I would like to see a scum ace style pack but include a YT-1300 and YT-2000

pure awesomeness!!!

Rather than repaints, Dunelizard and Vaksai models.

As Scyk and Kihraxz alternate paint schemes, along with new titles, pilots, upgrades etc...

Isn't Most Wanted already out?

come on, a double large ship pack hasn't been done yet.

I think it would be cool

I'd really like a Kihraxz in the Black Sun scheme. Also an official Pup, but I doubt they want to make another Z95 pack when it could be put to better use on something else.

what about uglies?

that would be a cool ace pack. 2 or 3 different styles of ugly

The star viper and M3A need fixing before this.

The star viper and M3A need fixing before this.

why do people insist on fixing every ship in the game to make them great.

some ships are just filler ships that fit in certain roles

the best fix for some of these ships is opening up tournaments into scenario style games instead of straight up dog fights.

not every ship should be competitive in every role. its the tournament setting that needs fixing, not the ships.

if they keep fixing ships you will just be adjusting power creep and nothing more.

Each and every ship should be viable in some specific niche.

Scyk and Starviper, Scyk and Kihraxz, Kihraxz and Starviper, any combination would do, because currently the Merc faction is a bit underdoggish.

We have Crab-bro-bots, but hardly much else

The star viper and M3A need fixing before this.

why do people insist on fixing every ship in the game to make them great.

some ships are just filler ships that fit in certain roles

the best fix for some of these ships is opening up tournaments into scenario style games instead of straight up dog fights.

not every ship should be competitive in every role. its the tournament setting that needs fixing, not the ships.

if they keep fixing ships you will just be adjusting power creep and nothing more.

Couldn't DISAGREE more. People insist on fixing every ship so that we can get full use out of the ships we buy and the game we play. If it is fixable, as every ship in the game is, why would we not want a fix?

Some ships are just filler. We want them to be good filler. No one is asking for ships that do "every role". We are asking for the ships who currently don't have any role in the game to get one.

This is a dogfighting game. Scenarios are nice and all but the game was designed around outfly if and out dicing your opponent. A few tack on rules aren't going to change that but I'm confident FFG could think of something that won't feel "just tacked on" IF they decide that is a design priority.

Adjusting powercreep? Really? This is still by far the most balanced miniatures game I have ever seen or heard of. There are very few bad choices and no "best". The only powercreeps released have been nerfed and the only ships that have gained significant power were the under powered ones! Which brings us back to: fix the ships that need fixed. It's the only right thing to do.

My guess is that when they release the Scum big ships next year, they will do some fixes for the Star Viper and the M3-A. Those are the scum ships that need the most help. I would image that they will release a scum aces. It follows their release pattern.

A Large ship aces pack that brings 2 iconically Rebel ships to the Scum would be... odd. That feel like the sort of thing FFG would do if they were out of other ideas. Don't get me wrong: I think there's interesting room in that space. But I don't think it's something they should be doing anytime soon.

Far more interesting to me- if they are going to do an Aces style pack- would be a Scyk/StarViper MandalMotors thing. These ships are both a touch underpowered would benefit a great deal from more customization options. If they were feeling _really_ cheeky, they could give us more cardboard for Z-95s while they were at it. But not more actual Z-95s. I'm drowning in those.

I just don't love the Black Sun nor the Rebel scheme for the Hound's Tooth is all. I don't actually need Z95s at all and wouldn't really want one to take room that could be spent fixing the other scum ships.

People insist on fixing every ship so that we can get full use out of the ships we buy and the game we play. If it is fixable, as every ship in the game is, why would we not want a fix?

The problem is, quite a lot of the people bleating on about "fixing this or fixing that" tend to either

a: not own the ships in question or

b: not play them much/at all if they do.

...so really, instead of actually playing with the ships, learning their intricacies, abilities, quirks and roles, they're just saying "make this gud now plz", or simply dismissing them entirely because they're not immediately part of the tournament meta. Which is frankly ridiculous, and a totally unhelpful WAAC approach.

The people who actually put some time and effort into playing with and practicing some of the non-meta ships actually quite enjoy them and get decent mileage out of them.

If FFG consider a ship to be in need of help, they'll give it help, but they'll do it in a calm and measured manner.

I think when Worlds has a showing of every ship except for the Scyk and TIE Bomber (and 1 Defender), then those ships need a little love.

I'm not saying they have to be fixed to the point of an ATC Vader, because - you're right - the power creep would just create more rebalancing.

But if 30,000 points worth of ships at Worlds doesn't feature even a single one of those ships, something should be done IMO.

The problem is, quite a lot of the people bleating on about "fixing this or fixing that" tend to either

a: not own the ships in question or

b: not play them much/at all if they do.

And your proof of this is...?

The problem is, quite a lot of the people bleating on about "fixing this or fixing that" tend to either

a: not own the ships in question or

b: not play them much/at all if they do.

And your proof of this is...?

he needs no proofs, I suppose. It's subjective.

The competitive play results can argue with his position, yes.

Tournament-level rosters see less Scyks than even T-65's

No matter how cool you play and how well you anticipate your opponent's moves, you won't squeeze more out of an under-powered\overcosted ship than out of a powerhouse\underprice ship.

But he still has the right for his opinion even without statistics and proofs. let him have FUN™ in Dwarf Fortress style if he likes.

The problem is, quite a lot of the people bleating on about "fixing this or fixing that" tend to either

a: not own the ships in question or

b: not play them much/at all if they do.

And your proof of this is...?

To be fair, it's not unreasonable to assume that. The Scyk and Starviper have never been popular in tournaments and the underpowered narrative has probably further discouraged people from fielding or buying them.

In my case, I bought two Scyks because I was very excited to fly them. And I flew them a lot. They're not auto-lose, but they just don't feel like they ever have a good matchup. Aces, jousters, TLTs, and PWTs are all predators and the cost of an HLC Scyk makes them too tempting of a target.

Starvipers are in a decent spot I think, though I wish Xizor's ability worked against TLTs.

The star viper and M3A need fixing before this.

why do people insist on fixing every ship in the game to make them great.

some ships are just filler ships that fit in certain roles

the best fix for some of these ships is opening up tournaments into scenario style games instead of straight up dog fights.

not every ship should be competitive in every role. its the tournament setting that needs fixing, not the ships.

if they keep fixing ships you will just be adjusting power creep and nothing more.

People insist on fixing every ship so that we can get full use out of the ships we buy and the game we play. If it is fixable, as every ship in the game is, why would we not want a fix?

The problem is, quite a lot of the people bleating on about "fixing this or fixing that" tend to either

a: not own the ships in question or

b: not play them much/at all if they do.

...so really, instead of actually playing with the ships, learning their intricacies, abilities, quirks and roles, they're just saying "make this gud now plz", or simply dismissing them entirely because they're not immediately part of the tournament meta. Which is frankly ridiculous, and a totally unhelpful WAAC approach.

The people who actually put some time and effort into playing with and practicing some of the non-meta ships actually quite enjoy them and get decent mileage out of them.

If FFG consider a ship to be in need of help, they'll give it help, but they'll do it in a calm and measured manner.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions but if you don't think the M3A doesn't need some love you will find yourself in a vast minority. The ship is not costed appropriately for what it is. The Star Viper I find to be in a grey area as they are expensive for my taste but can most certainly be built around (see Guri or Xizor.) Gecko I normally dig what you post but your two points really don't sit with me (and probably other that will read this) very well at all. A) You have no idea what anybody owns until you see it or they put it in their signature (though that is most certainly not lie proof) and B) I believe I am in right in assuming that most players will run what they own at least a few times B2) maybe the reason those ships aren't investigated to their full extent because you are playing at a handicap against anything remotely competitive (not as true about the viper but most certainly true about the M3A)

The star viper and M3A need fixing before this.

why do people insist on fixing every ship in the game to make them great.

some ships are just filler ships that fit in certain roles

the best fix for some of these ships is opening up tournaments into scenario style games instead of straight up dog fights.

not every ship should be competitive in every role. its the tournament setting that needs fixing, not the ships.

if they keep fixing ships you will just be adjusting power creep and nothing more.

I'd settle for playable.

what about uglies?

that would be a cool ace pack. 2 or 3 different styles of ugly

No, No, No... just no.

what about uglies?

that would be a cool ace pack. 2 or 3 different styles of ugly

No, No, No... just no.

Thanks for the catch, I meant to add this to the end of mine and forgot. Staggering discontent, you know the feeling.

Y'all wanna make your uglies, go ahead. I would suggest the firepower and secondary weapons of the fuselage and the dial and agility of the enginge/wing. Easy enough to kit-bash. I sincerely hope those Tie-Y-Z-Fight-Wing abominations never show up officially.

The star viper and M3A need fixing before this.

if they keep fixing ships you will just be adjusting power creep and nothing more.

Not really true. Historically, the game has a legacy of fixing ships primarily because a lot of things were designed before a strong balance point was established. The first 3 waves really overvalued a lot of the perk mechanics (upgrades and pilots) and led to a game dominated by the raw stat values of ships.

As the game matured this went away, but precisely because, and this is just a gut feeling/assumption, they established the TIE swarm as the game's proper balance curve and started adjusting accordingly. Since then we've continually seen things done to adjust the game essentially around this list template, with the TIE/FO-Gozanti representing the first time we've actually seen them look to change the swarm itself (and arguably these appear to be trying to create more diverse swarms rather than more powerful ones).

It seems to work pretty well and we've seen an ever increasing diversity in playable ships. That doesn't mean there aren't outliers though. It does get a little harder when you get to meta dependancies. Right now the Y-Wing seems to have eclipsed the B, but is it a raw power differential or more preferential. More importantly, if its a power differential, how severe is it and can it be accounted for in maneuverability?

Happily, most ships are in a place where they might not see a lot of play, but its more of a trend/player preference issue or just the result of the limited number of ships in a given game not leaving a lot of room for two similar ships no matter how minor the power disparity. There are other ships that are just behind the curve though; that are, simply put, notably below the TIE Swarm. A lot of them need fixing; and its not power creep, that's bringing options up to the power curve. Power creep requires something so powerful it completely invalidates the Swarm and demands all the ships that currently see play be brought up to the new standard.

TL:DR - As long as you see the swarm still float around in that Top 16 (value depends on how many diverse viable lists exist) sort of placement we're not seeing any sort of significant power creep by fixing bad models.

I would like to see a scum ace style pack but include a YT-1300 and YT-2000

pure awesomeness!!!

If that happens, it would most likely be a Most Wanted II where ships from the other 2 factions are used in S&V. Since 1 Large Imp and 3 Small Rebels were used previously, if a second set does get produced, ! Large Rebel and 3 Small Imps is not out of the question. The TIE Bomber, TIE Defender are both excellent contenders - both are ships that are poorly represented in tournaments, and in old EU lore were used by the Gand, the Nami, the Zann Consortium and even Rogue Squadron. The basic TIE Fighter also was also used by some pirates and the Zann Consortium but it's role is already filled by the Z-95 in the Scum list. The last could be a totally new non-TIE ship with association with both the Empire and Scum such as the Alpha-class Xg-1 or an old Clone Wars era ship, mostly decommed by the Empire and used by Scum such as the Alpha-3 Nimbus, V-19 Torrent, Belbullab-22, Eta-2 Actis.

There is possibility a new TFA Falcon in the works, it's possible to be a multi faction.

Aces are fixes for ships that don't see enough tournament play. The Scyk, StarViper and maybe the Kihraxz could use a popularity boost.