So I was fiddling around with this list:

Now, the idea was to have most of 4x4's strong points (high figure count, guards and officers), while being less hmm... let's say obvious, as I don't want to offend any sexual minority

So go ahead, give me your thoughts. Is the list any good in your oppinion? Would you change anything in command deck? What would it struggle against? Is 4x4 just better? All that and more is welcome

This is pretty much my favorite list. I have played the majority of my competitive Imperial Assault games with something very similar. I won the Dallas regional with this deployment card setup and a similar command deck. Personally, I had a mediocre performance at Worlds (3-4) with a very slight tweak to the list but someone else playing this list did make top 16.

I feel this list has a great game against most Rebel Blast lists, it puts out a generous amount consistent firepower at range and the Sabs tend to melt pretty quickly. Against 4x4, I've run about 50-50. I feel like the list makes it a game because it has enough consistent firepower to take down Royal Guard while still having a good amount of health to chew through. My toughest match-up is typically a Vader + 2 Royal Guard list (0-2 at Worlds). On a dead scenario where the opponent can force you to engage Vader things get dicey. The Elite Stormtroopers top out at five damage an attack (3 hits + 1 Surge) which has a hell of time doing any significant damage to Vader, even if he has no Royal Guard buddy. Even using Last Stand or Vader's Finest to focus the the Stormtroopers they top out at 7 Damage (5 hits + 1 Surge). Maybe my troubles with Vader lists are more my limitations than the list's; the player who was playing this list that went to top 16 in Worlds faced one Vader centric list and beat it in the swiss rounds.

The thing I like most about this list is that it hedges against swingy dice fairly well. The Stormtrooper reroll helps bad attack dice just as the Royal Guard protector helps against bad defensive dice. Taking these precautions make it much harder for your dice to decide the game for you.

Since Worlds I have played about 6 games with the below variant which adds a little punch to get through black dice + protector:

Elite Stormtrooper

Elite Stormtrooper

Elite Probe Droid

Elite Probe Droid

Royal Guard

Imperial Officer

Imperial Officer

Not certain it it's an improvement or not, but the Elite Probes really help against harder targets.

That one is really interesting and I'm definitely going to give it a spin, although I'm somewhat reluctant to give up another officer...

Where I see the problem is the command deck.

I was on the fence already when it comes to usage of New Orders in my deck - it's not that easy to set up as it is. With one less officer it would definitely be out, along with at least one Pummel. So that's two good cards out and 4 points to fill. 2 droids don't really bring anything useful - Hunter Protocol...? Maybe... I could fill with Emergency Aid + Stealth Tactics/Jump Jets but the command deck feels much worse in any case.

As to dealing with Vader - do we really need it so badly at this point? Yeah, matching against him in the scenario where he gets to be a bounty hunter (forgot the name) would suck tremendously, but others I feel it should be fine. And it's not like I cant kill him - there is a good amount of focuses ) around my list, and guard, trooper, even measly officer can hurt Vader easly.

i can't see this list to be any competition to 4x4 ...it is a solid list for sure...but I played against it 3 times with 4x4 and on no occasion it got close to have a chance on winning...4x4 can only lose to it if they forget to kill a full deployment of troopers in one turn...if you remember that...focus is wasted on the troopers and reinforcements also wasted...

Kinda hard to kill full group of Elite Stormtroopers when I don't move them all in one place. Also they are not so easy to wipe when they get protector from my own Guards.

Unless you are saying 4x4 starts by killing off my Guards. In this case we should be left with your 2 units of Guards +4 Officers vs my 2xElite Stormies (with all the Reinforcement cards you give me time to get to) +3xOfficer. At this point wiping 15 points of health in one go is even less likely, meaning I get to use those Reinforcements, meaning I should possibly have an edge.

I know it's a huge simplification, but on some level it really comes down to: are 4 Guards and an Officer better then 6 Elite Troopers and their superior cards? I'm not saying one way or the other, but I feel it should be pretty close at least.

Two notes:

We played "Most Dangerous Game" (the bounty hunter map) twice in the seven rounds at Worlds prelims. Both time were the Vader match up. Went south from there.

Xarathornx, 4x4 is the top list. I don't think you'll find much disagreement there. It has a pretty good match up against everything in the game. Top 2 at Worlds were both 4x4 piloted by excellent players. They had to beat a ton of Rebel Blast and other 4x4 (and variants) to get there. There are, however, other list options to play competitively, that can make 4x4 work for a game. I believe using the Elite Stormtroopers/Royal Guard backbone is one of them. Give 'em a spin. Get into the Move-Shoot-Move pattern and maximize your rerolls. I think you'll find this list has a lot of game.

i can't see this list to be any competition to 4x4 ...it is a solid list for sure...but I played against it 3 times with 4x4 and on no occasion it got close to have a chance on winning...4x4 can only lose to it if they forget to kill a full deployment of troopers in one turn...if you remember that...focus is wasted on the troopers and reinforcements also wasted...

Martin ... you are the german AND the world champion.

Just because noone gets close to have a chance on winning against YOUR 4x4 with this list ... with all respect ... do you really think, this is the reference for everyone else?

Well, I wasn't there, so noone to beat him

Next year tho... You watch it!

Xarathornx is one of the top 2 from the wm. In fact he is the champion. And he knows how to beat that list and know its tricks because we played (he with 4x4, me with those troopers) in the german nationals.

It is definitly possible to kill a elite trooper squad in one turn with 4x4 even with a good player piloting those troopers

. The guards just outrun your troopers and a guard has a much easier time taking out a trooper then the other way round.

It is a great list for sure, I would even say it is somewhere around Tier 1.5 and you can beat 4x4 a lot of times but not with superb piloting.

Well excuse me, if I don't cave to authority right away.

Fact is that it takes 2-3 attacks from a guard to kill a single trooper with protector. That means you need on average say... 7 guards to wipe a squad of troopers - that's 4 activations - I have plenty of time to make use of my focus that's for sure. That also means that it's only going to be possible earlygame, unless you get rid of my protector first - that seems like a smart thing to do too, because if you focus my troopers I get insane value from guards. But even then you are most likely gonna need 2 attacks to kill a trooper. Let's say 5 to wipe a squad. Again - 3 activations, plenty of time to make use of focus. But more importantly - if you focused on killing my guards first you probably don't even have that many left standing yourself. Officers will help, but I'm not staying still in the meantime - I should be able to take down someone before he activates.

What I'm trying to say is that even if somehow you wipe my first squad of troopers in one round there is almost no way the same trick will work on second, so I dismiss the argument that I won't be able to use Reinforcements as not true. Of course it's a dice game so results may vary, but on average I should be fine.

As to not being able to use my focus... I think it's pretty clearly not true as well.

So again,no disrespect there, I'm sure xarathornx is a mighty fine player, but those argumets are missed.

Oh, small disclaimer, when I write "you" in this post I mean "4x4 player". Not anyone in particular.

You make the assumption that the wipe has to go from full health to zero in one turn. That's not true. An unfocused RG does 3 or more dmg with at least 60% chance against an elite trooper. 84% Chance for two dmg, so you can count on 2 attacks to finish an elite trooper.

But why not take an attack on each trooper of a squad in one turn, then you have them half damaged but still alive at the end of the round. So no reinforcements there. Then in the next round finish them off. That's gonna happen more often then from full to zero.

Also the 4x4 lists gets more attacks through Parting Blow and even in late-game it is easily possible to increase the utility by using change of plans. Both are cards which are much more worth their points in a 4x4 then in this variant.

Like I said, it is not impossible to win against 4x4 with this but against good piloting and good played command cards your chances are very low with average rolls on both sides.

An unfocused RG does 3 or more dmg with at least 60% chance against an elite trooper.

That is just not true, unless You discount my Protector?

Why would I give an opportunity to ever use Parting Blow? It's not like I want to manouver to avoid blasts. Sure it might happen, when I'll see a definite advantage in leaving that space and risking it, but it's not like I walk blindly into it - I do know the card exists, I just think it's meh if opp knows what he is doing.

Change of Plans is a great card for sure, so is Grenadier

As to wounding entire squad instead of taking out one of them - I'd say Reinforcements did their job there, and best part is I don't even need to have it at this point.

Yes I discounted Protector there, sorry forget to note that.

The opponent can go next to your trooper with his guard, you can play that card agressivly.

A well played Change of plans is way more useful then one red die just because it is a strategic card vs a luck based card.

But maybe xarathornx will note some points on how a 4x4 deals with this list.

Its not only playing around Reinforcements with killing a trooper squad in 2 turns. Its also playing around Last Squad.

But I will take that list to a tournament this weekend, so I'm in favor for that list

I know xarathornx had some problems with this list the first time we met in the Swiss at the german nationals. In our rematch in the Top 4 he changed his strategy and played around the Troopers in a smart way. I don't remeber how he did it, but he did it.

But maybe we have a different take on the Command Deck, if you want to discuss that and compare feel free to send me a message

Unless I totally misunderstood Parting Blow it can only be used on my turn, when i voluntarily move out of that space. Can't say I see an easy way to play it proactively.

Best case scenario - Change of Plans gives You an opportunity to trade one RG attack for two, how is that even close to dealing ~6 damage?

I do agree that wounding my dudes, then killing them in one go might be better then the alternative, but still, they do get value of +1 attack/using Last Stand next turn, so it's not all peachy.

I too am looking forward to xaranthornx's say on this, that's the whole point of this thread - to get feedback on why some things work better, or at least why people think they do.

As to Command Deck - mine is out here, up for discussion, feel free to give me Your thoughts.

Actually - on that note: why is noone ever posting their Command decks? That is far more interesting than just deplyoyments, and a huge part of this game!

I for one would love a peek into World Champion's 4x4 deck.