Hi guys,

Another question from a noob! Can (Improved) Reflect be used against any ranged attack? Such as those coming from ranged force powers like Unleash? We've seen in canon that a lightsaber can not only absorb Sith Lightning but also direct it back at the sith using it.

I get the feeling I will be seeing Sith in my campaign eventually, so if I can use this, it would be awesome.

yes on unleash. depends on other things. Like slugthrowers I don't think you can you could use improved reflect on.

IIRC, Improved Reflect is only useable for Ranged (Light), Ranged (Heavy), and Gunnery attacks.

The Protect power is the thing that is designed to "redirect" an Unleash attack.

IIRC, Improved Reflect is only useable for Ranged (Light), Ranged (Heavy), and Gunnery attacks.

The Protect power is the thing that is designed to "redirect" an Unleash attack.

I can't find where it says that. Any page reference?

Says what? About the skills? That would be in the talents chapter. I don't have the book to hand at the moment...lent it to one of my players a month ago and haven't seen him since... :-p but the actual talent description (not the shorthand version in the talent trees, but the long version in the Talents chapter) should spell it out pretty clearly for you either way.

lent it to one of my players a month ago and haven't seen him since

You better round yerself up a posse, pardner. Sounds like you've got yerself a bandit problem.

IIRC, Improved Reflect is only useable for Ranged (Light), Ranged (Heavy), and Gunnery attacks.

The Protect power is the thing that is designed to "redirect" an Unleash attack.

I would definitely agree that Yoda used Protect to stop and redirect Unleash on several occasions. Though for the lightsaber's Improved Reflect, I think it should be applicable to Unleash as well. Didn't Mace Windu redirect Palpatine's force lightning (Unleash) back on him? Maybe I'm misinterpreting the event, but it at least "seems" like that's what he was doing.

Didn't Mace Windu redirect Palpatine's force lightning (Unleash) back on him? Maybe I'm misinterpreting the event, but it at least "seems" like that's what he was doing.

It was. It's possible a future talent/Signature Ability could be used to achieve a similar effect as Improved Reflect that can apply to Unleash, but RAW, it's just narrative flair on Protect.

read the last paragraph of improved reflect. It says ranged attack must be able to be reflected. generally blasters and other energy attacks. anything else is subject to GM oversight. Which to me says up to the GM as to whether it works or not. given that force lightning is an energy attack....and Mace was able to do it....

read the last paragraph of improved reflect. It says ranged attack must be able to be reflected. generally blasters and other energy attacks. anything else is subject to GM oversight. Which to me says up to the GM as to whether it works or not. given that force lightning is an energy attack....and Mace was able to do it....

It's a requirement used in conjunction with the Ranged (Light), Ranged (Heavy), and Gunnery combat check requirement. It's basically saying that while Reflect could potentially be used on more solid bullets or to stop things like the circular stun beams used on Leia in the beginning of A New Hope, that Improved Reflect specifically needs those things that could be blocked by Reflect to also be capable of being able to bounce off the saber towards a target, otherwise you can't trigger Improved Reflect.

So it doesn't matter if Unleash is energy based and can be bounced off of things, because RAW, you can't use the base Reflect talent in the first place.

Didn't Mace Windu redirect Palpatine's force lightning (Unleash) back on him? Maybe I'm misinterpreting the event, but it at least "seems" like that's what he was doing.

It was. It's possible a future talent/Signature Ability could be used to achieve a similar effect as Improved Reflect that can apply to Unleash, but RAW, it's just narrative flair on Protect.

Going by the RotS novelization (an excellent read btw), Mace Windu was using his Vaapad ability to literally turn Palpatine's dark side power back against him, up to and including shoving the Sith Lord's Force Lightning attack back into the old man's face. How much of that Palpatine allowed is up for debate, but if was indeed a gambit on his part, then I applaud him for being willing to put himself at that much risk to get Anakin on his side seeing as how Windu could very easily have killed him at that point.

Odds are, it's either a Signature Ability (probably for the Warrior career if the splatbook includes a Juyo-based specialization), or more likely Windu was using the Protect power with a narrative flair of using his lightsaber.

For what it's worth, we do see Obi-Wan using his lightsaber to deflect Dooku's usage of Force Lightning in AotC, but that was probably done to set-up the idea that Force Lightning could be stopped by a Jedi before Yoda walked in and stopped what had previously (at least in RotJ) been an unstoppable attack with his bare hands.

read the last paragraph of improved reflect. It says ranged attack must be able to be reflected. generally blasters and other energy attacks. anything else is subject to GM oversight. Which to me says up to the GM as to whether it works or not. given that force lightning is an energy attack....and Mace was able to do it....

It's a requirement used in conjunction with the Ranged (Light), Ranged (Heavy), and Gunnery combat check requirement. It's basically saying that while Reflect could potentially be used on more solid bullets or to stop things like the circular stun beams used on Leia in the beginning of A New Hope, that Improved Reflect specifically needs those things that could be blocked by Reflect to also be capable of being able to bounce off the saber towards a target, otherwise you can't trigger Improved Reflect.

So it doesn't matter if Unleash is energy based and can be bounced off of things, because RAW, you can't use the base Reflect talent in the first place.

And yet the ability also says it is up to the GM. So I would rule that RAW says it is up to the GM as to whether it can be used on unleash. The GM fiat part is more inclusive.

Didn't Mace Windu redirect Palpatine's force lightning (Unleash) back on him? Maybe I'm misinterpreting the event, but it at least "seems" like that's what he was doing.

It was. It's possible a future talent/Signature Ability could be used to achieve a similar effect as Improved Reflect that can apply to Unleash, but RAW, it's just narrative flair on Protect.

Going by the RotS novelization (an excellent read btw), Mace Windu was using his Vaapad ability to literally turn Palpatine's dark side power back against him, up to and including shoving the Sith Lord's Force Lightning attack back into the old man's face. How much of that Palpatine allowed is up for debate, but if was indeed a gambit on his part, then I applaud him for being willing to put himself at that much risk to get Anakin on his side seeing as how Windu could very easily have killed him at that point.

Odds are, it's either a Signature Ability (probably for the Warrior career if the splatbook includes a Juyo-based specialization), or more likely Windu was using the Protect power with a narrative flair of using his lightsaber.

For what it's worth, we do see Obi-Wan using his lightsaber to deflect Dooku's usage of Force Lightning in AotC, but that was probably done to set-up the idea that Force Lightning could be stopped by a Jedi before Yoda walked in and stopped what had previously (at least in RotJ) been an unstoppable attack with his bare hands.

I was aware of the Vaapad affect on Dark Side abilities, the lightning in particular. Though it's difficult to speculate since we have no idea what Vaapad will actually be capable of if/when FFG releases it. For the moment, I'd leave the Improved Reflect vs Unleash in the hands of the GM.

I personally would allow a lightsaber to use Reflect, but not Improved Reflect vs Unleash. I like Obi-Won's ability to block the lightning, without actually being able to turn it back on the user. I would say what Windu did was use Protect with narrative flair on the lightsabers part. At least until we can see what Vaapad can really do!

And yet the ability also says it is up to the GM. So I would rule that RAW says it is up to the GM as to whether it can be used on unleash. The GM fiat part is more inclusive.

And it also says you've got to be able to use Reflect to reduce the damage of the hit. And Reflect itself makes no mention of GMs changing it to how they prefer, meaning it's still constrained to attacks based on Ranged (Light), Ranged (Heavy), and Gunnery.

Now, I'm not saying GMs are in the wrong or anything if they decide to change how Reflect/Improved Reflect work in regards to Unleash; and it's definitely totally in their right and ability to do so. I'm just saying that RAW, even with the "GM's can decide what they choose" clause, isn't meant to include Unleash.

So after reading everything I could, Unleash says to make a Ranged Combat check using discipline. I would argue that it makes it a reflectable thing.

PLUS

Protect says REDUCE DAMAGE FROM AN ENERGY BASED WEAPON, not a Force Power or ranged attack using slugs, missiles etc.

So if anything this is more evidence Reflect can be used.

It being keyed off Discipline is the biggest argument against Reflect working on it.

Protect says REDUCE DAMAGE FROM AN ENERGY BASED WEAPON, not a Force Power or ranged attack using slugs, missiles etc.

Pg. 301. "Once the power is activated, if the target of the power suffers a hit from a blaster shot, Force power, lightsaber, or other energy attack before the beginning of the user’s next turn." And then there's the Control Upgrade that just makes it work against everything.

So after reading everything I could, Unleash says to make a Ranged Combat check using discipline.

It being keyed off Discipline is the biggest argument against Reflect working on it.

Protect says REDUCE DAMAGE FROM AN ENERGY BASED WEAPON, not a Force Power or ranged attack using slugs, missiles etc.

Pg. 301. "Once the power is activated, if the target of the power suffers a hit from a blaster shot, Force power, lightsaber, or other energy attack before the beginning of the user’s next turn." And then there's the Control Upgrade that just makes it work against everything.

Thanks for the page ref, I don't have access to the book all the time so that helps a lot!