While, overall, I'm really digging the new stuff we are getting from 'Rebels' in this game...

I dunno, I sort of am feeling the Phantom is a thematic miss. It's just got too much firepower for what amounts to a shuttle. I mean, for real, how do you slap enough guns on the thing to have it as combat-efffective as an X-Wing?!

The rest of its stats seem more-or-less okay, but...am I missing something on the firepower? Have we seen anything in the show that I've just forgotten about, that would point to it fielding as much firepower as an X-Wing/E-Wing/TIE Interceptor?

If you have been watching this season, it's quite clear that the Phantom outguns smaller ships. It's not a shuttle -- it's more along the lines of an upsized, upgunned YT-1300.

Seems pretty accurate. There's a lot of one-shotting of the ties. Plus just look at the size of the guns on it.

it's another mary sue. nothing special here.
add plot armour for the taste

If you have been watching this season, it's quite clear that the Phantom outguns smaller ships. It's not a shuttle -- it's more along the lines of an upsized, upgunned YT-1300.

I'm pretty sure you're thinking of the Ghost, buddy.

The Phantom was the small attack shuttle.

Anyways, yeah i really feel like the Phantom is gonna be way, way too good. Ezra alone looks amazing. PTL on Ezra for a stress every turn without a need to save a focus for defense? Oh my god, yes.

If you have been watching this season, it's quite clear that the Phantom outguns smaller ships. It's not a shuttle -- it's more along the lines of an upsized, upgunned YT-1300.

I'm pretty sure you're thinking of the Ghost, buddy.

The Phantom was the small attack shuttle.

Anyways, yeah i really feel like the Phantom is gonna be way, way too good. Ezra alone looks amazing. PTL on Ezra for a stress every turn without a need to save a focus for defense? Oh my god, yes.

Brain fart . D'oh!

Didn't Chopper take down a Gozanti?

Chopper could take down an entire fleet, he's their secret weapon. 'They' of course is the Empire, the Machine Empire. How else do you explain his bloodlust?

How much bigger is the attack shuttle compared to an A-wing? It's got to have a lot of extra juice in those blasters.

Chopper could take down an entire fleet, he's their secret weapon. 'They' of course is the Empire, the Machine Empire. How else do you explain his bloodlust?

Oh man, you just made me want to see IG-88 join forces with Ch0pper.

Chopper could take down an entire fleet, he's their secret weapon. 'They' of course is the Empire, the Machine Empire. How else do you explain his bloodlust?

Oh man, you just made me want to see IG-88 join forces with Ch0pper.

4-LOM and the Chopper. Evenings on ABC.

Epic list: Chopper+ IG88 (maybe two)+ LEEBO + 4LOM +Guri for the binary revolution lolz?

How much bigger is the attack shuttle compared to an A-wing? It's got to have a lot of extra juice in those blasters.

I'd actually say the Phantom is quite a bit smaller than an A-Wing.

In the 'Wings of the Master' episode, you could see it sitting nearby, as well as being docked to, a B-Wing...

(Not sure I've seen any shots of it literally right next to an A-Wing in a way you could tell their size, but I'll see if I can dig one up...)

How much bigger is the attack shuttle compared to an A-wing? It's got to have a lot of extra juice in those blasters.

About 20% longer. I honestly thing in fighters in Star Wars what kind of reactor matters much more then size in power output. Also if the cannon A-Wing Wookieepedia page is correct the A-Wing would have more firepower then Phantom. Phantom has a dual laser cannon and a single laser cannon turret. The A-Wing has two laser cannons and two missile launchers. And one shotting TIE Fighters doesn't take munch punch IMO.

well, I don't see it, and it really annoys me;

first: it's a shuttle, not a fighter. still has the same 3red as an xwing, interceptor, a decimator or a lambda with the effing array of guns.

second: all packed up into a tiny model the size of an awing (I assume), and yet still carrying a turret and a crew..

grmpf.

I don't mind FFG including "rebels" in xwing. heck, once the ghost gets "dirtied up" it is a nice model, I think.

that shuttle: I can't blame them for the model - that is someone else's fault (an ewing looks almost nice against it.. but okay: taste).

what I can blame them for is the +1 ON EVAAAARYT'ING..

seriously, I feel offended by everything that this "shuttle package" stands for.

I have no fear that it'll break the game - it just feels so.. "childish/ JAR JAR" with "everything is better because of plot".

that's something xwing didn't have before IMO, and now.. *sigh* :-/

oh well.. OTOH it surely will feel extra-nice to wipe that thing of the table..

The ships have as much or as little effectiveness as the plot demands. This isn't Galactica, and the only thing that's consistent across all movies and cartoons is their scale.

seriously, I feel offended by everything that this "shuttle package" stands for.

I have no fear that it'll break the game - it just feels so.. "childish/ JAR JAR" with "everything is better because of plot".

that's something xwing didn't have before IMO, and now.. *sigh* :-/

oh well.. OTOH it surely will feel extra-nice to wipe that thing of the table..

Yeah, I mean, I have no doubt FFG will give us a ship balanced for its point cost, it's just...

It's definitely a Mary Sue in the show, unquestionably, and FFG is obviously stuck with that. Nothing to be done about its appearance, or that it CAN operate effectively as a fighter despite being basically completely hollow of the systems or engines that would enable that. (Seriously, what is WITH show producers and that concept? I mean, if you actually could take something like the Phantom and use it like an effective fighter, why are the ACTUAL fighters in the setting so much bigger? What is all that extra equipment in them, that is just 'empty space' here, doing?)

But even given all of that...I don't think I recall any scenes that really justified that primary attack of '3'. It's a Mary Sue, for sure, but even so...I think '3' is a bit much. A 2-2-2-2 statline would still be pretty ridiculously powerful for something that is A SHUTTLE, not a dedicated fighter fully stuffed with equipment tasked with Doing Fighter Things.

It's got more firepower because Disney said so.

The ships have as much or as little effectiveness as the plot demands. This isn't Galactica, and the only thing that's consistent across all movies and cartoons is their scale.

the thing is: you talk about the movies, and it's okay there (heroes gotta have plot armor etc);

..but I'm talking about the miniatures-game.

"xwing, the game" didn't have that. luke has a very cool and useful rule, but still dies on a very regular basis. because rules =|= fluff/movies. and that is great about this game.

and now there's this tiny little .. thing that breaks that. size of a beetle, shoots like a decimator. size of said beetle again, but has room enough for crew. and a hyperdrive. and a turret.

it's just not -believable- but on a very "toy-etic" level.

heck, I miss the dragon I can clam on skeletors back so he can better attack-though-in-the-end-always-lose-to he-man. ...

the game deserved better, IMO.

and sorry for the rant.. I don't want to spoil the fun for everybody who likes it the way it is.

I think there is too much thought being put into this. Balance>Fluff every time, so they had to make the X-Wing to fit the game (Which we agree the T-65's are under powered for their points anyways.) and they had to make the Phantom fit the game and with no target lock it makes it less likely to hit but with Ezra it is more defensive.

Also between Hara's upgrades and Sabine's expertise on weapons arrays I am sure that thing packs a stronger punch than a standard shuttle.

Just cos Disney/Lucas says it is a "Freighter" or a "Shuttle" doesn't mean it has the combat capabilites of one. This is a CEC machine - which has built other "Light Freighters" which have been modded stupidly in other capabilities. The Falcon for example looks like a hunk of junk but "...she's the fastest ship in the fleet!". Yes, she's faster than an A-Wing in sub-light speed, its even shown in the movie.

The Ghost on the other hand is modelled after the B-29 Superfortress (look at the front of it) and the Phantom on the F-LER and YT-XC toys. Just like the old heavy bombers of WWII the Ghost certainly can chew through enemy fighters.

It's an ATTACK shuttle, so it's got red dice for attacking! And if you count the turret gun on top it's got the three guns that the E-wing uses to justify its firepower. If you don't like that then look at the Kiraxe(sp) with its two guns and three red dice.

It's got 4 hp, dice like an x-wing, and it's got a turret. Sounds like its very similar to the Y-wing with double the green dice and half the hp, plus a little bump in attack. I'm sure it will have a similar dial to the Y-wing as well, little green with lots of red for Ezra to stress himself over.

And since when did this thing become the attack shuttle?! The Nu class shuttle wasn't good enough? Or...is this a variant of the Nu class? Hmmmm....

Balance>Fluff every time

Statement is irrelevant as always in a game that uses points.

Anything can be balanced if you charge the right amount of points for it.

Represent the fluff, then figure out what you need to charge for it.

I dunno, I sort of am feeling the Phantom is a thematic miss. It's just got too much firepower for what amounts to a shuttle.

???

It is a custom job fine tuned with time.

The A-wing is built to spec.