it this Sunday though.

In other words, "everyone who beats me is ruining the game, and I'm gonna complain until it's fixed."

Even in the Phantom age Engine Upgrade was a point trap. It is only worth it on large bases and very specific ships (some Corrans for example).

Vader? ~

Yes, Vader, too. But for example X-Wing aces really shouldn't have it. Iused to run Luke with R3-A2 and VI to hunt Phantoms, but it never worked too well. Then I dropped the EU and my lists became a lot better.

I usually run Luke with R2-D2, shield upgrade, and Lone wolf, figure OP defense is better than trying to make the Xwing an arc-dodger.

Angry threads like this where people foam at the mouth getting angry about the metagame make me glad I actually only play this game over a couple of beers and after a takeaway with my friends.

(After a takeaway provided everyone has washed their greasy hands, obviously)

I kinda wish there weren't tournaments so half the forum wouldn't be married to the meta, only to divorce it the next year to marry the sexy younger meta.

Also, complaining about complaining? Is this your safe-space?

so... we are only allowed to play lists of 3-4 ships with moderate pilot skill and no turrets? sounds like a great format with lots of variety!

IME a 'competitive' meta is largely just copy paste while distilling choices down to whats worked for someone else. I DON'T play x wing competitively but I have played multiple other game systems this way and its generally the same principal.

as a dedicated Bossk player I can say to hell with competitive if it's FUN!

How is the discussion about fat turrets still a thing? Seriously, I thought we'd beaten that ultra-concentrated ghost-zombie-vampire-skeleton-horse to death (again) at least fifty times . . . .

As to the PS bid, it really depends on the rest of your list. The goal in this meta is to have a squad without hard counters, which means you need something to deal with PS 9+; however, there are plenty of options aside from PS 10+ aces for that niche (like the stresshog, for example).

Blocking. I hear blocking is good.

To steal a quote from ParaGoomba

Why would you ever do that?

I haven't found any one thing unbeatable atm.

I win games with PWT. I win games with boosting barrel rolling gits. I lose games with them.

I win games with generics against those archetypes too.

I get that not everyone has to like all list types but I really do feel we are past the 'dark times' where you flew "archetype A" or effectively tied a hand behind your back. I'm not sure it was quite that bad then but competitive lists were certainly more constrained than they are now.

Don't like high agility boosty barrel rolling gits? load up some crack shot carriers o make the shots you do get count. Learn where things want to go and block the hell out of them. Blah blah and so on.

I don't think complaining about archetypes is a reflection of skill but I just don't see the issue anymore myself.

I haven't found any one thing unbeatable atm.

I win games with PWT. I win games with boosting barrel rolling gits. I lose games with them.

I win games with generics against those archetypes too.

OH ****, PAUL HEAVER IS HERE?

or maybe just another forum warrior?

So I didn't play this Sunday, I asked my girlfriend if she wanted to play X-Wing at the FLGS and she said, "If you want to". I then suggested cuddling instead and she said that that is more appealing to her.

On Thursday though, maybe Wednesday. What? Pilot Han, whatever EPT, C-3PO, Gunner, Millenium Falcon title, and Engine Upgrade? With Miranda with TLT and Dash Crewdar?

I'll need to find a D16 though. I suppose I could roll a D8 and treat an attack die as a coin flip and get 16 different maneuvers evenly that way.

as a dedicated Bossk player I can say to hell with competitive if it's FUN!

Totally agree! Bossk is great. Mangler, Calculation, Outlaw Tech, K4 Security Droid, 45 Points. Boom!