hey guys,

I'll cut to the chase, the "problem" with this beast is that I'll never ever play an imperial list without it, not because it's stupid good, but because it's the goddamn ISD. I am, in fact, relatively certain that most of the local imperial players got into the game because of this ship

and why not? It's ******* gorgeous

Thing is, both myself and another player have identified the ISD-2 as being a pretty monstrous thing (especially on the rebel end, since it'll one-shot corvs and 2-shot nebs) but, far more than the Rebel Mon Cal, it'll eat your points.

The ISD-2 is 120 base, though it's actually 127 because you're going to take Gunnery Teams (don't even bother fighting that fact) and possibly 134 to 136 if ECM is as essential as Home One Akbar is making it seem and Needa continues to be as useful as he has been (seriously, 2 points is a steal).

By contrast, a command-cruiser Defiance can lumber around with Heavy turbo-laser turrets and ECM for 116, 4 less than the ISD-2 base cost. Note, this doesn't mean the ISD-2 is overpriced relative to the mon cal, as the ISD-2 is definitely a ship that can carry the game on its shoulders when properly supported whereas Defiance I feel cannot (lacking gunnery teams is really painful). The ISD-2 is a far more potent force than the VSD-2. The combination of 8 total dice and a vastly superior navigation chart make it an absolute terror to face I am absolutely not kidding when I say it can win you games on its own.

The problem, then, is one of list-building variety. It feels incredibly difficult to get enough bodies and squadrons while catering to the needs of this beast (and, because it's so **** iconic, it's so difficult to justify not taking it )

As of now, I have been satisfied with Motti at the helm of an ISD-2 and double VSD-1 (+bossk and 3 sprays to compliment). It lacks in activations (4 seems to be the comfortable minimum in Wave 2) it makes up in pure hull and steam-roll potential.

How has everyone else been using the most iconic of Star Wars ships? Do you perhaps prefer the ISD-1?

Isd-I all day.

Black dice best dice.

My ISD problem is that I currently don't have an ISD yet.

You are comparing the higher costing ISD 2 to the lower costing MC80.

Other than that, the ISD 2 is a battlefield terror!

I have not played with it yet so I am not enamored with it as much. . .

People will get over it. Right now people's lost building is going to be primarily motivated by the novelty of stuff they've waited so long for.

Isd-I all day.

Black dice best dice.

meh

I'd much rather not expose over 100 points and that fat an arse to the entirety of the enemy fleet

plus, in terms of reliability, blue dice are actually the best (except vrs squadrons)

I won't put the ISD-1 down immediately, but the black dice on their own are nowhere near enough a draw when you're already flinging 8 dice at a much more flexible distance. Combined with Gunnery Team, the ISD-2 can unleash its full potential against multiple targets. The ISD-1 seems far more clumsy than that

My ISD problem is that I currently don't have an ISD yet.

that is a grievous issue

You are comparing the higher costing ISD 2 to the lower costing MC80.

Other than that, the ISD 2 is a battlefield terror!

I have not played with it yet so I am not enamored with it as much. . .

well yes and no

the MC80's deal is that it's actually not that much cheaper (4 to 6 points), but the Assault Cruiser variant is so terribly uninspiring that I see little to no reason to take it over the Command. The ISD-2, meanwhile, gets a mean range buff over the 1 and I am therefore far more partial to taking it than the base variant

this widens the point gap to 14 points, which is surprisingly significant

oh, and Scottie, you vastly underestimate the power of nostalgia

I'll mostly echo your statements.

ISD-2 for me. I have a few corner cases where I'd take the ISD-1, but haven't had need to use it yet. I also did VSD-2 more often than not.

It is definitely a points sink though, especially if you aren't careful. One of the first major decisions I've found for list building now in wave 2 is whether or not to include a large ship. (I've not yet thought of doing 2, partly because that's all I have and am likely to have for a while) I find that if I include a large ship I'm either doing 3 ships and a handful of squadrons, or 4 ships and very minimal squadrons. I suspect those 2 general archetypes will suffer in activation advantage and deployment respectively.

I think the ISD is tough enough that it can handle itself, but it will definitely get focused down hard.

My favorite ISD build is the -2 with Intel Officer, Overload Pulse and Gunnery Team as the core.

Well, one ISD is nice, but 2 is better lol

played 2 + rhymerball and its pretty terrifying

At first glance the ISD-I seemed underwhelming, but I urge you to try it out.

3 red + 2 blue + 3 black on such a large, agile platform is a bargain.

Try not to sink too many upgrades into it - it's costly enough as it is:

- Needa is almost always a good buy, those 2 pts can save a lot of damage

- Gunnery teams, some think they are mandatory, some don't

I'll mostly echo your statements.

ISD-2 for me. I have a few corner cases where I'd take the ISD-1, but haven't had need to use it yet. I also did VSD-2 more often than not.

It is definitely a points sink though, especially if you aren't careful. One of the first major decisions I've found for list building now in wave 2 is whether or not to include a large ship. (I've not yet thought of doing 2, partly because that's all I have and am likely to have for a while) I find that if I include a large ship I'm either doing 3 ships and a handful of squadrons, or 4 ships and very minimal squadrons. I suspect those 2 general archetypes will suffer in activation advantage and deployment respectively.

I think the ISD is tough enough that it can handle itself, but it will definitely get focused down hard.

My favorite ISD build is the -2 with Intel Officer, Overload Pulse and Gunnery Team as the core.

Overload pulse is over-rated on a big ship low activation imperial list. Important to remember that the crit effect (OPulse) is resolved after the defender uses their tokens, and unless you have another ship to shoot at it or a (much less effective) side arc the value of overload pulse is limited. I have used it in a raider II supporting an ISD II with avenger to some good effect (raider runs in with conc fire to front arc 4 blue, screed crit, ISD avenger now shooting front arc at token-less ship: ship vapourizes) but getting that raider in position at the exact right time is a trick.

As for the ISD 1, it's 100% designed to be a slow-rolling carrier. Why else have 2 offensive upgrades?? Expanded Comms and Hangar bays, that's why, store a squadron token and that SOB can activate an entire rhymerball at long range by itself.

I might pick up a third ISD to run a crazy 3 ISD list with a small fighter screen. Crazy!

Well, one ISD is nice, but 2 is better lol

played 2 + rhymerball and its pretty terrifying

the problem with 2 ISD is that there's only one natural point of progression

I think the ISD is tough enough that it can handle itself, but it will definitely get focused down hard.

oh yeah, this in particular

it's a chuncky bastard, but Armada is well balanced and it will go down if focused like anything else (which is another part of why I far prefer the ISD-2's range)

The funny thing I noticed about Large v Large, ISD-2 versus Defiance in particular, is that it'll never ******* end. With both of us trundling around with ECM and gobs of total health, even 8 dice take forever to punch through those large frames. Once you add other ships to the equation, however, those tokens start to buckle.

I'd say Gunnery Teams are near mandatory for the ISD-II. On the ISD-I, I think there is a strong argument for using that slot for something else, such as Ordnance Experts. Having been on the receiving end of both, I'm actually more scared of the ISD-I. Black dice with re-rolls are no joke.

I'd say Gunnery Teams are near mandatory for the ISD-II. On the ISD-I, I think there is a strong argument for using that slot for something else, such as Ordnance Experts. Having been on the receiving end of both, I'm actually more scared of the ISD-I. Black dice with re-rolls are no joke.

I'd have to agree here

the effective 127 price point is ISD-2 only, just because of how much coverage its gob-smacking 8 dice get

ISD-1s probably don't need it because reduced range makes it far more situational. Not exactly sure how you'd outfit the ISD-1 at all, but I'd just start with Vader loitering around somewhere (probably on another ship) and Tractor Beams

Heh...scary looking, but two b wings , boosted comms and a few support bombers make it die.

Killed three isd over two games last weekend and "just barely " lost a nebulon. Running away with long range fighters meant the isd only gets to shoot in round four maybe with red, five with red and maybe blue. It's dead long before turn six.

Just saying...it's tough, but super cost inefficient. The game is designed around damage efficiency going downward as the ship gets larger. Example, assault frigate with three red costs 72. Mon cal with four red costs over 100. That's over thirty points for one side arc red die.

Yes other factors play like hull and shields, but pure damage efficiency focuses on small ships (read: squadrons)

Just my take

the game is not designed damage efficiency, it's designed around foresight

the big draw of the ISD-2 is that it doesn't matter how damage efficient the likes of the cr-90 are, because the ISD-2 will one-shot it very reliably; especially if it has squadrons.

the point about it going down to concentrated fire is incredibly legitimate, which is part of the "problem." You need squadrons with it, not just because of the amazing Squadron 4 (and how well flinging 4 squadrons synergizes with the ISD-2's ability to kill **** in a single activation) but because rebel bombers are powerful, and Yavaris with 2 Bs will exceed the ISD's damage potential

but this game is far too complex and nuanced to come down to a simple game of efficiency. FFG knows what they're doing, and has designed these large-ships to ruin your plans if not properly engaged. It's down to both players whether or not said proper engagement occurs

Do you think the ISD is stubby?

Heh...scary looking, but two b wings , boosted comms and a few support bombers make it die.

Killed three isd over two games last weekend and "just barely " lost a nebulon. Running away with long range fighters meant the isd only gets to shoot in round four maybe with red, five with red and maybe blue. It's dead long before turn six.

Just saying...it's tough, but super cost inefficient. The game is designed around damage efficiency going downward as the ship gets larger. Example, assault frigate with three red costs 72. Mon cal with four red costs over 100. That's over thirty points for one side arc red die.

Yes other factors play like hull and shields, but pure damage efficiency focuses on small ships (read: squadrons)

Just my take

I would question the skill and experience of your opponents.

I'm only saying this as someone who has had an ISD since sullust and only ever lost one in one game, but has also killed a good many. If you are "chasing" with an ISD you are doing it wrong.

There have only been 2 games where I had my ISD at speed 3, my very first game with it (which I sucked in) and the ONE time I allowed myself to chase a rebel objective ship (learned my lesson). As an imperial player that wants to field an ISD you have to A) be great at deploying them B) be great at supporting them. They are big point piñatas if played poorly and devastating if played correctly.

At first glance the ISD-I seemed underwhelming, but I urge you to try it out.

3 red + 2 blue + 3 black on such a large, agile platform is a bargain.

Try not to sink too many upgrades into it - it's costly enough as it is:

- Needa is almost always a good buy, those 2 pts can save a lot of damage

- Gunnery teams, some think they are mandatory, some don't

I concur that the ISD-I is fierce. With Vader (the way I tried it) you can rely on rerolling for an Accuracy, which when combined with XI7s just gets ugly fast with the big pool of dice. If you're running it as a gunship, you want to keep it as cheap as possible. XI7s and Tractor Beams would be all I'd consider mandatory with Vader. Without, I'd consider using that Weapon Team slot on Sensor Technicians (as you'll likely be rolling at least one blank with the 6 total red and black dice, so getting a reliable Accuracy is not that costly) or swapping over to Heavy Turbolaser Turrets.

As a carrier, the ISD-I can get a lot more expensive (Expanded Hangar Bays + Boosted Comms + Flight Controllers + squadron-support officer [Chiraneau or Wing Commander would be my vote]). I'm not entirely convinced on running the ISD-I as a carrier as it seems to want to get to grips with the enemy ASAP and this tends to cause problems in getting the most from your squadron commands and keeping your carrier alive.

for anyone wanting to run the ISD as a carrier, I'd recommend just running it without squadron upgrades. It really doesn't need them, and they tend to skew the ship unnecessarily (squadrons are potent enough as they are; all they need is a command)

Squadron 4 is more than enough to throw squadrons around; stuff like Hangars are just redundant (how many times will you really fling 5 squadrons?) and Flight Controllers commits you to being an anti-squadron ship rather than using bombers to compliment your 8-dice of death

leave the flight controllers + hangars to VSDs

same goes for the Mon Cal. At most, you'll want Boosted Comms to keep yourself at a distance (Independence if you built around it, ofc). Boosted Cooms are hilarious, especially since they don't bear down on enemies like ISDs or have Rhymer for incredible range

for anyone wanting to run the ISD as a carrier, I'd recommend just running it without squadron upgrades. It really doesn't need them, and they tend to skew the ship unnecessarily (squadrons are potent enough as they are; all they need is a command)

Squadron 4 is more than enough to throw squadrons around; stuff like Hangars are just redundant (how many times will you really fling 5 squadrons?) and Flight Controllers commits you to being an anti-squadron ship rather than using bombers to compliment your 8-dice of death

leave the flight controllers + hangars to VSDs

same goes for the Mon Cal. At most, you'll want Boosted Comms to keep yourself at a distance (Independence if you built around it, ofc)

for anyone wanting to run the ISD as a carrier, I'd recommend just running it without squadron upgrades. It really doesn't need them, and they tend to skew the ship unnecessarily (squadrons are potent enough as they are; all they need is a command)

Squadron 4 is more than enough to throw squadrons around; stuff like Hangars are just redundant (how many times will you really fling 5 squadrons?) and Flight Controllers commits you to being an anti-squadron ship rather than using bombers to compliment your 8-dice of death

leave the flight controllers + hangars to VSDs

same goes for the Mon Cal. At most, you'll want Boosted Comms to keep yourself at a distance (Independence if you built around it, ofc)

Um, tell that to the Home 1 I obliterated with a 6 bomber/2 firespray rhymerball. Squadron token/hangar and 1 long range activation meant all bombers in murder range exactly when I wanted them.

Don't discount other peoples strategies just cause you haven't tried them that's how nasty things like stale metas get started and suck the creativity out of list building and get people embarrassed when they turn off their brains and show up with predictable builds.

quite the opposite, in my experience

a lot of the doubt that occurred in wave 1 about squadrons seemed to come from those who skewed the crap out of squadrons and wondered why they weren't working, which led to the proliferation of no squadron builds

it is a danger in any system to want to go full-on perfectionist on a certain capability, and it's good to know that you don't need to do that at all with squadrons. They work just fine without going crazy on situational upgrades.

The real problem with the ISD is that you might end up having 400 points to build with, and having only 2 or 3 ships in your list now.

The real problem with the ISD is that you might end up having 400 points to build with, and having only 2 or 3 ships in your list now.

you can easily get 4, but then you have no squadrons. If you have squadrons, it's really hard to get 4

kinda the whole point of the OP

rebels have it easier with the Command Cruiser being fine as is, as well as incredible low(er) point options such as the TLRC cr-90 and various flavors of Neb

The balancing factor is simply opportunity cost through points.

For that very reason I don't foresee taking an ISD in any of my "serious" lists. I love my VSD-I, and being able to load it up with toys and an admiral before you even finish paying for your flagship is amazing.

If you're going to buy an ISD, you're going to severely impact either your activations or your squadrons. I roll with 3 ships with toys backed by full squadron presence: you simply can't make that happen with an ISD. Either token fighters, very few/weak ships, or some other grievous compromise.

Of course, I compromise on not having a deadly tank like the ISD...that is the insane beauty and genius of armada: it seems to be so well balanced that there simply isn't, and won't, be much in the way of auto-included. The only mention of that will be in specific lists.

Can't wait to play.

I hate to derail this thread fgd but I have a question and comment.

First, love the list. Looking at getting a bunch of games in this weekend with all the toys. Dano is inbound, and I'm all about experimenting with the rogue/bombers. That said, how are you finding pairing one ISD with two VSD? I can't get the VSD to work in comparison to GSD/ISD. Thoughts?