My FLGS is currently running a two-week Team Epic tourney (400 points, must include at least one Epic ship). They've done this a few times, but there are a few common errors that seem to come up a lot that are worth noting:

1) Epic ships are SLOW. The fastest epic ship without an Engine Booster will only be moving an amount equal to a small ship doing a 3-straight, or a large ship doing a 2-straight. Keep that in mind when you plan your deployment. If your huge ship is going to take 4 rounds to get into the fight, and the rest of your squad will be there in two, then that's a heavy point advantage for your opponent during those first few rounds. This is especially crucial if you're playing against a time-limit.

2) Know how damage works. The Vader Raider is popular, but one thing that isn't as commonly noted is the way the damage works. According to the damage rules, when a huge ship suffers damage that does not explicitly affect a single section, then the opposing player gets to choose where that damage comes from. I'll confess that I had overlooked this particular rule the first couple of times I entered a tourney like this.

3) Have a plan for energy management. Sure, it may seem neat to have a Comms Booster, and three energy weapons on Hardpoints, but you're going to be on fumes within a few rounds. Consider leaving a hardpoint empty or use energy-efficient weapons like Quad Lasers. Alternately, make sure to bring the Tibanna Gas Supplies.

Any others that I'm missing? Beyond the smart-alecky answer of "Don't use epic ships?"

Try not to fire STL with out a target lock you will find it a good way to waist energy so take sensor teams

I disagree on 1 with you, they are not slow but most of the time you want to fly them slow so that you recharge max energy.

Don't forget also that although small and large ships start within range 1, a huge ship for section will be at range 2-3 after placement!

I ve done mistake 2 a few times myself too!

4) Don't put on the same section with your reinforce action, cards like Repair-droid that require an action!

5) Have someone cover the rear, it is the weakest point on the Huge ship because that's where the blind spot for the arc is. A single Z-95 that manages to get right behind a huge ship will take down the aft section in a few rounds.

6) Protect the aft section above everything, because that's where energy is stored. If that section gets crippled you will be storing max 1-2 energy each round (on the current ships at least). Huge ship without energy = dead ship.

7) You check the range from the base of the aft section on the Raider. You don't check for range from the arc line edge in the middle of the ship token.

8) Only weapons upgrade cards start with energy. All other cards, like Ionization Reactor start with no energy.

Don't forget also that although small and large ships start within range 1, a huge ship for section will be at range 2-3 after placement!

I ve done mistake 2 a few times myself too!

Oh look, here is one, all ships deploy up to range 2 onto the battlefield in epic, though Huge ships can extend out of that if touching the baseline (much like large ships in standard).

Don't forget also that although small and large ships start within range 1, a huge ship for section will be at range 2-3 after placement!

I ve done mistake 2 a few times myself too!

Oh look, here is one, all ships deploy up to range 2 onto the battlefield in epic, though Huge ships can extend out of that if touching the baseline (much like large ships in standard).

HaHaHa, nice one I ve been doing that wrong for a while!

9) Small and large ships start fully within range 1-2 of the battlefield!!!

This means you actually cant have them at range one at all!

Don't forget also that although small and large ships start within range 1, a huge ship for section will be at range 2-3 after placement!

I ve done mistake 2 a few times myself too!

Oh look, here is one, all ships deploy up to range 2 onto the battlefield in epic, though Huge ships can extend out of that if touching the baseline (much like large ships in standard).

HaHaHa, nice one I ve been doing that wrong for a while!

9) Small and large ships start fully within range 1-2 of the battlefield!!!

This means you actually cant have them at range one at all!

No it means fully within range bands 1 and 2 (combined). Think of that terminology as creating a a new range increment that consists of range 1 plus range 2. If it meant what you said (i.e. "can't deploy at range at all!"), they would have said "Within range 2 of the battlefield" or some such. Essentially it simplifies to, "you may deploy up to range 2 onto the battlefield from your edge".

The Raider does not get to make 3 attacks a turn.

No, i'm serious. A guy at my FLGS after the release of the Raider interpreted the rules horribly wrong and thought the Raider could make 3 attacks a turn with the right upgrades. By the time we fixed the rules mishap, it was already done for the Rebels who simply could not handle taking 3 shots from the Raider every single turn.

2) Know how damage works. The Vader Raider is popular, but one thing that isn't as commonly noted is the way the damage works. According to the damage rules, when a huge ship suffers damage that does not explicitly affect a single section, then the opposing player gets to choose where that damage comes from. I'll confess that I had overlooked this particular rule the first couple of times I entered a tourney like this.

Great thread & tips! I haven't played epic though; what's the significance of this "where the damage comes from"? What is it affecting/combo is it breaking?

Its Darth Vader crew on the Raider. It basically means that the Raider can kill an interceptor at range 4 even if it missed all 3 attacks (main twice + 1 ion).

What people would do is take shield from the aft section that is gonging to be away from combat for a while and recharge shields.

And if he managed to self inflict too much damage on the aft section to be ready to pop, he could start getting damage on the fore section.

Now that the defender chooses where the damage comes from, once a section is ready to get crippled Vader becomes almost useless.

Or if he is focus firing a section with his low PS ships, he can choose to take away the shields from that section if the other guy uses Vader and his attacks put crits to the hull.

The Raider does not get to make 3 attacks a turn.

No, i'm serious. A guy at my FLGS after the release of the Raider interpreted the rules horribly wrong and thought the Raider could make 3 attacks a turn with the right upgrades. By the time we fixed the rules mishap, it was already done for the Rebels who simply could not handle taking 3 shots from the Raider every single turn.

To be clear, the Raider can potentially make up to 6 attacks in a turn - primary, spend two energy to fire primary again, three secondary weapons, and then gunner if you miss the last shot to get one more primary. Of course, you won't always be in a position to do so, and Gunner is not a good upgrade for the Raider.

The Raider does not get to make 3 attacks a turn.

No, i'm serious. A guy at my FLGS after the release of the Raider interpreted the rules horribly wrong and thought the Raider could make 3 attacks a turn with the right upgrades. By the time we fixed the rules mishap, it was already done for the Rebels who simply could not handle taking 3 shots from the Raider every single turn.

To be clear, the Raider can potentially make up to 6 attacks in a turn - primary, spend two energy to fire primary again, three secondary weapons, and then gunner if you miss the last shot to get one more primary. Of course, you won't always be in a position to do so, and Gunner is not a good upgrade for the Raider.

My guy thought the Raider got to make 2 attacks because of the statement about how many attacks a Raider could make, which was 2. He then read the "separate" rule that you could then spend 2 energy to fire again, but didnt know that was for the second attack, and interpreted that to mean he could shoot 3 times, then fire all his secondaries. It was complete devastation.

I disagree on 1 with you, they are not slow but most of the time you want to fly them slow so that you recharge max energy.

Don't forget also that although small and large ships start within range 1, a huge ship for section will be at range 2-3 after placement!

I ve done mistake 2 a few times myself too!

They are slower. Sure they have to stick to halfway between range 2 and 3 if placed flushed against the edge but that extra bit of initial reach soon goes away after the first 2 turns. Huge ships don't add their base to their straight maneuvers so each straight is 1 less than its smaller counterpart. Furthermore the huge ship takes 3 banks to make a 90 degree turn where as all other ships banks only take 2. So turning those ships is even far less than regular starfighters. Also don't forget the fishtail. At the event there was a raider that hit its own Decimator (RAdm Chipry of all) and accidentally crushed it. Last tournament we had a CR-90 end up fishtailing the base off the edge but instead of destroying the huge ship we house ruled it to treating it like hitting an obstacle and the rear section took a face up damage card.

So common problems with epic. Well it is the huge ships (and I am not talking about the point efficiency or jousting values here). They just play so differently and have such different rules epic is like a whole new game, it moves closer to the scattered rules set of Warhammer instead of X-wing. Things like free actions (which is going to change) focus, energy flow, action and stress tokens, and sections all make for a very different game. Simply studying the huge ship rules and doing a practice deployment before you start the game will help get the game going faster. To set up it took over an hour before the first activation phase.

As for list building it is common to get blinded by huge ships and the starfighters are treated like fillers. Saw a rebel Q-ship aka slice and dice but the problem was the besides the jam action the squadron had only 1 other stress producer a stress hog with R3-A2. If you make a slicer tool ship you will need more stress effects such as flechete torpedoes and cannons. Otherwise it is better as a support ship.

Keep your escorts in tight... let them come to you.

I disagree on 1 with you, they are not slow but most of the time you want to fly them slow so that you recharge max energy.

Don't forget also that although small and large ships start within range 1, a huge ship for section will be at range 2-3 after placement!

I ve done mistake 2 a few times myself too!

They are slower. Sure they have to stick to halfway between range 2 and 3 if placed flushed against the edge but that extra bit of initial reach soon goes away after the first 2 turns. Huge ships don't add their base to their straight maneuvers so each straight is 1 less than its smaller counterpart. Furthermore the huge ship takes 3 banks to make a 90 degree turn where as all other ships banks only take 2. So turning those ships is even far less than regular starfighters. Also don't forget the fishtail. At the event there was a raider that hit its own Decimator (RAdm Chipry of all) and accidentally crushed it. Last tournament we had a CR-90 end up fishtailing the base off the edge but instead of destroying the huge ship we house ruled it to treating it like hitting an obstacle and the rear section took a face up damage card.

I agree with you with all but the "fishtail" huge ship drift. The first thing I do when I introduce a new player to Huge ship maneuvers is to set it parallel to the edge and have them make a turn. I believe its an essential part of the game and should be not house-ruled out. When flying casual, I let people stay in game even if they flew a small ship out of the map accidentally. In a tournament though I would not.

I disagree on 1 with you, they are not slow but most of the time you want to fly them slow so that you recharge max energy.

Don't forget also that although small and large ships start within range 1, a huge ship for section will be at range 2-3 after placement!

I ve done mistake 2 a few times myself too!

They are slower. Sure they have to stick to halfway between range 2 and 3 if placed flushed against the edge but that extra bit of initial reach soon goes away after the first 2 turns. Huge ships don't add their base to their straight maneuvers so each straight is 1 less than its smaller counterpart. Furthermore the huge ship takes 3 banks to make a 90 degree turn where as all other ships banks only take 2. So turning those ships is even far less than regular starfighters. Also don't forget the fishtail. At the event there was a raider that hit its own Decimator (RAdm Chipry of all) and accidentally crushed it. Last tournament we had a CR-90 end up fishtailing the base off the edge but instead of destroying the huge ship we house ruled it to treating it like hitting an obstacle and the rear section took a face up damage card.

I agree with you with all but the "fishtail" huge ship drift. The first thing I do when I introduce a new player to Huge ship maneuvers is to set it parallel to the edge and have them make a turn. I believe its an essential part of the game and should be not house-ruled out. When flying casual, I let people stay in game even if they flew a small ship out of the map accidentally. In a tournament though I would not.

If it was a big prize tournament sure, but to be fair we wanted to see huge ships in play. It was the first match we got to field the raider and watching a CR-90 disappear before the Raider got to face it would have been a waste of time and even more so feel like a waste of money for anyone that paid $90+ for a huge ship.

Lets face it, epic is not all that finely tuned and balanced for tournament play as standard X-wing or even Armada. You just can't treat Epic like a tournament unless you only are with people that play epic no fewer than twice a month. With epic matches taking 3 hours (maybe 2.5 but again that would be with people that play Epic on a monthly basis) it would not be a pleasant experience. If you want more people to play epic you are going to have to make the first few games as interesting as possible. 2.5 hour matches and the instant loss of a huge ship due to not being familiar with the bases and maneuvers or epic will get a player to post his X-wing collection on eBay faster than a Warhammer Fantasy player upset about Age of Sigmar.

Contrary to popular belief most players that have huge ships bought it for more than just C-3P0 and the TIE/x1 title. You won't get much play from them if on the first or second turn it is removed form the table.

The Raider does not get to make 3 attacks a turn.

No, i'm serious. A guy at my FLGS after the release of the Raider interpreted the rules horribly wrong and thought the Raider could make 3 attacks a turn with the right upgrades. By the time we fixed the rules mishap, it was already done for the Rebels who simply could not handle taking 3 shots from the Raider every single turn.

2) Know how damage works. The Vader Raider is popular, but one thing that isn't as commonly noted is the way the damage works. According to the damage rules, when a huge ship suffers damage that does not explicitly affect a single section, then the opposing player gets to choose where that damage comes from. I'll confess that I had overlooked this particular rule the first couple of times I entered a tourney like this.

Great thread & tips! I haven't played epic though; what's the significance of this "where the damage comes from"? What is it affecting/combo is it breaking?

I think he means where the damage is dealt to. not where it came from.

What I think hes saying is. If you attack the front of a CR with the Raider, and now the front has no shields ->

you attempt to Vader it (removing 2 shields from any 1/2 of your own sides) ->

he can take the crit upon any section he chooses... such as the aft with shields left....

or the aft thats crippled and takes no more damage.

Which... is really kind of rules-y and annoying.

There goes my Vader build.

---

Like I've said. Epic HAS TOO MANY RULES AND EXCEPTIONS! LISTEN FFG!

I disagree on 1 with you, they are not slow but most of the time you want to fly them slow so that you recharge max energy.

Don't forget also that although small and large ships start within range 1, a huge ship for section will be at range 2-3 after placement!

I ve done mistake 2 a few times myself too!

They are slower. Sure they have to stick to halfway between range 2 and 3 if placed flushed against the edge but that extra bit of initial reach soon goes away after the first 2 turns. Huge ships don't add their base to their straight maneuvers so each straight is 1 less than its smaller counterpart. Furthermore the huge ship takes 3 banks to make a 90 degree turn where as all other ships banks only take 2. So turning those ships is even far less than regular starfighters. Also don't forget the fishtail. At the event there was a raider that hit its own Decimator (RAdm Chipry of all) and accidentally crushed it. Last tournament we had a CR-90 end up fishtailing the base off the edge but instead of destroying the huge ship we house ruled it to treating it like hitting an obstacle and the rear section took a face up damage card.

I agree with you with all but the "fishtail" huge ship drift. The first thing I do when I introduce a new player to Huge ship maneuvers is to set it parallel to the edge and have them make a turn. I believe its an essential part of the game and should be not house-ruled out. When flying casual, I let people stay in game even if they flew a small ship out of the map accidentally. In a tournament though I would not.

If it was a big prize tournament sure, but to be fair we wanted to see huge ships in play. It was the first match we got to field the raider and watching a CR-90 disappear before the Raider got to face it would have been a waste of time and even more so feel like a waste of money for anyone that paid $90+ for a huge ship.

Lets face it, epic is not all that finely tuned and balanced for tournament play as standard X-wing or even Armada. You just can't treat Epic like a tournament unless you only are with people that play epic no fewer than twice a month. With epic matches taking 3 hours (maybe 2.5 but again that would be with people that play Epic on a monthly basis) it would not be a pleasant experience. If you want more people to play epic you are going to have to make the first few games as interesting as possible. 2.5 hour matches and the instant loss of a huge ship due to not being familiar with the bases and maneuvers or epic will get a player to post his X-wing collection on eBay faster than a Warhammer Fantasy player upset about Age of Sigmar.

Contrary to popular belief most players that have huge ships bought it for more than just C-3P0 and the TIE/x1 title. You won't get much play from them if on the first or second turn it is removed form the table.

My 2 cents on the matter because I can see your point clearly and don't really disagree either. Our only difference is the definition of tournament.

Its totally ok to have a few casual tournament like days to get people to use the bucks they spent. These days help build the community more than anything.

As long as everyone understands that this is going to be a casual day with some presents involved for the participants that's great.

Its a bad idea though to get people think that they play a "tournament" using "official" rules.

From my point of view, tournament rules are like a common language people can use to communicate even if they don't speak the same language.

It will save you from lots of trouble down the road if you ever try to teach the language, not to cut too much slack to people.

Because people develop bad habits and its gonna be progressively harder to fix them later on when the casual once in an odd moon day has turned to a regular event.

PS: I am doing a team epic casual day tomorrow.

My FLGS is currently running a two-week Team Epic tourney (400 points, must include at least one Epic ship). They've done this a few times, but there are a few common errors that seem to come up a lot that are worth noting:

Sounds like you were playing around a table.

My beef is that we play epic so rarely, that it's hard to get a handle on the rules and tactics. But epic tends to take a lot more planning and setup, so it gets played less often, and it's a vicious cycle.

2) Know how damage works. The Vader Raider is popular, but one thing that isn't as commonly noted is the way the damage works. According to the damage rules, when a huge ship suffers damage that does not explicitly affect a single section, then the opposing player gets to choose where that damage comes from. I'll confess that I had overlooked this particular rule the first couple of times I entered a tourney like this.

Great thread & tips! I haven't played epic though; what's the significance of this "where the damage comes from"? What is it affecting/combo is it breaking?

I think he means where the damage is dealt to. not where it came from.

What I think hes saying is. If you attack the front of a CR with the Raider, and now the front has no shields ->

you attempt to Vader it (removing 2 shields from any 1/2 of your own sides) ->

he can take the crit upon any section he chooses... such as the aft with shields left....

or the aft thats crippled and takes no more damage.

Which... is really kind of rules-y and annoying.

There goes my Vader build.

---

Like I've said. Epic HAS TOO MANY RULES AND EXCEPTIONS! LISTEN FFG!

I don't think that's what he's saying. From the rules:

"If a huge ship suffers damage from a source that does not

My biggest tip is you might as well just use the epic ships as a ram if you don't take weapons engineer. The rebels have a huge advantage in Han Solo crew which I am hoping the imperials will get something similar for so cheap.

Screw han solo, they can use 2-3 Focus tokens

because Huge ships are not prohibited to use other ship's Focus tokens, and

1 ) The rebels have a disgusting amount of support for the Tantive: Han Solo, Jan Ors (pilot), Roark, Esege ...

2 ) If you're running a weapons platform, always have Sensor Team, Engineering Team and Weapons Engineer.

3 ) Try to balance the load-out on the Tantive, but load up the Aft on the Raider (because it's very well protected if used properly)

4 ) Blue lines obscure shots on the defender only. Exception is the Tantive turret. For example, if some arc of your Raider hits the Tantive, but pole-to-pole line crosses the Raider's blue line, you can make the shot!

5 ) For small ships that are going for a kill on an Epic ship, have an escape plan. Gettings your ships crushed is bad.

Someone said his raider got totaled in like 2 turns because he deployed it in a way that it was going forward too much and so some 4 HLC BWings made swiss cheese out of it~

Gotta be careful not to go too fast with it either ;p

Don't automatically pit fighters against fighters and epic against epic.

It is highly unlikely that you will play more then a few rounds. Shoot easy to kill expensive things first.