Hell, I'll be happy to take 3 x Onyx, TIE Mk II.

That's a lovely K-turn, going from left to right.

2 TLTs can effectively shoot every turn, and down a TIE a turn.

2 TLTs are max 4 damage. How do you propose to down a 5 hitpoint TIE Advanced a turn?

You're right ey. My bad. I was thinking of the TIE advanced prototype for some reason.

Even so, if they down a TIE every 2-3 turns, the ghost still comes ahead by leaps and bounds.

First off, that's a big if right there. A TLT won't do you much good if you're up close and personal.

Note that I'm not saying it'll be easy and that the Ghost is dead in the water. But it also isn't the green nuclear army out of Return of the King.

Note that I'm not saying it'll be easy and that the Ghost is dead in the water. But it also isn't the green nuclear army out of Return of the King.

Agreed, but the Ghost is pretty powerful, and almost a hard counter to every single type of list out there regardless. Regular lists like imperial aces, PWTs, 2-ship meta, TLT stressbot, swarms perform badly against it.

Note that I'm not saying it'll be easy and that the Ghost is dead in the water. But it also isn't the green nuclear army out of Return of the King.

Agreed, but the Ghost is pretty powerful, and almost a hard counter to every single type of list out there regardless. Regular lists like imperial aces, PWTs, 2-ship meta, TLT stressbot, swarms perform badly against it.

You are pretty convinced for a ship we've known barely any details of until a few hours ago.

Even with the Phantom docked it's a souped up Firespray where arcs are concerned, and without it it's a beefed up YT-2400 without the Outrider title.

Besides, just like there's an antidote close by to poisonous plants in nature, so do waves come with the needed counters.

2 TLTs can effectively shoot every turn, and down a TIE a turn.

2 TLTs are max 4 damage. How do you propose to down a 5 hitpoint TIE Advanced a turn?

it aint

not to mention 3 AC tempest are 63 points and TLTs have a doughtnut hole

I liked where the game was at. Then the ghost came out. This ship should be worth more points. It doesn't even look like its from the SW universe. what I liked about the decimator was that it had a unique role that was only in the imperial faction. Then the rebels get the ghost. I seem to be the only one who doesn't like it though. The new dorsal turrets in my opinion are the only good thing to come from it. This is not the ship I'm looking for. Move along. Mobe along.

why are we saying the ghost should be more expensive when we havn't even played it yet?

also, the only similarity between the deci and the ghost is the 16 health, 0 agility

as much as I wish the PWT wasn't there (boring sh*tty mechanic) it is, and it's a world of ******* difference

Now, the rebels already had a VT-49 before ghost was even conceived, and its name is the YT-1300

(not kidding, the Decimator was conceived as "an evil millennium falcon" and it was introduced to X-wing to give imperials a PWT...why imperials would want such garbage is beyond me. Maybe they knew we'd be getting the awesome that is Oicuun.)

Don't think its anything a bbbbz list of 8tie swarm couldn't handle

Don't think its anything a bbbbz list of 8tie swarm couldn't handle

The great thing about the TIE swarm is that you are likely to bypass the new Reinforced Deflectors if they're equipped since you're throwing 3 dice max.

Note that I'm not saying it'll be easy and that the Ghost is dead in the water. But it also isn't the green nuclear army out of Return of the King.

Agreed, but the Ghost is pretty powerful, and almost a hard counter to every single type of list out there regardless. Regular lists like imperial aces, PWTs, 2-ship meta, TLT stressbot, swarms perform badly against it.

TLT swarm should do alright against it. The Ghost can at most make three attacks a turn, because the Phantom title works like Gunner. It won't allow both attacks from a TLT. Four Y-Wings can lay down eight shots on the Ghost, which are basically guaranteed to land eight damage.

It gets a bit more complicated if the Attack Shuttle deploys and starts chasing the Y-Wings, but we'll have to see the dial before we can even try to sort out how that would go. The Shuttle also has low agility protecting four health, so TLTs should be able to shred it pretty quickly.

I think it's too early to say: "This ship will DEFINITELY win/lose against this list". I think it's going to be strong and some lists will struggle but I'm willing to wait and see. Nothing is unbeatable and we don't know what else Wave 8 has in store. Can't wait for Punishing One and Mist Hunter details. Admittedly it looks a little under-costed for its power but we'll have to see how it actually performs.

I for one welcome our 'Rebels' overlords...

yeah, it's not even close to that good, I'm afraid

0 agility means 2 attack will shred it, and lack of EPT means it's far less powerful than 4 dice suggest it would be; especially far less than a phantom or aggressor

having both 4 dice + TLT belies the fact that it's two ships in one and costs as much as two ships in one

AC advance will drop it right quick, if looking at raw stats

basically, the ghost isn't that simple

Nope. It has a native evade action. 3 AC advanced will take 4 turns to drop JUST the ghost (2 dmg average per ship, evade one, 5 dmg per turn) IF it can shoot every turn. Plus, they need to position, aim and shoot.

Meanwhile, TLT ghost and TLT shuttle is only ~80pts with upgrades, and they can stuff another z95 to shed evades. 2 TLTs can effectively shoot every turn, and down a TIE a turn. Even if they down the ghost, they'll be down to 1 badly damaged tie.

There are no existing counters to a ghost, while it counters pretty much anything, the way I see it.

Don't get me wrong, I'd be happy to be proven wrong, since I have 0 intention of getting the ghost.

The thing to remember about AC Tempests, is that they will likely have Cluster Missiles. Which really, really adds up quick against low Agi ships.

I think it's too early to say: "This ship will DEFINITELY win/lose against this list". I think it's going to be strong and some lists will struggle but I'm willing to wait and see. Nothing is unbeatable and we don't know what else Wave 8 has in store. Can't wait for Punishing One and Mist Hunter details. Admittedly it looks a little under-costed for its power but we'll have to see how it actually performs.

I for one welcome our 'Rebels' overlords...

I actually think it's kinda wimpy atm, if only because there's a sinking suspicion that the dial is going to heave

0 agility ships go down hard, and the only reason the deci sticks around is because of its brainless PWT leaving its maneuver options completely open + cheri's high PS + boost. Ghost is not brainless, it has a locked forward firing arc and even adding a turret makes it pretty inefficient.

Then there's no EPT, some synergy with gunner (FCS) provided the dial doesn't suck all the ass (due to direct anti-synergy with Ghost/Phantom) or if those bombs could be put to good use

basically, we need to see the dial. If it's no bueno, then it's simply not going to be that great

The Writers are the same ones that wrote the Clone Wars and they worked closely with Lucus that whole time.

Haha.....Lucus.....haha....... LUCUS......... HAHAHAHAHHA!!!!!!!...... sorry.... Having a bad day........ You made my Day

I think it's too early to say: "This ship will DEFINITELY win/lose against this list". I think it's going to be strong and some lists will struggle but I'm willing to wait and see. Nothing is unbeatable and we don't know what else Wave 8 has in store. Can't wait for Punishing One and Mist Hunter details. Admittedly it looks a little under-costed for its power but we'll have to see how it actually performs.

I for one welcome our 'Rebels' overlords...

I actually think it's kinda wimpy atm, if only because there's a sinking suspicion that the dial is going to heave

0 agility ships go down hard, and the only reason the deci sticks around is because of its brainless PWT leaving its maneuver options completely open + cheri's high PS + boost. Ghost is not brainless, it has a locked forward firing arc and even adding a turret makes it pretty inefficient.

Then there's no EPT, some synergy with gunner (FCS) provided the dial doesn't suck all the ass (due to direct anti-synergy with Ghost/Phantom) or if those bombs could be put to good use

basically, we need to see the dial. If it's no bueno, then it's simply not going to be that great

I agree, it is going to need a good dial as it doesn't have boost or barrel roll. It can get hung up so quickly in asteroids it won't even be funny.

Is engine upgrade going to be an auto-include?

I think it's too early to say: "This ship will DEFINITELY win/lose against this list". I think it's going to be strong and some lists will struggle but I'm willing to wait and see. Nothing is unbeatable and we don't know what else Wave 8 has in store. Can't wait for Punishing One and Mist Hunter details. Admittedly it looks a little under-costed for its power but we'll have to see how it actually performs.

I for one welcome our 'Rebels' overlords...

I actually think it's kinda wimpy atm, if only because there's a sinking suspicion that the dial is going to heave

0 agility ships go down hard, and the only reason the deci sticks around is because of its brainless PWT leaving its maneuver options completely open + cheri's high PS + boost. Ghost is not brainless, it has a locked forward firing arc and even adding a turret makes it pretty inefficient.

Then there's no EPT, some synergy with gunner (FCS) provided the dial doesn't suck all the ass (due to direct anti-synergy with Ghost/Phantom) or if those bombs could be put to good use

basically, we need to see the dial. If it's no bueno, then it's simply not going to be that great

I agree, it is going to need a good dial as it doesn't have boost or barrel roll. It can get hung up so quickly in asteroids it won't even be funny.

Is engine upgrade going to be an auto-include?

Not with that dial I don't think. It'll be useful, to be sure, but EU as is isn't an auto-include on the Scuttle and I'm expecting a similar dial.

Also, while I'm with the crowd that thinks the Ghost is at least as un-Star Warsy as the Virago (more in my mind due to the weird Lego Space docking), I really don't think this ship is the hard counter to everything. Cost + 0 Agility really hurts, and it can't get by on high PS/start of combat boosting the way Chiri can.

If you're running the shuttle buzzsaw, then EU is pretty close to autoinclude, unless super-tight on points. If you were somehow running it as 80% of your list then it 100% would be!

EU ghost will be everywhere.

I agree, it is going to need a good dial as it doesn't have boost or barrel roll. It can get hung up so quickly in asteroids it won't even be funny.

Is engine upgrade going to be an auto-include?

You don't know how to maneuver around them?

If you're running the shuttle buzzsaw, then EU is pretty close to autoinclude, unless super-tight on points. If you were somehow running it as 80% of your list then it 100% would be!

EU ghost will be everywhere.

Doesn't work on the gunscuttle (Bossk gives you stress), but I could see it on the Ghost (regular shuttle does have plenty of red on its dial, so it's not beyond the pale). That being said, boost is then competing with evade which is even more important than it is on the Falcon considering that 3PO is useless on the Ghost.

I agree, it is going to need a good dial as it doesn't have boost or barrel roll. It can get hung up so quickly in asteroids it won't even be funny.

Is engine upgrade going to be an auto-include?

You don't know how to maneuver around them?

No, I thought the idea was to hit as many as possible.

If you're running the shuttle buzzsaw, then EU is pretty close to autoinclude, unless super-tight on points. If you were somehow running it as 80% of your list then it 100% would be!

EU ghost will be everywhere.

Doesn't work on the gunscuttle (Bossk gives you stress), but I could see it on the Ghost (regular shuttle does have plenty of red on its dial, so it's not beyond the pale). That being said, boost is then competing with evade which is even more important than it is on the Falcon considering that 3PO is useless on the Ghost.

Good point, but lets be straight here - there are many times in a game where a boost is worth 3+ evade tokens on a 0 agility ship. It will depend on the context. Arc dodging and doughnutting save you more health than evading. Another way of putting it is: if you want your big 'ol freighter to live alittle longer, you'll be wanting both damage mitigation AND avoidance.

I may have read through too quickly but has no one been talking about taking the Ion Cannon Turret on the Ghost? I feel like that would be the ideal way to make up for a limited dial and lack of EPT slot. Hera with a cheap Phantom, Zeb, FCS, and an ICT? I feel like that would terrify an awful lot of Small ships. Either that or swap out the FCS for the Deflectors and maybe add a Gunner in there.

Against a Decimator though, well, point-for-point we've got some solid numbers but I'd give it to the Ghost at first and gradually shift towards the Decimator as you spend more points. 60-someodd point EU Chiraneau is going to have a great shot against a similarly-costed Hera simply due to PS, options, and angle of attack. The pressure is going to be on Hera to build/counterbuild to deal with a high-PS EU turret (nothing new there right?). Either that or bring the right support.

To be fair, you can play stuff differently based on what you've facing; I feel deploying the Phantom early against a Large boosting turret would be generally more helpful since more guns work better than bigger guns against the likes of Han and Chiraneau, but their PS is where you're going to have a hard time again without exceptional piloting.

I'd expect something more like a Y wing than Lambda. Green straights, red 3 turns. Might even expect a K turn because it has a front arc and getting turned around might otherwise be problematic.

Remember how many people were convinced the Decimator would be slow and lumbering? It doesn't have a K turn, but it's not slow. The Ghost spread shows a green 4 straight, and with Hera's ability, we can expect multiple reds.

I expect not a great dial but not a bad one. Calling a K turn and red and white hard turns.

I question whether it's dial will really make it play comparable to a Decimator. What if it doesn't have a K Turn?

Big ship Primary arc vs Big Ship Turret arc, equal points, I would favor Turret arc every time. And I know, it can equip TLT or Dorsal Turret, but those are both range exploitable turrets. Brobots is only able to beat Decimator due to Autothrusters and multiple K Turn possibilities, otherwise it'd get beat up by turret arc.

All things considered, it becomes a skill matchup, where either player has an equally viable chance at winning, and both probably have equal chances to take out the other.