I was wondering why there was so much resistance to the idea that the Phantom couldn't apply it's upgrades when it was joined to the Ghost.

Forum members kept citing that because it was docked and not out on the field it and all its upgrades don't exist (according to the docked ship rule that is). I was prepared to let the matter drop and wait for the big reveal, until I saw a post in another thread which literally brought everything into focus.

While I agree that the phantoms abilities will not be accessible to the ghost, has anyone considered that if, while the phantom is docked, it and it's assorted upgrades are essentially not in play, that means its title is also not in play, and therefore has no effect.

I went back to the •Ghost and •Phantom "title" cards and it was staring me right in the face all along. There is only ONE unique title, which is assigned to the Ghost, but it involves both ships. "VCX-100 only. Title."

The •Ghost card tells you to equip the •Phantom card to an attack shuttle and that you may deploy it after you execute a manuver.

The •Phantom card has no unique "Title", an upgrade point value of "-" (not "0") and all of the text on the card refers to only what the Ghost can do (not the Phantom) while the two craft are JOINED.

So basically because of the two craft are JOINED; the Ghost gains a "special arc" (instead of an "auxiliary arc").

*And any upgrades from the Phantom would be added to those of the Ghost's (which should give the Ghost a CHOICE of which "equipped" turret to fire, but not fire both).*

This part is not definitive until rules and card explanations of the ships are released to the public but it would make sense.

Think of the title cards as changing the two ships into a SW version of VOLTRON, the Ghost makes up the head and body and the Phantom becomes.... let's just say it adds to Ghost becoming a more powerful craft.

The Phantom title is the only title that explicitly has an effect while the ship is docked. No other upgrade card that can be used on the shuttle says that. Therefore, I would submit that the title is the only upgrade that works and that things like turrets, elite talents, etc. do not work while the shuttle is docked.

Just because you misunderstood a rule (which is understandable, the card could have been phrased better), doesn't mean the rule is gonna change just to conform to you.

X-Wing isn't a public school.

Yeah no.

The Phantom's upgrades aren't on the Ghost, they're on the Phantom, simple as that. No you do not get the Phantom's crew on the Ghost, he's in the Phantom waiting to be sent out.

more than meets the eye*

I'm really astounding by how many hoops such simple card interactions have people jumping through

Docked Ships

ome card abilities allow players to dock ships to a carrier ship.

Docked ships (and their equipped Upgrade cards) are placed to the side of the play area, and are considered to be inactive for all purposes (they are not assigned dials in the Planning phase, they cannot attack, be attacked, perform actions, be assigned tokens, be target locked, etc.).

Ships must be docked pregame, during squad building, and players must pay squad points for these ships as normal.

If the carrier ship flees the battlefield, it and all its docked ships are destroyed.

If the carrier ship is destroyed (but has not fled the battlefield), before it is removed from the play area, each docked ship receives 1 facedown Damage card and must immediately deploy. Ships deployed in this fashion cannot attack until the following round.

Deploy

Some cards permit players to deploy ships. To deploy a ship, follow these steps:

1. Choose a maneuver on the docked ship’s maneuver dial (this does not count as revealing a dial).

2. Take the maneuver template that matches the chosen maneuver and slide the template between the front or rear guides on the carrier ship.

3. Take the docked ship and place it at the opposite end of the template, sliding the rear guides of the docked ship into the opposite end of the template. This counts as a maneuver. If this maneuver causes the docked ship to overlap an obstacle or another ship, it follows the normal rules for overlapping. If this causes a situation in which the docked ship cannot be placed in the play area, the docked ship is destroyed.

4. If the docked ship has not overlapped an obstacle or another ship and is not stressed, it may perform one action.

both taken from x-wing miniatures wiki,

Phantom Title

overridden by other effects

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/40/b4/40b44d5f-7a06-406c-ae6e-183c5297e796/swx36_rulesreference.pdf

more than meets the eye*

I'm really astounding by how many hoops such simple card interactions have people jumping through

Docked Ships

ome card abilities allow players to dock ships to a carrier ship.

Docked ships (and their equipped Upgrade cards) are placed to the side of the play area, and are considered to be inactive for all purposes (they are not assigned dials in the Planning phase, they cannot attack, be attacked, perform actions, be assigned tokens, be target locked, etc.).

Ships must be docked pregame, during squad building, and players must pay squad points for these ships as normal.

That actually means the Phantom title is inactive and not in play when the attack shuttle is docked and therefore it enables nothing for the ghost

GOLDEN RULES

in giant capital letters

yeah they CAN OVERRIDE the rules as written!! but the phantom title does not picture it by any means!!! it is NOWHERE written on the card that this is in play while the phantom is docked!

yeah they CAN OVERRIDE the rules as written!! but the phantom title does not picture it by any means!!! it is NOWHERE written on the card that this is in play while the phantom is docked!

It's effects specifically say while it is docked.

I dunno if it is poor word choice or card design on FFG's part or if there are just way too many literal minded OCD/high functioning people on this forum. It's pretty clear at least to me that the Phantom title has an affect on he Ghost due to its very specific wording while no other upgrade on the Attack Shuttle says anything about working in any way while docked. The upgrades on the Phantom don't do anything anyway if the phantom cannot maneuver, attack, be attacked or perform actions. And there's been nothing in the rules about one ship using upgrades on another ship unless it is specified directly by a pilot ability of other card.

NOTHTING.

GUNBOAT.

I dunno if it is poor word choice or card design on FFG's part or if there are just way to many literal minded OCD/high functioning people on this forum.

Aren't those supposed to be really good with phrasing and algorithms? Think the word you're looking for here is potato. Just saying.

Just because you misunderstood a rule (which is understandable, the card could have been phrased better), doesn't mean the rule is gonna change just to conform to you.

X-Wing isn't a public school.

Don't know what public schools you've seen lately. Common Core and Smarter Balanced Scores or Bust. But even common core is subservient to test scores... Public schools are at the mercy of the test making corporations. Corporations aren't exactly known for their "Individual Flexibility".

Just because you misunderstood a rule (which is understandable, the card could have been phrased better), doesn't mean the rule is gonna change just to conform to you.

X-Wing isn't a public school.

Don't know what public schools you've seen lately. Common Core and Smarter Balanced Scores or Bust. But even common core is subservient to test scores... Public schools are at the mercy of the test making corporations. Corporations aren't exactly known for their "Individual Flexibility".

As someone who is married to a school psychologist I can say that common core and end of grade testing has very little if any valid psychometrics going into its creation. Basically some random teachers and school admin were asked 'what do you think 3rd graders ought to know?' And there you go. I guess that's what happens when politicians dictate education on a national level. What happened to local and state control?

Ok political rant over. We should get back to bashing the prequels for having so much politics in them!

Do you want howlrunner to be able to buff everything while sitting on the assault carrier?

The way I see it, upgrades always refer to the ship as "you." Any crew or secondary weapons on the Phantom will say "you." Since the ship is not in play, "you" cannot affect things. For example, a Gunner on the Phantom lets "you" make a primary weapon attack after an attack misses, but it won't let the Ghost make a primary weapon attack. It doesn't work because "you" (the attack shuttle) aren't the one making the attack. Same goes for cards like Zeb, and turrets and others.

However, "While you are docked," refers to state that actually exists. And then the card specifically affects another ship. It doesn't require the ship to be on the field because it specifically refers to "While you are [in a specific out of play state]."

Do you want howlrunner to be able to buff everything while sitting on the assault carrier?

YES! Can I dock a certain TIE Bomber too?

Can we start calling any Ghost/Phantom build the "Specter"? Just so we don't get it confused with the Imperial Phantom.

Can we start calling any Ghost/Phantom build the "Specter"? Just so we don't get it confused with the Imperial Phantom.

Maybe, but isn't "Specter" the call-signs for the crew?

My vote would be that we stop being lazy about saying TIE Phantom. That, or we adopt the approach from the new TIE Fighter and start calling the TIE/ph Phantom the ph in the same way the TIE/fo is just called the fo on occasion.

But, its the internet. We must shorten everything.

more than meets the eye*

I'm really astounding by how many hoops such simple card interactions have people jumping through

Docked Ships

ome card abilities allow players to dock ships to a carrier ship.

Docked ships (and their equipped Upgrade cards) are placed to the side of the play area, and are considered to be inactive for all purposes (they are not assigned dials in the Planning phase, they cannot attack, be attacked, perform actions, be assigned tokens, be target locked, etc.).

Ships must be docked pregame, during squad building, and players must pay squad points for these ships as normal.

If the carrier ship flees the battlefield, it and all its docked ships are destroyed.

If the carrier ship is destroyed (but has not fled the battlefield), before it is removed from the play area, each docked ship receives 1 facedown Damage card and must immediately deploy. Ships deployed in this fashion cannot attack until the following round.

...

So according to this rule the Natasha pup starts with a damage card? Well that makes the hounds tooth unplayable.

more than meets the eye*

I'm really astounding by how many hoops such simple card interactions have people jumping through

Docked Ships

ome card abilities allow players to dock ships to a carrier ship.

Docked ships (and their equipped Upgrade cards) are placed to the side of the play area, and are considered to be inactive for all purposes (they are not assigned dials in the Planning phase, they cannot attack, be attacked, perform actions, be assigned tokens, be target locked, etc.).

Ships must be docked pregame, during squad building, and players must pay squad points for these ships as normal.

If the carrier ship flees the battlefield, it and all its docked ships are destroyed.

If the carrier ship is destroyed (but has not fled the battlefield), before it is removed from the play area, each docked ship receives 1 facedown Damage card and must immediately deploy. Ships deployed in this fashion cannot attack until the following round.

...

So according to this rule the Natasha pup starts with a damage card? Well that makes the hounds tooth unplayable.

No, because the Nashtah Pup isn't docked.

Nashta Pup is just weird in general rules wise.

This is what happens when you write in english and not in rules.

Bt, its internet. must shorten all.

Fixed that for you.

Just because you misunderstood a rule (which is understandable, the card could have been phrased better), doesn't mean the rule is gonna change just to conform to you.

X-Wing isn't a public school.

Don't know what public schools you've seen lately. Common Core and Smarter Balanced Scores or Bust. But even common core is subservient to test scores... Public schools are at the mercy of the test making corporations. Corporations aren't exactly known for their "Individual Flexibility".

As someone who is married to a school psychologist I can say that common core and end of grade testing has very little if any valid psychometrics going into its creation. Basically some random teachers and school admin were asked 'what do you think 3rd graders ought to know?' And there you go. I guess that's what happens when politicians dictate education on a national level. What happened to local and state control?

Ok political rant over. We should get back to bashing the prequels for having so much politics in them!

Oh I know it's a total crapshoot. But if your students don't do well on it your job as an educator is in danger and your school could lose funding and have any flexibility it had taken away.

The common core is a lot like the resistance, it has good ideas but goes about them the wrong way... Violence and terrorism are not the answer.

Now the Imperial Academy, that I can get behind. Best of the best. Exacting standards. Well funded...