Balance>Fluff every time

Statement is irrelevant as always in a game that uses points.

Anything can be balanced if you charge the right amount of points for it.

Represent the fluff, then figure out what you need to charge for it.

yeah no, that's a load of bull

in a game as intuitive and stream-lined as X-wing, there really isn't much room to waste with the minute bull that people put far too much stock in

being fun to play and worth playing is priority #1, considering this is a game first and foremost. If it were just some flash in the pan crap, we wouldn't have even gotten to the Ghost at all

in short, let the game designers do their amazing job regardless of what tiny liberties they have to take with fluff they translated from an entirely different medium

It's funny watching other people in the thread go crazy over technical details in a space fantasy show anyway. I would say it's less "fluffy" to obsess over gun calibers/reactors/barrels than to just say "it's a plot ship"

ah, but the "plot ship" is already reflected in its stats by being more durable than the gonzati

Well the VT-49 Decimator has more hitpoints than the Rebel transport so everything adds up.

Well considering A-wings are red shirt scrubs and the Phantom is a main character of the show. Of course the phantom will be the only one that will get a good shot. Lets face it, one thing you will not see in Rebels is the Ghost dying unless that is towards the end of the final season and again that would be like last episode crack in the plot armor.

The various members of pheonix squad pull their weight.

Barring vader, but vader operates on a whole other level.

aka villain model main character plot armor. Just slightly weaker than hero main character plot armor. However Vader has an upgrade with the story continuity armor. You know the one that Mace Wendu never had?

Those who live by canon, die by canon.

Something to consider: all the shuttle pilots are unique, they clearly want them to be played, and are likely giving them awesome abilities like Ezra. But! If they made it a two attack ship, what would then happen? Who would bother with fighting something as stupidly defensive as ezra, if it didn't have the offense to hurt? That was the problem with the tie adv. Yeah it was crazy survivable, but didn't do enough damage to matter. Or for that matter when was the last time someone flew a unique z?

It likely won't have a dial anything like the awing. So it won't trip that design space. Since you really can't spam them they need to make it a ship that by itself can contribute to the game. Hence attack 3.

Okay i can agree to almost everything there, just "Stupidly defensive" is a bit off.

Last i checked the shuttle had 2 evade dice, 4 Health and an Evade action. If not for Ezras ability this would be Z-95 level defense. While he can pretty easily get 2 evades pe attack plus his token for an extra, don't forget that either 3-4 attack dice can punch through this easily and if you have enough low powered attacks they will also do the job. After all there are also a lot of blanks on green dice...

There are some more limitations. Ezra wants to be stressed, so PTL is his primary choice as an EPT. That means he wants to oretty much always do green maneuvers. Which might or might not be possible depending on the Shuttle's Dial. (You could also pair him up with his ol' Master for stress relief... But even then it's very possible to kill that shuttle pretty fast.

I think this is just incentive to get the person flying the Ghost to undock the Phantom and nerf their main ship into the ground.

And even stressed, Ezra's ability is hardly foolproof. (remembers popping Gliterstim, only to never roll an eyeball on defense that turn)

And even stressed, Ezra's ability is hardly foolproof. (remembers popping Gliterstim, only to never roll an eyeball on defense that turn)

That's my experience as well. Maybe actually getting off a power attack thanks to 'stim, but sitting there with a stress (unable to do an action next tut, unless doing green; bith deadly when aces in the tail), or having already died due to tons of blanks....

It's not even blanks. If you are stressing yourself, but never get to use his ability, you are sort of overextending yourself. Popping Glitterstim, but never rolling an eyeball is a hit to tempo. Same with Ezra's ability. About the real benefit I see is sending him head first at the Stresshog.

And even stressed, Ezra's ability is hardly foolproof. (remembers popping Gliterstim, only to never roll an eyeball on defense that turn)

That is what makes elusiveness effective on Ezra: you can decide to take take the stress after you have rolled the defense dice. In some cases, taking a single hit might be worth it.

Well considering A-wings are red shirt scrubs and the Phantom is a main character of the show. Of course the phantom will be the only one that will get a good shot. Lets face it, one thing you will not see in Rebels is the Ghost dying unless that is towards the end of the final season and again that would be like last episode crack in the plot armor.

The various members of pheonix squad pull their weight.

Barring vader, but vader operates on a whole other level.

aka villain model main character plot armor. Just slightly weaker than hero main character plot armor. However Vader has an upgrade with the story continuity armor. You know the one that Mace Wendu never had?

Those who live by canon, die by canon.

I'm still saying that good ol Mace survived his plummet and went underground. He survived crazy long falls in the CW cell cartoon and we saw Ani and Obi skydiving all over the place in AoTC. Windu caught onto some passing car/speeder and found his way to some medical attention before hiding out. He got a cyborg hand, or maybe even a cloned hand, and spent he rest of his days living it up in the Outer Rim with some fine honeys being a total BAMF. The end.

Well considering A-wings are red shirt scrubs and the Phantom is a main character of the show. Of course the phantom will be the only one that will get a good shot. Lets face it, one thing you will not see in Rebels is the Ghost dying unless that is towards the end of the final season and again that would be like last episode crack in the plot armor.

The various members of pheonix squad pull their weight.

Barring vader, but vader operates on a whole other level.

aka villain model main character plot armor. Just slightly weaker than hero main character plot armor. However Vader has an upgrade with the story continuity armor. You know the one that Mace Wendu never had?

Those who live by canon, die by cannon.

Fixed it for ya.

There are a lot of cases where in-universe fluff ≠ in-game stats.

The Falcon was the fastest ship in the Rebel fleet at Endor - but in-game an A-wing is faster.

The HWK-290 was an unarmed ship which used speed and maneuverability to escape enemies - in game it has a primary weapon, a turret, and flies like a brick.

There are much much more - but in each instance, the choices were made for a direction the game designers felt was needed - and they used the closest ship they could to fill the role.

Sometimes the designers did incorporate fluff into game design. Eg. the E-wing was supposed to replace the X-wing, but was simply too expensive to truely do so - this is the case both in fluff and in-game.

Wilhelm Screamer, on 05 Dec 2015 - 01:34 AM, said:

It is a custom job fine tuned with time.

Is what Title cards are for.

That, at least, I have one feel of satisfaction with - because there is no "generic" version of the attack shuttle (like there is a 'generic' HWK-260 or YT-1300

Therefore I'm happy to assume that it's always the spectre - since the spectre title only comes into play when paired with the ghost.

I'd still have preferred it to be a 2-attack fighter, but the problem is that since it's got a turret slot, if you power down the forward guns it then ceases to even try and line up on people and just takes something like a twin sodding laser turret.

The fact that it's going to be 'fighter-ey' means the turret concerns me more than the 3 primary attack, to be honest. If they make the dial too good, you've essentially produced mini-dash - a twin laser turret on a fast, barrel rolling ship that's nigh unhittable at range 3.

The fact that it's going to be 'fighter-ey' means the turret concerns me more than the 3 primary attack, to be honest. If they make the dial too good, you've essentially produced mini-dash - a twin laser turret on a fast, barrel rolling ship that's nigh unhittable at range 3.

The Falcon was the fastest ship in the Rebel fleet at Endor - but in-game an A-wing is faster.

Have you seen how fast a large base ship moves across the board as opposed to a small base? A Falcon with Engine upgrade will win a race to the end of the board every time.

And if you're using a TLT you're "wasting" the ship's inbuilt ATT 3.

Exactly. Making it attack 3 makes a cheap(ish), maneuverable turret carrier less tempting as a result. No-one cares about a HWK's primary weapon, but the turret should be more of an afterthought on the attack shuttle.

And it's somewhat more durable than a Z-95. Evade, plus Ezra's ability, doesn't exactly make for TIE interceptor levels of evasion, but it's not exactly 'easy to hit' either.

and furthermore, the Falcon was just as "Mary-Sue" (God I hate that term...) I mean it outran Imperial Destroyers, Destroyed a Death Star, took on Ties...

Balance>Fluff every time

Statement is irrelevant as always in a game that uses points.

Anything can be balanced if you charge the right amount of points for it.

Represent the fluff, then figure out what you need to charge for it.

Yep, he gets it.

It doesn't have to be "completely accurate", but in a game that depends so much on the license for its popularity, you have to make the attempt at theme accuracy, and then balance from there.

This is something that FFG has consistently done pretty well. They are good at walking the line between background accuracy and game balance. Is it perfect? Nah, but it's a pretty darned good attempt.

I am not sure if this attack shuttle is too good for what it does in the show. It may be too good for what it should do in "reality". It's pretty good at combat in the show though. Until I get it on the table, I'm not sure whether or not it's balanced for the points. I'm real happy we're getting it for the game though.

I imagine the shuttle to be compared to a X-wing; it's Dial will be about as good or somewhat inferior, but generally it is less durable. If my understanding is correct, detaching the shuttle would also result in the Ghost losing it's rear arc.

Ezar is incredible value for points with push the limit; he can hit like a truck for a ship costing only 23 points with the mod. I imagine part of the issue would be is that the shuttles dial mightn't have much in the way of green or manoeuvrability and can only cancel two damage results at max within ranges 1-2. Thus turrets and large, powerful attacks would still crush the shuttle quite quickly. Though it's competitive pricing is fairly good as joisting fighters have always struggled with making value vs many other ships.

Yeah, I mean, I have no doubt FFG will give us a ship balanced for its point cost, it's just...

It's definitely a Mary Sue in the show, unquestionably,

Unquestionably! Unless you use the actual definition of what a Mary Sue is.