I could see running something like this:
MC-80 Command
Home One
Ackbar
Leading Shots
Projection Experts
MC-80 Command
Defiance
Leading Shots
Projection Experts
That's 283 points. While you won't get a ton of shots, what you do get will be consistently good. For the other 117 points, you could go squadron heavy, with plenty of ability to command them or mix in some TRC CR-90s for the firepower and activations.
On the assumption that I was not happy flying two, I'm going to give three a go and see if that works better or if one truly is a charm for MC80s (got one more coming for Christmas). Not much in the way of options for this list so:
Command cruiser, home one, xi7 (119 points)
Command cruiser, defiance, xi7 (117 points )
Command cruiser, Garm ( 131 points)
X3 Awings (33 points)
That's 400 points, can't think of a more effective way to run 3 MC80s any thoughts........
I can, because those almost naked MC80s are not nearly as effective or dangerous as two geared up MC80s.
Edited by HEROHi Hero, the point is what's the best I can do to optimise three MC80s.....yes I know the obvious answer is only run two or in my view one.... But the mountain is there so I'm going to climb it ( well play 3 MC80s on the table anyway)
So do I keep the above list or loose the Awings to optimise the MC80s and what's the best buys for those 33 points if I loss the Awings.....
On the assumption that I was not happy flying two, I'm going to give three a go and see if that works better or if one truly is a charm for MC80s (got one more coming for Christmas). Not much in the way of options for this list so:
Command cruiser, home one, xi7 (119 points)
Command cruiser, defiance, xi7 (117 points )
Command cruiser, Garm ( 131 points)
X3 Awings (33 points)
That's 400 points, can't think of a more effective way to run 3 MC80s any thoughts........
I can, because those almost naked MC80s are not nearly as effective or dangerous as two geared up MC80s.
I think Jondavies' point was to see if he could build an effective triple-MC-80 build, to see if he likes playing with three better than playing with two.
For a pure efficiency build, I think Garm is probably the play here. I could see Dodonna being useful mid-to-late game (when you're throwing 6+ dice out there, plus Home One/Defiance, you're probably going to get crit effects, right?), but having nine tokens from the outset is nice. If you're committed to a conga line deployment, I wonder if Slaved Turrets might be useful instead of Xi7s, for an extra red die. That would lock you into only attacking once per turn, but if you're planning to do that 9x out of 10 anyway, an extra red die will probably contribute more raw damage (though I don't know that for sure).
In the alternative, dropping all Xi7s and replacing them with three Leading Shots would allow you to reroll the inevitable whiff roll, or fish for higher damage totals if you're feeling lucky.
I would keep the A-wings myself--some sort of fighter screen is going to be better than none at all in virtually every case, I'd think, especially with speed 2 ships.
Seems like a solid list, though--definitely the most balanced triple list I've seen in a while. Keep up the lab experiments and tell us how it goes!
Edited by RythbrytThen I think the extra reds from Ackbar will be well worth it over anyone else. And ecms too.
Thoughts on this?
REBEL FLEET (397 points)
1 • MC80 Assault Cruiser - Leading Shots - Enhanced Armament - Defiance (133)
2 • MC80 Command Cruiser - Admiral Ackbar - Raymus Antilles - Projection Experts - Redundant Shields - Leading Shots - XX-9 Turbolasers - Home One (181)
3 • A-wing Squadron (11)
4 • A-wing Squadron (11)
5 • A-wing Squadron (11)
6 • A-wing Squadron (11)
7 • Jan Ors Moldy Crow (19)
8 • Luke Skywalker X-wing Squadron (20)
This gives the first MC80 11 dice to toss around if used correctly.
The second one will help with tokens and taking shots at enemy fighters/ships.
Because of Jan if an enemy ship gets to close you can focus on it over squadrons and move your fighters to hit a ship if desired.
Edited by ValmoonI need to build a dual MC80 setup. I'd go for "largest pain in the ass to kill" setup. I'll advise once I build it. Haha
I'm not sure Engine techs is an auto-include either. For that support slot I'd either grab Nav teams for the tighter turn or Engineering teams to inflate the rating to 5, and make the most of spamming engineering to have a forever ship that lasts unless it has the attention of the entire team.
No, the high-turning ships I'd need are the two assault frigates in a typical Ackbar setup. I'd need them to do the maneuvering while the MC80 is the bait.
I'm the kind of player who likes playing slower-moving defensive lists of absurd firepower, so not moving more than speed 2 is no problem for me. My ISD doesn't often go above speed 2 anyway... only time it did was to outrace a Corvette that slowed down behind me to leave it in the dust.
I have the feeling that a two MC80 list will feel as vulnerable as other two-ship builds are. Once one goes down it'll be a struggle to recouperate your losses. I have more faith in Star Destroyers doing this, mostly because I've seen Imperials eat small ships alive (by one-shotting a pair of corvettes with a gunnery team). I'd like to experiment with this, but not without a couple of other small ships to initiative sink and not leave me so stranded if I lose one of my cruisers. Not sure how I'd look on points however.
Not sure where this durable notion of MC80s come from. 8 hull goes by quickly if the other player knows what he's doing and takes the right upgrades on ships that matter. If you're playing non-competitive then sure, the MC80 might seem like it'll stay around forever because of lack of XI7s or Intel Officers so you have free reign with brace and redirects. That's not always a luxury though.
I do agree with the notion that 2-ship lists of this variant is risky though, this is why I propose not taking 2 ships, but 3. The third being there just for activation sakes and if it gets some damage through, great. If not, whatever.
Edited by HEROI'm not saying it's a good list. Or even tournament viable. But I'm roughly thinking a 3 ship set anchored with a dual Command Cruiser set with Engineering Teams and Redundant Shields. And a lot of engineering commands.
I dunno, I'm imagining (MC80 + Redundant shields + ECMs + Engineering Teams) * constant engineering spamming + Ackbar to see what that does. As with these kinds of things, use engineering to move shields before repairing them, then just keep fixing the ship every time your opponent is not firing at it. Then it throws out damage while it's repairing and just out-lasts its opponent.
MC80s have more shields than ISDs do, and have them to call upon when defending and moving shields. The engineering team (with Raymus) can bring their repair value up to eight. ISDs with similar token support only go up to six. So in a repair race, the MC80 is going to win, since not only can it repair more shields but it can move more of them.
Imperials either have to bypass the shields with special crits or reliably do more than four points of damage with each activation to punish a defensive MC80. ISDs can do this, but for GSDs to do this they need to attack in pairs, or be someplace they aren't going to get hammered. Raiders I think either need to pick ACMs for splash damage or APTs to bypass shields on the attack and hope for a shield-draining (or similarly terrible) critical.
It's a tough nut to crack. I'm still hoping that the Empire has some offensive combo to break it open, but this is an example of how the MC80s can compete with otherwise fearsome ISDs.
Edited by NorsehoundMy opinion- one MC80 is plenty. Add Ackbar, and you can make a lot of ships more fearsome. Throw Slaved Turrets on a Neb-B under Ackbar, and even it throws 4 red out the side or the front (not that you want to show the Neb's flank to an enemy, but it happens...) As we learned in Wave 1, and should still practice, the Rebels usually want to stay at long range while flanking the Empire. Ackbar's handout of red dice just reinforces this. As such, I'm not convinced thevRebels need to add extra tanks. One MC80 to anchor the fleet should be good. More just make it harder to try to out maneuver Imperial fleets. Remember, if there are multiple MC80s, that leaves less room for faster and more agile ships, and therefore limits the penalties the Empire faces when trying to focus fire on the MC80.
Of course, in mirror matches, all bets are off, I suppose.
(Yes, I know the Empire has decent maneuvering on the Gladiator and pretty good on the Raider, but while I have yet to see a Raider in battle, I know Gladiators explode quickly if they overextend.)
I dunno, I'm imagining (MC80 + Redundant shields + ECMs + Engineering Teams) * constant engineering spamming + Ackbar to see what that does. As with these kinds of things, use engineering to move shields before repairing them, then just keep fixing the ship every time your opponent is not firing at it. Then it throws out damage while it's repairing and just out-lasts its opponent.
MC80s have more shields than ISDs do, and have them to call upon when defending and moving shields. The engineering team (with Raymus) can bring their repair value up to eight. ISDs with similar token support only go up to six. So in a repair race, the MC80 is going to win, since not only can it repair more shields but it can move more of them.
Imperials either have to bypass the shields with special crits or reliably do more than four points of damage with each activation to punish a defensive MC80. ISDs can do this, but for GSDs to do this they need to attack in pairs, or be someplace they aren't going to get hammered. Raiders I think either need to pick ACMs for splash damage or APTs to bypass shields on the attack and hope for a shield-draining (or similarly terrible) critical.
It's a tough nut to crack. I'm still hoping that the Empire has some offensive combo to break it open, but this is an example of how the MC80s can compete with otherwise fearsome ISDs.
Does your meta play with XI7s at all? All this talk of shields and moving shields does not concern me at all..
I dunno, I'm imagining (MC80 + Redundant shields + ECMs + Engineering Teams) * constant engineering spamming + Ackbar to see what that does. As with these kinds of things, use engineering to move shields before repairing them, then just keep fixing the ship every time your opponent is not firing at it. Then it throws out damage while it's repairing and just out-lasts its opponent.
MC80s have more shields than ISDs do, and have them to call upon when defending and moving shields. The engineering team (with Raymus) can bring their repair value up to eight. ISDs with similar token support only go up to six. So in a repair race, the MC80 is going to win, since not only can it repair more shields but it can move more of them.
Imperials either have to bypass the shields with special crits or reliably do more than four points of damage with each activation to punish a defensive MC80. ISDs can do this, but for GSDs to do this they need to attack in pairs, or be someplace they aren't going to get hammered. Raiders I think either need to pick ACMs for splash damage or APTs to bypass shields on the attack and hope for a shield-draining (or similarly terrible) critical.
It's a tough nut to crack. I'm still hoping that the Empire has some offensive combo to break it open, but this is an example of how the MC80s can compete with otherwise fearsome ISDs.
Does your meta play with XI7s at all? All this talk of shields and moving shields does not concern me at all..
XI7s are around, but not too common around here. Two ISD's with 'em really put the hurt on my AF & MC80. Didn't spam nearly as much engineering as I should - moving shields is the next best thing.
I recall that I've used them but they don't matter for my enemies...
Also, when I mean shield moving I mean spending an engineering command to do it. With 8 you can move and recover flanking shields on the side you were attacked.
Thoughts on this?
REBEL FLEET (397 points)
1 • MC80 Assault Cruiser - Leading Shots - Enhanced Armament - Defiance (133)
2 • MC80 Command Cruiser - Admiral Ackbar - Raymus Antilles - Projection Experts - Redundant Shields - Leading Shots - XX-9 Turbolasers - Home One (181)
3 • A-wing Squadron (11)
4 • A-wing Squadron (11)
5 • A-wing Squadron (11)
6 • A-wing Squadron (11)
7 • Jan Ors Moldy Crow (19)
8 • Luke Skywalker X-wing Squadron (20)Fab's flat generator 11* broadside mc80
This gives the first MC80 11 dice to toss around if used correctly.
The second one will help with tokens and taking shots at enemy fighters/ships.
Because of Jan if an enemy ship gets to close you can focus on it over squadrons and move your fighters to hit a ship if desired.
You have some inefficiency build into this list ( outside of it being double MC80):
Defiance, is best with lots of ship activations, gives you more chance of setting up on the ships you want. Defiance and Ackbar are not efficient, as defiance wants lots of chances to shoot twice and in most rounds you end up not using both defiance shots or not using Ackbar.
Enhanced armaments, without gunnery team Most of the time you will only be getting one shot with this.
Ackbar is more efficient the more ships you have.
XX-9 and Luke are more efficient with doddona
Redundant shields is not an efficient card (for ships with good engineering) and stops you taking ECM for your home one flag ship ( the ship everyone would like to kill)
Projection experts is a good card but not on your highest value ship which is also you oppositions prime target.
Two obvious activations (defiance by its nature activating second) and two slow ships means you are very obvious.... You oppo will dance around you.
If you want to keep a two MC80 acbar list think about this as a framework
Mc80, command Xi7,ECM, engine techs
Mc80 command,xi7,ECM, engine techs, home one.
CR90a, JL, projection experts, Ackbar.
Add 49 points of fighter to flavour......
It's not a competitive list (I'm not sure two MC80s ever will be)but would seem to be efficient and have a bit more speed and activations allowing some freedom (and fun) of play.
Kinda off topic question. But do you think they will make the MC 80 Winged version?
You mean this?
I kinda hope they do (I think it looks far cooler than most Mon Cal hulls), but I can't quite see what purpose it'd serve unless they get creative with its cards to give it some interesting options to bring to the table.
Change the arcs and attack dice distribution a bit and you have a very different ship.
I could certainly see it flying more "Imperial" with heavy forward firepower to differentiate it from Home One.
I'm warming up to that notion.
FWIW, this is what Shipyards came up with.
Basically an ISD/VSD thing. Meh. Not that interesting.
Lol. What about a sideways base. =P
--
I feel like at 400 pts, you cant really have a good build with 2 large ships. Either MC80s or ISDs.
Basically an ISD/VSD thing. Meh. Not that interesting.
Indeed. The devil is in the details, though, so we at least made the upgrade bar unique (Engineering Team and Projection Experts!) and tried for some interesting titles.
Edited by DiabloAzulBasically an ISD/VSD thing. Meh. Not that interesting.
Lol. What about a sideways base. =P
--
I feel like at 400 pts, you cant really have a good build with 2 large ships. Either MC80s or ISDs.
I kinda agree with this. I think a dual ISD feels more viable, but still requires a lot of skill and luck to execute successfully.
I agree, you sacrifice to much flexibility for those two large base ships, not yet fully conviced around the ISD, but one MC80 is defiantly optimal. Although I will still play with three just for the crack..........
Thoughts on this?
REBEL FLEET (397 points)
1 • MC80 Assault Cruiser - Leading Shots - Enhanced Armament - Defiance (133)
2 • MC80 Command Cruiser - Admiral Ackbar - Raymus Antilles - Projection Experts - Redundant Shields - Leading Shots - XX-9 Turbolasers - Home One (181)
3 • A-wing Squadron (11)
4 • A-wing Squadron (11)
5 • A-wing Squadron (11)
6 • A-wing Squadron (11)
7 • Jan Ors Moldy Crow (19)
8 • Luke Skywalker X-wing Squadron (20)Fab's flat generator 11* broadside mc80
This gives the first MC80 11 dice to toss around if used correctly.
The second one will help with tokens and taking shots at enemy fighters/ships.
Because of Jan if an enemy ship gets to close you can focus on it over squadrons and move your fighters to hit a ship if desired.
You have some inefficiency build into this list ( outside of it being double MC80):
Defiance, is best with lots of ship activations, gives you more chance of setting up on the ships you want. Defiance and Ackbar are not efficient, as defiance wants lots of chances to shoot twice and in most rounds you end up not using both defiance shots or not using Ackbar.
Enhanced armaments, without gunnery team Most of the time you will only be getting one shot with this.
Ackbar is more efficient the more ships you have.
XX-9 and Luke are more efficient with doddona
Redundant shields is not an efficient card (for ships with good engineering) and stops you taking ECM for your home one flag ship ( the ship everyone would like to kill)
Projection experts is a good card but not on your highest value ship which is also you oppositions prime target.
Two obvious activations (defiance by its nature activating second) and two slow ships means you are very obvious.... You oppo will dance around you.
If you want to keep a two MC80 acbar list think about this as a framework
Mc80, command Xi7,ECM, engine techs
Mc80 command,xi7,ECM, engine techs, home one.
CR90a, JL, projection experts, Ackbar.
Add 49 points of fighter to flavour......
It's not a competitive list (I'm not sure two MC80s ever will be)but would seem to be efficient and have a bit more speed and activations allowing some freedom (and fun) of play.
Thanks for this information. I can use that to make some good changes. I do think I will try this list just once in friendly play to see what happens. I agree more ships would be better. (My friends like doing 600 points)
What I posted is a major part of the shell. Using a 600 point build.
I have actually had quite a bit of success with two MC80's. They are tanky, and give off some firepower that most opponents ships cannot withstand for l long when including ISD's. The list I have been toying with for some pretty good succes is the following:
Garm Bel Iblis
MC80 command
XI-7
ECM's
Boosted Coms
MC80 command
XI-7
ECM's
Boosted Coms
6 A-wings
4 B-wings
393 pts
I ran 2 MC80's at a tournament this weekend (attendance 10) in Sundsvall, Sweden, and made second place.
It was supposed to be a full wave 2 tournament, but since the ships didn't arrive we only had whatever we conquered from Sullust to use. And I lack a lot of the expansions, so I had to to with whatever I had or could borrow. (I, on my hand, lent out an ISD and a bunch of upgrades).
This was my first time fielding a rebel list ever - including quite a few X-wing and Armada tournaments, so it felt a bit odd... :-)
I did some logical errors in buildning this list which I realized after I had already sent it in, but here it is:
SHIP: MC80 Command Cruiser 106
Engine Techs 8
Electronic Countermeasures 7
Home One 7
TOTAL POINTS: 128
SHIP: MC80 Command Cruiser 106
Admiral Ackbar 38
Engine Techs 8
Electronic Countermeasures 7
TOTAL POINTS: 159
SHIP: CR90 Corvette B 39
Leia Organa 3
Jaina's Light 2
TOTAL POINTS: 44
SQUADRONS
X-wing Squadron 13
X-wing Squadron 13
Y-wing Squadron 10
Y-wing Squadron 10
A-wing Squadron 11
A-wing Squadron 11
TOTAL POINTS: 68
TOTAL FLEET POINTS: 399
Hadn't had the time to practise this list at all, nor figuring out a strategy, so I had to learn as i played the tournament, which is obviously not the greatest way to go... But I had Leia there to compensate for any bad planning.
First game against Mon Mothma on Paragon with Salvation, 2 x CR90 and 8 squads in Precision Strike I won 10 - 0.
Second game against Screed on VSD + Demolisher + Gladiator + Raider + Rhymerball I managed to bump myself and ended up a sitting duck for his bombers so even if I killed more ship points than him he had tons of victory tokens (precision strike again).
4 - 6
Third game against Dodonna on Salvation + Yavaris + MC30 + 2 x CR90 + 6 squads I won by managing to stay out of enemy arcs. And well, destroying all his ships... Precision Strike (again!) 10 - 0
My impressive 1 point initiative bid payed off - two of my opponents had maxed out at 400 p and the third had 399 and I won the toss. :-) So I always was first player, which was great considering the fire power and speed of my ships.
If I'd run a similar list and would have free access to ships, squads and upgrades I would do some changes like Tantive and projection experts instead of Jaina's Light and mainly A-wings and maybe X17 + Intel on Home One.
I am gratefull for Hero's great articles in his blog, which helped me in my fleet building. Thanks!
If I hadn't made the mistake of bumping, which obviously was due to my inexperience with this list, I think I would have won the tournament.
Edited by oxymandiasI ran 2 MC80's at a tournament this weekend (attendance 10) in Sundsvall, Sweden, and made second place.
It was supposed to be a full wave 2 tournament, but since the ships didn't arrive we only had whatever we conquered from Sullust to use. And I lack a lot of the expansions, so I had to to with whatever I had or could borrow. (I, on my hand, lent out an ISD and a bunch of upgrades).
This was my first time fielding a rebel list ever - including quite a few X-wing and Armada tournaments, so it felt a bit odd... :-)
I did some logical errors in buildning this list which I realized after I had already sent it in, but here it is:
SHIP: MC80 Command Cruiser 106
Engine Techs 8
Electronic Countermeasures 7
Home One 7
TOTAL POINTS: 128
SHIP: MC80 Command Cruiser 106
Admiral Ackbar 38
Engine Techs 8
Electronic Countermeasures 7
TOTAL POINTS: 159
SHIP: CR90 Corvette B 39
Leia Organa 3
Jaina's Light 2
TOTAL POINTS: 44
SQUADRONS
X-wing Squadron 13
X-wing Squadron 13
Y-wing Squadron 10
Y-wing Squadron 10
A-wing Squadron 11
A-wing Squadron 11
TOTAL POINTS: 68
TOTAL FLEET POINTS: 399
Hadn't had the time to practise this list at all, nor figuring out a strategy, so I had to learn as i played the tournament, which is obviously not the greatest way to go... But I had Leia there to compensate for any bad planning.
First game against Mon Mothma on Paragon with Salvation, 2 x CR90 and 8 squads in Precision Strike I won 10 - 0.
Second game against Screed on VSD + Demolisher + Gladiator + Raider + Rhymerball I managed to bump myself and ended up a sitting duck for his bombers so even if I killed more ship points than him he had tons of victory tokens (precision strike again).
4 - 6
Third game against Dodonna on Salvation + Yavaris + MC30 + 2 x CR90 + 6 squads I won by managing to stay out of enemy arcs. And well, destroying all his ships... Precision Strike (again!) 10 - 0
My impressive 1 point initiative bid payed off - two of my opponents had maxed out at 400 p and the third had 399 and I won the toss. :-) So I always was first player, which was great considering the fire power and speed of my ships.
If I'd run a similar list and would have free access to ships, squads and upgrades I would do some changes like Tantive and projection experts instead of Jaina's Light and mainly A-wings and maybe X17 + Intel on Home One.
I am gratefull for Hero's great articles in his blog, which helped me in my fleet building. Thanks!
If I hadn't made the mistake of bumping, which obviously was due to my inexperience with this list, I think I would have won the tournament.
Thanks man! Next time you'll take it all.
I bet even some XI7s and Intels would have gone a long way over some of the X-Wings.
