I,ve played an Acbar list with two MC80s an AFB and a mixed bag of 2 y wings, an x wing and a HWK. I was player one and it was hyperspace assault.

He had two Glads, a Vic2 and a full fighter/Rymer ball.

Now although I won (Glads seem to evaporate when played against acbar MC80s) I was not happy with this dual MC80 list. Those big slow boys just seem to block arcs and movement, making all you activations very obvious and easy to predict. It's also a lot of points for two ships with no singnificant increase in fire power over a AFB.

What do others think is two MC80s in a list one two many....

I don't think any MC80 is worth it under Akbar unless it's Home One

Gunnery Teams are simply too powerful, and AFmk2s are very efficient (the MC80 is not)

although, I can imagine Home One buffing Defiance to the point of lunacy

anyway, I see no real point to the MC80 as a stock ship, but its titles are revolutionary (Home One, Independence if you like B-wings) or just stupid good value (Defiance). This turns it into a "one of" deal, and you pick the title best suited to your fleet.

Yeah I have a hard time recommending two of them. I think one is easily worth adding to your collection but two is a tough sell. That one, however, can fill a variety of roles largely depending on what title you give it.

I don't think any MC80 is worth it under Akbar unless it's Home One

Gunnery Teams are simply too powerful, and AFmk2s are very efficient (the MC80 is not)

although, I can imagine Home One buffing Defiance to the point of lunacy

anyway, I see no real point to the MC80 as a stock ship, but its titles are revolutionary (Home One, Independence if you like B-wings) or just stupid good value (Defiance). This turns it into a "one of" deal, and you pick the title best suited to your fleet.

I agree with this entirely.

I have tried with double MC80s and you're just pigeon-holding yourself into a more expensive ship for significantly less value. The MKII has almost the same amount of red dice, can be a receipt of Home One's bonus and has Gunnery Teams to throw it out twice. It's 100% the better buy over the MC80. The +30 extra points is not worth a few hull points and less noticible shields.

More MC80s also warrants more upgrades, and the point squeeze is just not good enough to warrant less ships and activations overall.

Kinda off topic question. But do you think they will make the MC 80 Winged version?

MC80s can be surprisingly fast and maneuverable with engine techs - more so than an AF. The Nav chart essentially becomes 1-1-1 plus an extra click anywhere you want, if you Nav command. And 1-1-1 isn't bad with just a token.

A two MC plus fighter build might be quite potent - but will have to test more. I'm not willing to put the idea to rest quite yet though.

Home One + Defiance + CR90 + squads. Have to try that now.

Home One + Defiance + CR90 + squads. Have to try that now.

I already have one made you can try:

Home One + Defiance + CR90 + squads. Have to try that now.

I already have one made you can try:

Ackbar

MC80 Home One

Intel Officer

Engine TEchs

ECM

XI7

Leading Shots

MC80 Defiance

Raymus Antilles

Engine Techs

ECM

XI7

Leading Shots

CR90A

Jaina's Light

2x A-Wings

394 points

Intel/XI7s for max damage on the Home One, passes the accuracy to the MC80 Defiance, who with Raymus gets the maximum bonus from his CF (Defiance adds black, Raymus adds another, +re-roll from token).

HUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZAH

I kind of want to try this with Projection Experts instead of Engine Techs. Better chance to survive a tandem Ackbar Slash if they can support each other defensively as well as offensively... Hmm...

Only Two A-Wings.

Your Meta May Vary...

Kinda off topic question. But do you think they will make the MC 80 Winged version?

You mean this?

I kinda hope they do (I think it looks far cooler than most Mon Cal hulls), but I can't quite see what purpose it'd serve unless they get creative with its cards to give it some interesting options to bring to the table.

Home One + Defiance + CR90 + squads. Have to try that now.

I already have one made you can try:

Ackbar

MC80 Home One

Intel Officer

Engine TEchs

ECM

XI7

Leading Shots

MC80 Defiance

Raymus Antilles

Engine Techs

ECM

XI7

Leading Shots

CR90A

Jaina's Light

2x A-Wings

394 points

Intel/XI7s for max damage on the Home One, passes the accuracy to the MC80 Defiance, who with Raymus gets the maximum bonus from his CF (Defiance adds black, Raymus adds another, +re-roll from token).

HUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZAH

I kind of want to try this with Projection Experts instead of Engine Techs. Better chance to survive a tandem Ackbar Slash if they can support each other defensively as well as offensively... Hmm...

No my friend, never take Engine Techs off your MC80s. #1 upgrade by far, even more so than ECM.

My reasoning as follows:

http://lkhero.blogspot.com/2015/12/armada-buy-engine-techs-on-mc80.html

Kinda off topic question. But do you think they will make the MC 80 Winged version?

You mean this?

I kinda hope they do (I think it looks far cooler than most Mon Cal hulls), but I can't quite see what purpose it'd serve unless they get creative with its cards to give it some interesting options to bring to the table.

Change the arcs and attack dice distribution a bit and you have a very different ship.

Only Two A-Wings.

Your Meta May Vary...

Oh, trust me. It's fighter light, but you always drop the CR90 for just a flock of wings.

Kinda off topic question. But do you think they will make the MC 80 Winged version?

You mean this?

I kinda hope they do (I think it looks far cooler than most Mon Cal hulls), but I can't quite see what purpose it'd serve unless they get creative with its cards to give it some interesting options to bring to the table.

Change the arcs and attack dice distribution a bit and you have a very different ship.

I could certainly see it flying more "Imperial" with heavy forward firepower to differentiate it from Home One.

I'm warming up to that notion.

Home One + Defiance + CR90 + squads. Have to try that now.

I already have one made you can try:

Ackbar

MC80 Home One

Intel Officer

Engine TEchs

ECM

XI7

Leading Shots

MC80 Defiance

Raymus Antilles

Engine Techs

ECM

XI7

Leading Shots

CR90A

Jaina's Light

2x A-Wings

394 points

Intel/XI7s for max damage on the Home One, passes the accuracy to the MC80 Defiance, who with Raymus gets the maximum bonus from his CF (Defiance adds black, Raymus adds another, +re-roll from token).

HUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZAH

I kind of want to try this with Projection Experts instead of Engine Techs. Better chance to survive a tandem Ackbar Slash if they can support each other defensively as well as offensively... Hmm...

No my friend, never take Engine Techs off your MC80s. #1 upgrade by far, even more so than ECM.

My reasoning as follows:

http://lkhero.blogspot.com/2015/12/armada-buy-engine-techs-on-mc80.html

Well-written article, appreciate all the content you're contributing to the community. That said, I disagree with your conclusions, because I'm not confident your position is as well-founded as you think.

So your reasoning is that you're very maneuverable if you take it, which allows you to be where you want to be. That's great, and definitely valuable, but doesn't make the upgrade any more an auto-include on this ship than on any other. At that point you're talking about spamming nav, which detracts from everything else you could be doing with it. You're talking a lot about the turn ticks it gives you, without due consideration to the fact that spamming nav normally gives you one tick less than that 90° turn anyway. You're getting a 25% turn radius decrease, which is good, but nothing earth-shattering.

I don't know, I'm just not sold on this being the one enabling upgrade for the MC80, but you obviously are, so by all means use it.

Also, as an aside:

You don't always have to techs, you only use it on turns it will be most value; which falls in that crucial turn 1-2 phase. Maybe you want a slower approach, bank the token. Next turn Nav for position, Engineering for the third and 4th, while spending token on third for extra movement.

It's not just tick that's worth it, it's the distance that you go as well. Those are the differences between getting arc shots or dodging arc shots, or getting blasted back by two ships from their best arcs. Maneuverability in this game is defined by speed and yaw. Being at psuedo speed-3 with the yaw is game-changing compared to speed-2 with the yaw.

Breaking news:

Now I've not had a chance to play them (being a rebel player) but I'm wondering if ISDs work better than MC80s as pairs in a fleet ? It would seem to me the way you move them means they would have less chance of obscuring each other or getting in the way. They also come with the all important gunnery team,

On the question of engine techs, I have to go with hero, I think limiting yourself to speed two when you can get up to speed 3 for a 7.5ish % upgrade in cost is the wat forward for these boys. It's not just about what the ship can do it's about how it interacts with (or not interats with)the rest of the fleet.

If I,m taking on imps I,ve always tried to manipulate the inconsistency between the VSD and Glad speed and Manoeuvrability. I now see that same weakness in my fleet when I deploy a big based slow boy.....

Now I've not had a chance to play them (being a rebel player) but I'm wondering if ISDs work better than MC80s as pairs in a fleet ? It would seem to me the way you move them means they would have less chance of obscuring each other or getting in the way. They also come with the all important gunnery team,

On the question of engine techs, I have to go with hero, I think limiting yourself to speed two when you can get up to speed 3 for a 7.5ish % upgrade in cost is the wat forward for these boys. It's not just about what the ship can do it's about how it interacts with (or not interats with)the rest of the fleet.

If I,m taking on imps I,ve always tried to manipulate the inconsistency between the VSD and Glad speed and Manoeuvrability. I now see that same weakness in my fleet when I deploy a big based slow boy.....

Not to mention the tractor beams are a thing now. If you're going speed-2 without techs, you're going at speed-2 max for the rest of the game IF you have a nav queued up. Engine Techs simply do not care if you have Tractor beams. Just nav up to speed-2 and techies boost for speed-3 all day.

Yes, two ISDs are easier to run for many reasons: Their idealistic frontal cone, their ability to take Gunnery Teams to maxmize damage on said cone, their innate speed 3, and their outrageous durability. Motti just makes them even more attractive.

You don't always have to techs, you only use it on turns it will be most value; which falls in that crucial turn 1-2 phase. Maybe you want a slower approach, bank the token. Next turn Nav for position, Engineering for the third and 4th, while spending token on third for extra movement.

It's not just tick that's worth it, it's the distance that you go as well. Those are the differences between getting arc shots or dodging arc shots, or getting blasted back by two ships from their best arcs. Maneuverability in this game is defined by speed and yaw. Being at psuedo speed-3 with the yaw is game-changing compared to speed-2 with the yaw.

Breaking news:

I've had almost 2 games a day since Wave 2 Vassal came out for the most part. I know people that's had the MC80 since Sullust, but I would say that I've played more than 4x the games they've played by now. Games played = more things tried > theorycraft > time had on shelf. I've had 4 games without Engine Techs and the rest of my games with. I've ran heavy squadron, light squadron, no squadron style lists, and have tried heavy damage, control, defense and maneuverability style lists. I've tried heavy rogues, heavy Bs with Independence, heavy X-Wings, and the old tried and true A-Wings. I've tried 2 ship lists, 3 ship lists, 4, and 5 ship lists with both Imperials and Rebels. I've tried other people's builds, some from the Vassal tournament and some that I made up after I've encountered them myself on Vassal. So back to the MC80: I know people who have played 5 total games with the MC80 since they got theirs at Sullust. Not to mention all of my games have been under the Wave 2 meta, not some menagerie mix of Wave 1/2. I have a lot of experience with the MC80 in this matter (at least 25+ games since every list I've built in Wave 2 has had the MC80), so please do not confuse time played with time had. One is certainty more useful than the other.

Be cool, I didn't come here to get into a pissing contest so I'm not even going to get into my own experience. Just giving you feedback.

Relax, you're being verrry un-Dude.

Oh I'm cool. I'm just telling you that Engine Techs are way cooler from experience.

No point having two Home One class when Liberty comes out!

I agree that manuver is incredibly important, which is why engine techs is really really useful. However I try not to use the term "auto include." While many upgrades are in my opinion near 100% guaranteed for me to use on certain ships, I don't want to get stuck in a way of thinking that makes me predictable and less likely to discover new combos. For a tournament, I'm gonna bring something I believe is the best it can be, but in other casual games I don't to fall into set ways of thinking/list building. I need to keep an open mind. While I'm not always perfect at this (point-defense reroute I'm looking at you!), I do try.

Anyway, back to engine techs on the MC80, as the devil's advocate I will point out that since it is two separate maneuvers with ET, you will still have trouble moving past a blocking ship, so you have to plan around that.

And back on the OP topic, I will try 2 mc80s, and probably in a few different ways, but overall I don't think it a really strong list.

If you could fit two MC-80s with two AFIIs (or an AFII and Shrimp with Gunnery Teams), Home One, Defiance, and Ackbar, I'd consider it. But it's about 20 points too high. Plus no squadrons, defensive upgrades, etc. There's a lot of potential in Home One + Defiance + third ship. I'm just not sure it's more potential than 3-4 AFIIs/MC-80s with squadrons.

On the assumption that I was not happy flying two, I'm going to give three a go and see if that works better or if one truly is a charm for MC80s (got one more coming for Christmas). Not much in the way of options for this list so:

Command cruiser, home one, xi7 (119 points)

Command cruiser, defiance, xi7 (117 points )

Command cruiser, Garm ( 131 points)

X3 Awings (33 points)

That's 400 points, can't think of a more effective way to run 3 MC80s any thoughts........