Hello

I have been thinking of allowing to play armada with no chosen admiral. Why do you probably ask ?

Not every fleet commander in the Rebel or Imperial fleet was famous like the admirals we have to choose from to day. And I am getting little bit tired of the same choices all the time.

So how can I do this and still not ruin the game.

I am thinking that a player may choose to run his fleet without a admiral , but then we have to compensate for the lacking command structure. To do this I will give a fleet that have no Admiral one extra command value on every ship. So now they have to plan much better ahead. A Nebulon-B will now have 3 in command. But he will not benefit from the new command value and stack 3 tokens. He may still stack only 2.

What do you think about this ??

I think it is interesting

No commander lists will have more points for ships, upgrades, and squadrons - but that extra command penalty will be huge especially on the bigger ships. I like it

Why a penalty at all?

Just run it without named admiral. Saves you a handful of points.

Problem solved.

I think the missing a commander AND having more command dials is a double penalty, like a red card in the box in soccer, you get a penalty shot and a player sent off.

Commanders might be costly but they also represent the highest value per point you can have across an entire fleet.

Why a penalty at all?

Just run it without named admiral. Saves you a handful of points.

Problem solved.

Yeah, this is better. And for the record, if an opponent wanted to do this I would be more than willing to let him in a non-tourney setting. If you want to hobble yourself for enough extra points to get 3 or 4 more stands of tie fighters or 1 rogue squadron then by all means...

I'll be over here flipping blank black dice for 2 hits with screed or re-rolling handfuls of dice with Vader or evading damage at medium range with Mothma or having zombie turns with riekaan etc etc etc

I agree that no commander at all is enough of a penalty. Commanders are points well spent for their effects. In a casual game, someone running with no commander wouldn't bother me.

I can understand that buying an admiral gives some bonuses , but I am not sure every admiral is worth his points. You have consider following.

It is an advantage to have minimum 20 more points. Not choosing a commander may let you chose a huge ship instead of a medium ship. Or more squadrons or upgrade cards.

If you take the lowest points admirals and you may choose to get 20 points more or their skill wouldnt you at least consider it. Take into fact also the the admirals may go down with their ship and may be the points that make you loose the game.

I feel it should be some disadvantage for choosing an unexperienced commander and gain extra points. The best way I can think of is to give the ships a slower reaction through the chain of command. If you are a good player, planning ahead will not be such a drawback and worth to gain these points.

I just want to add the option for a player to do so, if he realy want to. Even if most players would choose a high cost Admiral for those good bonuses. They might be supprised one day if someone choose something unexpected.

Maybe it will be a very bad choice to not chose a admiral or maybe not. Only playing a few games will tell :-)

I can understand that buying an admiral gives some bonuses , but I am not sure every admiral is worth his points. You have consider following.

It is an advantage to have minimum 20 more points. Not choosing a commander may let you chose a huge ship instead of a medium ship. Or more squadrons or upgrade cards.

If you take the lowest points admirals and you may choose to get 20 points more or their skill wouldnt you at least consider it. Take into fact also the the admirals may go down with their ship and may be the points that make you loose the game.

I feel it should be some disadvantage for choosing an unexperienced commander and gain extra points. The best way I can think of is to give the ships a slower reaction through the chain of command. If you are a good player, planning ahead will not be such a drawback and worth to gain these points.

I just want to add the option for a player to do so, if he realy want to. Even if most players would choose a high cost Admiral for those good bonuses. They might be supprised one day if someone choose something unexpected.

Maybe it will be a very bad choice to not chose a admiral or maybe not. Only playing a few games will tell :-)

A few games, or math.

Take a commander like Ackbar. Taking him an a purpose built fleet can mean shooting like 10 -20 more dice, the 38 points you would save will never ever ever result in a similar uptick to damage output. It isn't enough to get another ship even. It might be enough to upgrade a ship to something bigger but the delta between what the smaller ship would have thrown to the bigger will likely never equal the Ackbar damage output.

Ditto defensively with mon mothma.

Screed is 26 points, in an imperial list 26 points wont buy you much else (3 tie fighters? whoopee) but with a purpose built fleet that thrives on crits his return on those 26 points is going to outpace the return from 3 tie fighters or upgrading a Glad to a vic or whatever in something like 2 or 3 procs.

Sorry, but on the face of it, it sounds like a handicap not an advantage. Even the cheapest admiral (Ozzel) gives you the equivalent of always having an invisible nav token on every single ship for the entire game. With Ozzel a swarm list of raiders can, with a banked token and a nav command, go from speed 1 to speed 4 in 1 turn! and then go back down to speed 2 the next turn...tell me that isn't game changing if you are trying to block a conga line?

There is room for more commander variety for sure, and if you want to go without one, knock yourself out, I think the feedback here is that while your extra command dial idea might be good for theme it is actually terrible for balance reasons as foregoing a commander will never net you the same value-for-points as taking one if you are building a coherent list. If you have an actual intent and strategy to your list the right commander synergizes and supercharges it, get rid of that synergy AND add a handicap? yikes.

I agree that no commander at all is enough of a penalty. Commanders are points well spent for their effects. In a casual game, someone running with no commander wouldn't bother me.

Yup, agreed.

Interesting and understandable points you all have. It might be unbalanced when I listen to your arguments.

Maybe If we give away an extra 25 points and let the they still have the command penalty.

How will it sound then....

I just want have another option then people choosing the same admirals like Ackbar all the time. Where is the balance point before people will say , okay I might try this...

Are admirals so overpowering that they are underpriced...

Interesting and understandable points you all have. It might be unbalanced when I listen to your arguments.

Maybe If we give away an extra 25 points and let the they still have the command penalty.

How will it sound then....

I just want have another option then people choosing the same admirals like Ackbar all the time. Where is the balance point before people will say , okay I might try this...

Are admirals so overpowering that they are underpriced...

Armada is a well-balanced game which means (for the most part) most things are correctly priced but some things will result in more value than others in a given situation or strategy. For example, taking a few expanded hangar bays on a list with 3 squadron stands would be a low value expenditure of points but in a heavy rhymerball setup, you will get value. Similarly, in a fleet with lots of dice to throw, Vader looms large. Synergy + Strategy = Value. Taking the wrong commander or not having a strategy to a list in the first place CAN make a commander seem like an imposed waste of points.

If you really wanted to try this then go for it, it might be more fun for you and after all, this is a game and that's what games are for! Is there a magic number where no Admiral + extra points + more commands balances? Probably. But it would be nearly impossible to say. I for one, would never want to have to set my fourth command at the beginning of the game, I feel it would take a lot of the fun away. It also can have unintended consequences as the Relentless title is now WAY more valuable then the measly few points it would cost and so it the other officer that allows you to ditch your command dials, so you see, adding command dials would brutalize the balance in unintended ways.

HelloI have been thinking of allowing to play armada with no chosen admiral. Why do you probably ask ?Not every fleet commander in the Rebel or Imperial fleet was famous like the admirals we have to choose from to day. And I am getting little bit tired of the same choices all the time.So how can I do this and still not ruin the game.I am thinking that a player may choose to run his fleet without a admiral , but then we have to compensate for the lacking command structure. To do this I will give a fleet that have no Admiral one extra command value on every ship. So now they have to plan much better ahead. A Nebulon-B will now have 3 in command. But he will not benefit from the new command value and stack 3 tokens. He may still stack only 2.What do you think about this ??

This sounds super fun and reall interesting. Playing a mission where a small rebel force has assassinated the imperial commander and a larger imperial force is trying to piece itself together with to many command dials to seek vengeance!

Once had a thought experiment with myself: Imagine a commander with zero cost who only gave you more fleet points to spend. How many would that commander need to give you to make it worth it? It'd probably be in the range of 30-40?