Just 5 ships I own, maybe they could be an okay list?

Rebel Op (16)

Prototype Pilot (17)

Gold Squadron Pilot + R5-D8 (21)

Rookie Pilot (21)

Blue Squadron Novice + R2 Astro (25)

100

I know the HWK is subpar, but for 16 points, who cares? The Y and 290 can hang out front and soak up lasers while the rest of the Wings act as a nice thematic fighter escort.

Or I could drop the HwK and spend the loots on upgrades, which is probably the smarter idea. Would it be worth it to have some regen astros and maybe a turret on the Y? I could maye even bump someone up to take an EPT, and get some better PS on the table too. At any rate I think the basic premise is okay. Have yet to play this but I'm looking at trying it out soon.

Drop that 16 point hawk. Get a turret for ywing and get named xwings. Prototypes work fine, but would suggest adding the Refit to it even if you don't have the card to use. They truly are only worth 15 points and not 17.

A Hawk really will do nothing unless it has either (a) a turret or (b) some 'support' crew assisting the rest of the squad.

I'm thinking a Z-95 would be better than a 290, but oh well. Okay, here is what I decided on.

Blue Squad Novice + R2D2

Rookie Pilot + R2F2

Gold Squad Pilot + R3A2+ProTorps

Green Squad Pilot + Lone Wolf + Prockets

100

I really wanted everyone to be packin' an Astro, mostly for themed reasons, but out of all the ones I have I consider these 3 droids to be the most useful. R2s to help the XWings stay afloat, R3H8U to shut down those nasty PTLers, and LW on the A-Wing flanker. Oh and some ordnance, just because I really feel like 1 Ion Turret isn't enough. I'd rather have none if I can't have two Ion dealers! 3 Would be ideal, but then that's a different list!

Not looking for a super competitive list, more thematic than anything else, but I don't want to provide easy pickins'!

I'm thinking a Z-95 would be better than a 290, but oh well. Okay, here is what I decided on.

Blue Squad Novice + R2D2

Rookie Pilot + R2F2

Gold Squad Pilot + R3A2+ProTorps

Green Squad Pilot + Lone Wolf + Prockets

100

I really wanted everyone to be packin' an Astro, mostly for themed reasons, but out of all the ones I have I consider these 3 droids to be the most useful. R2s to help the XWings stay afloat, R3H8U to shut down those nasty PTLers, and LW on the A-Wing flanker. Oh and some ordnance, just because I really feel like 1 Ion Turret isn't enough. I'd rather have none if I can't have two Ion dealers! 3 Would be ideal, but then that's a different list!

Not looking for a super competitive list, more thematic than anything else, but I don't want to provide easy pickins'!

If you have an a-wing, do you not have push the limit? That should be the first card you reach for when putting together an a-wing with a elite slot.

If you have an HWK and a y-wing, you must also have a turret. Slap one on! Its the reason those ships exist.

R2-D2 is a great little droid. R2-F2 seems good in theory, but in practice is garbage unless you have some way of getting multiple actions (although its not really worth building an entire list around, so for example, don't bother taking squad leader just to get mileage out of R2-F2).

Here's my suggested tweak to your list:

Blue Squadron Novice w/ R2-D2 = 28

Rookie pilot w/ R5-P9 = 24 (I assume you have the transport since you mention R3-A2)

Gold squadron w/ R3-A2 & ion turret = 25

Green squadron w/ push the limit, a-wing test pilot & wired = 23 (I assume you have the new core set and rebel aces because you listed proton rocket)

100

If you do not have push the limit, then hummmm....not sure what you could do to make an effective a-wing other than run Jake naked (but I assume you want generic pilots given your previous builds).

Nopes to the R5 and Aces. I just traded a few cards is all. I could put PTL on the A-Wing, but since I don't have Aces I'm missing out on a lot of good A-Wing stuff. That rally should be my next buy, that and a Falcon for the wife!

I guess I could go for the Turret on the Y, drop the ordnance and PTL the A-Wing. The turret might fail, but at least it sticks around. Kinda like Prockets on the A-Wing still though...

I know R2F2 isn't the best, but the basic X-Wing is so lacklustre when it comes to actions I really don't mind skipping focus to grab n extra green dice, even if it is just going to roll blanks, haha! It was either that or put R3 on the X-Wing and put R5D8 (the damage card discarder) on the Y. I feel like that astro works on the Y thanks to it's thick hull.

Okay..... thoughts.

1. Blue novice with R2 - fair enough. It's a big investment in a generic pilot, but the T-70 is your biggest, most expensive fighter, so if you're putting it anywhere, put it there. Pile in, shoot the hell out of something, then leg it (using boost as needed) and recover the shields you've lost.
2. The Rookie.....less good. The problem with R2-F2 is that the extra die isn't as good as a focus token. It's better if you're taking concentrated fire, but (unlike Biggs) you can't make people concentrate fire on him. R3A2 might well be a better call - if the Y-wing doesn't have a turret, the X-wing is better with R3 A2 as you need to burn off the stress yourself and the X-wing has green moves other than straight on.
3. Gold with proton torpedoes.....Ordnance isn't bad per se, but it's overpriced and hard to get locks reliably with low pilot skill pilots. A turret is a better investment - save the torpedoes for the better pilots and those with cards like fire control system, munitions failsafe and extra munitions.
4. Proton rockets are good ordnance because they remove most of the problems with ordnance - you don't have to pre-declare your target, and move order is less of an issue. My problem is Lone Wolf. As you say, this is a swarm. The more ships you have on the field, the worse Lone Wolf is, because it's harder to stay out of your friend's way. This goes double for a range 1 knife-fighter.

Yeah, flew this list today and it bombed. Badly.

Go figure. Rely on dice and they fail every time. Never mind the upgrade cards. If your dice never roll useable results, then who cares what you got?

I think i'm just gonna ebay up X amount of accuracy correctors or something. I'll start another topic.

Magnus is 100% right.

The T70 is too pricey. Opponents will recognize the potential and focus it down. No good. Cut!

The Rookie. Yeah F2 seems nice but what did it do? Give me an extra flubbed die. Cut!

Gold Y Stresser. Also no good. Ditching stress is a non-issue, just keep things in arc and keep piling on the stress. Ordnance, no good. Half-cut!

A-Wing flanker. Dumb dumb move. Whenever LW could have kicked in I forgot about it or it did nothing. I can't even see the worth of it in a non swarm. Reroll one blank? That's only worth 1 point to me. Someone will want to trade for that. Cut!

So what do we have left? Not much, So lets try again.

What worked? R3 was good and would have been even better on a more mobile ship. I want to say that the Y-Wing did well, but it didn't. I know from experience that it would have been much better with a turret and nothing else. The A-Wing... it was the only ship that I was satisfied with and despite my inexperience, it was the only ship to play any meaningful role, being able to take an evade and thus survive more than a glance. I'm actually considering trading a few ships for more A-Wings, just for this fact!

At any rate, it's a good lesson in list building. I think I'll avoid trying to go against the grain from now on!

Magnus is 100% right.

The T70 is too pricey. Opponents will recognize the potential and focus it down. No good. Cut!

The Rookie. Yeah F2 seems nice but what did it do? Give me an extra flubbed die. Cut!

Gold Y Stresser. Also no good. Ditching stress is a non-issue, just keep things in arc and keep piling on the stress. Ordnance, no good. Half-cut!

A-Wing flanker. Dumb dumb move. Whenever LW could have kicked in I forgot about it or it did nothing. I can't even see the worth of it in a non swarm. Reroll one blank? That's only worth 1 point to me. Someone will want to trade for that. Cut!

I think you might be over-reacting just a bit. While some of the things you say are probably true to some extent (dice are a part of the game, so luck/bad luck is bound to happen), but you can't really rate a list on a single play experience. You had a bad game. Your list didn't do what you expected, but, and don't take this the wrong way, a loss is usually not entirely the list's fault. Unless you encountered a total hard-counter, there were probably some flying mistakes in there that you could improve upon for next game and see the list do better.

Actions are a big part of the game, and they certainly matter, but position is even bigger. Being in a place where you have the shots you want to make (and your opponent doesn't) is a more sure way of winning games than trying to build the 'perfect' list.

My suggestion would be to take a 'simple' list (that is, one with few upgrades so less stuff that can be forgotten) and focus on predicting picking the moves that put your ships where you need them to be (and not getting in each other's way) and then, when you see how your opponent reacts to your positioning, try to predict what your opponent's plan is, where he wants to put his ships in the following turn, and then find moves that totally screw his plan over and ruin his positioning.

After some practice and familiarity, I think then you can start looking for 'more interesting' lists. For example:

Rookie pilot = 21

Blue squad novice = 24

Blue squad (b-wing) = 22

Gold squad = 18

proto pilot w/ chardaan refit = 15

100

This isn't really the most competitive, but it would easy for you to get this list and run it (you just have to buy rebel aces and you have everything). Even before you get it the ships, take what you have and put them down on your kitchen table (or whatever flat surface). Scatter your asteroids around and break out your maneuver templates. Now practice flying the ships together around the table, avoiding the rocks and not bumping into each other. Familiarize yourself with their dials. See what different ways you can set them up for an opening. Then, grab a 'dummy' enemy ship. Put it down out of range of your ships and pick moves so they can get it in arc. The play out some 'what ifs': what if the ship k-turns, what move do your ships need to keep it in arc? What if it hard turns to the left? Banks to the right? What moves can you pick in each case that give you the most shots with the minimum return fire.

Good luck and try not to let one game sour your experience----it won't be the last time you lose (unless you stop playing ). I've played hundreds upon hundreds of games, and while I win far more than I lose, I still lose games even in situations I feel I should win because there are a variety of factors. But its a **** good game (best miniatures game I've played) and I feel that the time and effort I've put into learning and improving have helped me immensely (I still practice whenever I can because I feel like its the sort of game you can get 'rusty' at if you stay away from it too long...)

Ack...

No, no, I'm not "soured" by my experience, but rather I see now that I was trying to do some silly things with upgrades. How did someone put it in another thread? Cutesy? I was building a cutesy list. Also I really need to learn written inflection better. Maybe more smileys?

There.

Anyways, I'm not dissuaded by the list, moreso the upgrades. I was going to post another version of the list but realized I left my gear at the shop and I haven't found an online squad builder I like yet.

A-Wing flanker. Dumb dumb move. Whenever LW could have kicked in I forgot about it or it did nothing. I can't even see the worth of it in a non swarm. Reroll one blank? That's only worth 1 point to me. Someone will want to trade for that. Cut!

The value of upgrades increase as you stack them together - the whole is worth more than the sum of its parts.

Reroll one blank die gives you only a 1/3 chance of getting an evade. Unless you have a focus token.

But - being an A-wing - you should have said focus token, because you should always be getting actions. And you can easily get 'bonus' actions from Push The Limit, because clearing off the stress is easy.

Now stack autothrusters on to that (swap 1 blank to an evade). Now you're essentially swapping two results from blanks to evades.

...Now stack an evade token on that....

The thing to fix in your mind is that small differences have a big effect. Because it's not how much damage an attack does, but how much damage it does over and above what your opponent evades.

Forgetting Lone Wolf is an easy mistake and shouldn't dissuade you from using it. One thing to try is to stick to mostly generics and (slowly) add in special upgrades. If you're flying lots of different ships, then stick to learning that 'problem' for a while. I assure you that despite people angst-ing about this combination or that combination you can be perfectly effective with a large block of heavy fighters if you know how to fly them better than your opponent.

A suggestion - limited 'special stuff' to keep track of.

• Red Squadron Veteran
• Red Squadron Pilot
• Grey Squadron Pilot - R3-A2 and a Turret (Ion or Twin Laser as you have or prefer)
• Green Squadron Pilot - Chaardan Refit, Push The Limit

Essentially, it's the stuff that you found worked, plus a slightly higher pilot skill.

The T70 is too pricey. Opponents will recognize the potential and focus it down. No good. Cut!

Actually, it's not bad, but it can't afford to go up the centre. It needs to use its dial to avoid arcs of fire, because it doesn't have enough green dice to avoid shots if it's caught in one.

The Talon Roll and Boost are key elements in this. One of the naughtiest combination - if you have access to or can trade for the bits - is R2-D6 (Rebel Transport), Adrenaline Rush (TIE Bomber), and Blue Ace.

Measure it out yourself with templates and bases - reveal a Talon Roll to your left, discard adrenaline rush, and then use boost and make a hard turn left for your action - you end up having moved sideways to your left, facing back at your starting position, and you're not even stressed....

And yes, dice will betray you. This is why a lot of the game comes down to either (a) stacking up bonus dice and dice modifiers in your favour, (b) forcing your opponent to operate without them, or © trying to create lists which don't rely on such things.

B-wings and Twin Laser Turret Y-wings are common ships because they're reliable - they use shields and damage capacity, not green dice, to survive, and can use fire control systems to get easy target locks and twin laser turrets to get good damage by the force of averages with the sheer number of dice they roll.

Don't underestimate the humble focus token. The difference in fighting power between two seemingly identical ships where one gets its focus tokens and one doesn't is massive in practice. Learning to 'block' - move low pilot skill ships where aces collide with them - is a very good trick to master.

Thanks again Magnus! Again, good advice. I think your idea of boosting the PS will help a lot, and I'm looking forward to trying out a simplified version, probably the one you listed.

I am guilty of favouring TL over focus, I find that I roll a lot of blanks, and the TL just seems to average out better and I think I know why. TL is great when you flub a lot of dice, so the act of picking up a lot of dice thanks to a reroll feels nice. But then you are right back at square one with a bunch of rerolled blanks and blinks! If you had focussed instead maybe you only modify one or two dice and it seems counter intuitive because you think well I could have rerolled all of those flubs, but in reality... it's just better to take the gauranteed mod.

Here is an idea... I've dropped the T-70 altogether in favour of one of my favourite combos so far, dual ICT. Trading an X-Wing for a 290 you say? Yes, but that's not all. I know you said keep it simple, but I don't think this is too much for even a total noob. I think I'm combining some good ideas and if I'm not wrong, putting them on the right ships.

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Rebel%20Alliance&d=v3!s!31:18,-1:-1:-1:;5:150,-1,69:-1:-1:;6:0,-1,-1,-1:-1:-1:;45:0,-1:-1:-1:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't this be a good build for Luke?

Luke+Wired+R3A2 (31)

This way he isn't as vulnerable after spending his focus token and can maybe afford to carry stress for a round or two. I don't think you would want to double stress, but maybe that could be handy too?

Luke+Wired+R3A2 (31)

This way he isn't as vulnerable after spending his focus token and can maybe afford to carry stress for a round or two. I don't think you would want to double stress, but maybe that could be handy too?

Luke is not bad with the stress droid, and yeah wired provides nice synergy. His ability helps keep him alive sometimes, even while stressed...

Here is an idea... I've dropped the T-70 altogether in favour of one of my favourite combos so far, dual ICT. Trading an X-Wing for a 290 you say? Yes, but that's not all. I know you said keep it simple, but I don't think this is too much for even a total noob. I think I'm combining some good ideas and if I'm not wrong, putting them on the right ships.

Nothing's "too much" - if you find yourself forgetting or missing things, then don't worry - you'll get the hang of it in a few games.

A HWK-290 isn't a bad ship - I say a HWK-290 won't do much without well chosen upgrades. With upgrades, it's no less capable than any other small ship - and with the Moldy Crow title, it's one of the best going (especially the scum versions). It is, for example, the cheapest platform for turrets, and - thanks to the fact it has 5 health and 2 agility, rather than 8 health and 1, it works rather better at long range than a Y-wing at evading incoming fire.

Two Ion cannon turrets are indeed a good call - it means you can be much more confident of zapping the ship of your choice, or that you've got the firepower to zap a big ship (which require two ion tokens to affect). Plus, if you're learning to fly many ships at once, turrets help reduce the number of problems you've got to keep in your head at once - allowing you to concentrate on moving the ships with restricted arcs of fire to where they'll have shots and worrying less about the turrets.