I was thinking 1 ISD 2 with Vader, Avenger, and Gunnery Team, 1 ISD 1 with Relentless and Gunnery Team, and 2 Raider IIs with OP for 400 pts. After my Sullust performance where my main ship with Tarkin repeatedly did 1 whole damage even with lots of concentrating fire and 6 dice, I'm feeling like I need to use Vader a lot.

Has anyone tried this list yet? My big concern would be that while the four raiders with ordinance experts will shred the heck out of any fighters that come near, squadron commands will still let them alpha strike you. The 11 point bid is to emphasize just how important going first with this list is.

I can't wait to use one with expanded launchers. Having 'focus fire' commands on demand (command 1), and so having access to 5 black and 2 blue dice to of the front arc will be real fun. I am looking forward to it.

I'm not sold that expanded launchers are worth it. Taking that almost begs the ship to be given Ordnance Experts, and by then you've sunk almost half the cost of the original ship itself into it via upgrades.

I would probably go with Ordnance Experts and APT and that's it. Re-rolling black dice is just too good.

How have people found them with overload pulse? I was thinking of using a couple to overload targets before shooting them with two ISDs.

I didn't get a single shot off on my overload pulse one. But again, I acknowledge I manouvered poorly.

I wouldn't run OP unless you are also running screed.

I'm of the opinion that if you're going to go OP on Raiders, you want OP on more than one of them. Reason being that they are squishy enough that relying on one is a questionable points gamble, especially if OP is key to your intended strategy (for instance, setting up a hard target for a SD's big salvo).

Now OP on 2-3 raiders just waiting to pants a MC-80 or Assault Guppy for an ISD (*cough*Avenger*cough*) or a couple of GSDs amusement is a viable bet.

I can't wait to use one with expanded launchers. Having 'focus fire' commands on demand (command 1), and so having access to 5 black and 2 blue dice to of the front arc will be real fun. I am looking forward to it.

I'm not sold that expanded launchers are worth it. Taking that almost begs the ship to be given Ordnance Experts, and by then you've sunk almost half the cost of the original ship itself into it via upgrades.

I would probably go with Ordnance Experts and APT and that's it. Re-rolling black dice is just too good.

Try this on for size:

Swimming with Sith

EMPIRE FLEET 393

1 • Gladiator II-class Star Destroyer - Gladiator-class Star Destroyer (62) - Ordnance Experts (4) - Engine Techs (8) - Assault Concussion Missiles (7)

• Total : 81 • Code : e6w5s3n1

2 • Gladiator II-class Star Destroyer - Gladiator-class Star Destroyer (62) - Ordnance Experts (4) - Engine Techs (8) - Assault Concussion Missiles (7)

• Total : 81 • Code : e6w5s3n1

3 • Victory I-class Star Destroyer - Victory-class Star Destroyer (73) - Darth Vader (36)

• Total : 109 • Code : e1c7

4 • Raider I-class corvette - Raider class corvette (44) - Ordnance Experts (4) - Expanded Launchers (13)

• Total : 61 • Code : e25w5n2

5 • Raider I-class corvette - Raider class corvette (44) - Ordnance Experts (4) - Expanded Launchers (13)

• Total : 61 • Code : e25w5n2

Or if you're concerned with Vader not triggering crits as reliably as Screed, perhaps just a dice'alanche will appease:

1 • Victory I-class Star Destroyer - Victory-class Star Destroyer (73) - Darth Vader (36)

• Total : 109 • Code : e1c7

2 • Raider I-class corvette - Raider class corvette (44) - Ordnance Experts (4) - Expanded Launchers (13)

• Total : 61 • Code : e25w5n2

3 • Raider I-class corvette - Raider class corvette (44) - Ordnance Experts (4) - Expanded Launchers (13)

• Total : 61 • Code : e25w5n2

4 • Gladiator I-class Star Destroyer - Gladiator-class Star Destroyer (56) - Ordnance Experts (4) - Engine Techs (8) - Expanded Launchers (13)

• Total : 81 • Code : e5w5s3n2

5 • Gladiator I-class Star Destroyer - Gladiator-class Star Destroyer (56) - Ordnance Experts (4) - Engine Techs (8) - Expanded Launchers (13)

• Total : 81 • Code : e5w5s3n2

I have not had a chance to get a game in with mine yet; so my ideas for them remain untested at this time.

However, I was thinking that an alternate use for them (Vs their anit-fighter capacity) could be protecting the backsides of my Vics or ISDs from the Rebel tactic of racing around the flanks of the engagemnet zone to get into a tailing position on my Imperial ships. Corellian Corvettes in your rear fire arc are hard to shake off and generally a bit of a pest - a Raider watching your six could offset that strategy quite well. But, I still have to test this theory.

I have not had a chance to get a game in with mine yet; so my ideas for them remain untested at this time.

However, I was thinking that an alternate use for them (Vs their anit-fighter capacity) could be protecting the backsides of my Vics or ISDs from the Rebel tactic of racing around the flanks of the engagemnet zone to get into a tailing position on my Imperial ships. Corellian Corvettes in your rear fire arc are hard to shake off and generally a bit of a pest - a Raider watching your six could offset that strategy quite well. But, I still have to test this theory.

If you try it out, I'd recommend the Raider-II as getting a Raider-I into close range is likely wishful thinking. Setting up your activations correctly to catch a CR90(A, I assume) with a Raider-II is already going to be tricky.

I feel like an Engine Techs Demolisher Gladiator would be better for the kind of task you had in mind, though. Chase that CR90 down and feed it all the missiles it can eat and then feed it some more.

I have not had a chance to get a game in with mine yet; so my ideas for them remain untested at this time.

However, I was thinking that an alternate use for them (Vs their anit-fighter capacity) could be protecting the backsides of my Vics or ISDs from the Rebel tactic of racing around the flanks of the engagemnet zone to get into a tailing position on my Imperial ships. Corellian Corvettes in your rear fire arc are hard to shake off and generally a bit of a pest - a Raider watching your six could offset that strategy quite well. But, I still have to test this theory.

If you try it out, I'd recommend the Raider-II as getting a Raider-I into close range is likely wishful thinking. Setting up your activations correctly to catch a CR90(A, I assume) with a Raider-II is already going to be tricky.

I feel like an Engine Techs Demolisher Gladiator would be better for the kind of task you had in mind, though. Chase that CR90 down and feed it all the missiles it can eat and then feed it some more.

Kinda the reason I built the lists I proposed the way I did. I figure GSDs with ET run forward alongside the raiders. Sure, the enemy might shoot the raiders, but that would be a mistake as the GSDs would capitalize on that hard. So, yeah, instead they shoot the GSDs, and then the raiders show you that 4blk/2blu on your soft bits hurts bad. Either way, if both elements manage to dogpile the same target, it's probably going to evaporate in short order. And with the evades (and braces and redirects) they have, if that target is say a MC-80, there's a pretty decent chance that the attack line is going to arrive fairly intact.

Careful but aggressive maneuvering is essential.

The tricky part is keeping the VSD going full steam so that it doesn't get too isolated from the attack line and can (probably around turn 3) contribute its forward salvo to the fray.

But the whole idea is that with that many activations and that many black dice (plus rerolls or insta-crits depending on commander) you're giving your opponent some really tough choices to make, because there are four fast moving heavy hitters just waiting for him/her to make the wrong choice.

But, as I said, keeping the pizza-chariot your is commander on from getting isolated and eaten is the risky part (of course you could slap him on one of the GSDs, but he's almost certain to eat an alpha-strike from everything possible if you do).

I can't wait to use one with expanded launchers. Having 'focus fire' commands on demand (command 1), and so having access to 5 black and 2 blue dice to of the front arc will be real fun. I am looking forward to it.

I'm not sold that expanded launchers are worth it. Taking that almost begs the ship to be given Ordnance Experts, and by then you've sunk almost half the cost of the original ship itself into it via upgrades.

I would probably go with Ordnance Experts and APT and that's it. Re-rolling black dice is just too good.

Honestly, at 48 pts, they're pretty good with JUST Ordnance Experts.

Being able to pull out a CF whenever you need it means they're rolling two blue three black, the equivalent of an MC-30's formidable side arc but much easier to land on target and keep on target.

So you roll your two blue, two black initially, see if you get any accuracies, if so add a black, if not add a blue, then re-roll any blank blacks to maximize damage.

You can reliably land 3-5 dmg and an accuracy this way, or 4-6 without.

Not half bad for a 48 pt ship that can turn on a dime. Add Ozzel for maximum positional fun.

Getting a Raider-I into close range along the most direct route and surviving the approach is wishful thinking.

Blasting around the enemy at speed 4, pulling a 90 degree turn at speed 2, and rocketing into their sensitive rear arcs where you can stay as long as you want is tricky flying, but oh so satisfying.

I should've been more clear earlier: I think it's wishful thinking getting a Raider-I into short range of a CR90 (which was what the quoted plan was about). Versus other ships it's entirely possible, but the CR90 is one slippery fish. The Raider is probably the second slipperiest fish in the game at the moment, but game must recognize game.

I should've been more clear earlier: I think it's wishful thinking getting a Raider-I into short range of a CR90 (which was what the quoted plan was about). Versus other ships it's entirely possible, but the CR90 is one slippery fish. The Raider is probably the second slipperiest fish in the game at the moment, but game must recognize game.

Then I disagree even more than I may previously have.

I've launched a Raider straight across the board at speed four to surprise and one-shot a CR90 who thought himself quite safe.

I should've been more clear earlier: I think it's wishful thinking getting a Raider-I into short range of a CR90 (which was what the quoted plan was about). Versus other ships it's entirely possible, but the CR90 is one slippery fish. The Raider is probably the second slipperiest fish in the game at the moment, but game must recognize game.

Something of near perpetual annoyance to me. I know if I ignore it it's gonna be death by inches, but that chasing after it is a good way to piss off Sun Tzu:

"Therefore, the principles of warfare are: Do not attack an enemy that has the high ground; do not attack an enemy that has his back to a hill; do not pursue feigned retreats; do not attack elite troops; do not swallow the enemy's bait."

I should've been more clear earlier: I think it's wishful thinking getting a Raider-I into short range of a CR90 (which was what the quoted plan was about). Versus other ships it's entirely possible, but the CR90 is one slippery fish. The Raider is probably the second slipperiest fish in the game at the moment, but game must recognize game.

Something of near perpetual annoyance to me. I know if I ignore it it's gonna be death by inches, but that chasing after it is a good way to piss off Sun Tzu:

"Therefore, the principles of warfare are: Do not attack an enemy that has the high ground; do not attack an enemy that has his back to a hill; do not pursue feigned retreats; do not attack elite troops; do not swallow the enemy's bait."

see, thing is Sun Tzu didn't have tractor beams

(not that you even have to put them on the Raider, any ship in range will do

Vader on an ISD-2 w/gunnery + tractor beams + ecm, VSD-1 + tractor beams, and 2 expanded Raider-1s go for 369 points)

I should've been more clear earlier: I think it's wishful thinking getting a Raider-I into short range of a CR90 (which was what the quoted plan was about). Versus other ships it's entirely possible, but the CR90 is one slippery fish. The Raider is probably the second slipperiest fish in the game at the moment, but game must recognize game.

Something of near perpetual annoyance to me. I know if I ignore it it's gonna be death by inches, but that chasing after it is a good way to piss off Sun Tzu:

"Therefore, the principles of warfare are: Do not attack an enemy that has the high ground; do not attack an enemy that has his back to a hill; do not pursue feigned retreats; do not attack elite troops; do not swallow the enemy's bait."

see, thing is Sun Tzu didn't have tractor beams

(not that you even have to put them on the Raider, any ship in range will do)

Heh, yeah

=

I should've been more clear earlier: I think it's wishful thinking getting a Raider-I into short range of a CR90 (which was what the quoted plan was about). Versus other ships it's entirely possible, but the CR90 is one slippery fish. The Raider is probably the second slipperiest fish in the game at the moment, but game must recognize game.

Then I disagree even more than I may previously have.

I've launched a Raider straight across the board at speed four to surprise and one-shot a CR90 who thought himself quite safe.

I don't dispute that it's possible, but I'm hoping you realize how unlikely it is that a proficient CR90 commander will allow you to send your Raider straight into it and then attack it at close range next turn before it can get away. The CR90 outclasses the Raider in both high speed maneuverability as well as attack range, giving it two advantages over a Raider trying to tussle with it.

Has anyone tried this list yet? My big concern would be that while the four raiders with ordinance experts will shred the heck out of any fighters that come near, squadron commands will still let them alpha strike you. The 11 point bid is to emphasize just how important going first with this list is.

Fleet Summary Page (389 of 400 pts)

Faction: The Empire

Commander: Admiral Screed (26 pts)

Flagship: (80 pts)

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 pts)

Gunnery Team (7 pts)

Fleet Ship 1: (71 pts)

Gladiator I-Class Star Destroyer (56 pts)

Demolisher (10 pts)

Assault Proton Torpedoes (5 pts)

Fleet Ship 2: (53 pts)

Raider I-Class Corvette (44 pts)

Ordnance Experts (4 pts)

Assault Proton Torpedoes (5 pts)

Fleet Ship 3: (53 pts)

Raider I-Class Corvette (44 pts)

Ordnance Experts (4 pts)

Assault Proton Torpedoes (5 pts)

Fleet Ship 4: (53 pts)

Raider I-Class Corvette (44 pts)

Ordnance Experts (4 pts)

Assault Proton Torpedoes (5 pts)

Fleet Ship 5: (53 pts)

Raider I-Class Corvette (44 pts)

Ordnance Experts (4 pts)

Assault Proton Torpedoes (5 pts)

Squadrons (0 of 134 pts):

Objectives: Opening Salvo , Hyperspace Assault , Superior Positions

I like this build! Imo, you do not lose much by trading the 6th ship/raider for some squadrons in the case you need them.

With the AA, you won't be killing the squadrons quite fast enough. Even with ordnance experts. Honestly imo, if you took 2ints and howlrunner, that would be sufficient.

Has anyone tried this list yet? My big concern would be that while the four raiders with ordinance experts will shred the heck out of any fighters that come near, squadron commands will still let them alpha strike you. The 11 point bid is to emphasize just how important going first with this list is.

Fleet Summary Page (389 of 400 pts)

Faction: The Empire

Commander: Admiral Screed (26 pts)

Flagship: (80 pts)

Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 pts)

Gunnery Team (7 pts)

Fleet Ship 1: (71 pts)

Gladiator I-Class Star Destroyer (56 pts)

Demolisher (10 pts)

Assault Proton Torpedoes (5 pts)

Fleet Ship 2: (53 pts)

Raider I-Class Corvette (44 pts)

Ordnance Experts (4 pts)

Assault Proton Torpedoes (5 pts)

Fleet Ship 3: (53 pts)

Raider I-Class Corvette (44 pts)

Ordnance Experts (4 pts)

Assault Proton Torpedoes (5 pts)

Fleet Ship 4: (53 pts)

Raider I-Class Corvette (44 pts)

Ordnance Experts (4 pts)

Assault Proton Torpedoes (5 pts)

Fleet Ship 5: (53 pts)

Raider I-Class Corvette (44 pts)

Ordnance Experts (4 pts)

Assault Proton Torpedoes (5 pts)

Squadrons (0 of 134 pts):

Objectives: Opening Salvo , Hyperspace Assault , Superior Positions

I like this build! Imo, you do not lose much by trading the 6th ship/raider for some squadrons in the case you need them.

With the AA, you won't be killing the squadrons quite fast enough. Even with ordnance experts. Honestly imo, if you took 2ints and howlrunner, that would be sufficient.

It's certainly something I'd give a look if I had more raiders (only have 2, but they tempt me, oh yes they do).

And ATP...I only buy Imperial, so I don't have that card.

We tried some APT in a casual game. Wow. They're good! Especially good for blopping small ships.

We tried some APT in a casual game. Wow. They're good! Especially good for blopping small ships.

The best thing about Raiders is that I think they work best in pairs and above. Gives you a great little ship for extra activations, effective against both ships and fighters, and can deliver surprising amounts of damage when used correctly (APTs + ram haha).

We tried some APT in a casual game. Wow. They're good! Especially good for blopping small ships.

The best thing about Raiders is that I think they work best in pairs and above. Gives you a great little ship for extra activations, effective against both ships and fighters, and can deliver surprising amounts of damage when used correctly (APTs + ram haha).

Imo, the Raider is too easy to kill for rams. The best defense for a Raider... don't be shot. Imo, your first upgrade is a 10pt init bid. LOL.

Gotta say, they can of course still tank some. And they're lovely pocket carriers and very reactive. But ****. No redirect.

Be careful you all. That 2nd evade? WHOOOOO.

A naked Glad sometimes seems nicer than a kitted Raider.