Lyraesus did a good post on the threat envelope. On a Bwing its pretty decent because it's distance 2 THEN distance 1 (D1 is longer than the rest).

I find its no problem as gladiators seem to close the distance for me anyway

These slow squadrons are amazing against those "in your face" Imperial ships.

I posted this under a different heading, then saw this one. Has anyone tried using the M-80 Independence to get B-wings to the battle. I tried B-wings once before and swore I'd never use them again, but I think I'll try this combination and see how it works

Yep, that's basically what the Independence title is there for.

My bwing effort:

B wing list

Faction: Rebel Alliance

Points: 399/400

Commander: General Dodonna

Assault Objective: Precision Strike

Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault

Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57 points)

- Yavaris ( 5 points)

[ flagship ] MC80 Command Cruiser (106 points)

- General Dodonna ( 20 points)

- Independence ( 8 points)

- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)

- XI7 Turbolasers ( 6 points)

- Leading Shots ( 4 points)

MC30c Scout Frigate (69 points)

- Foresight ( 8 points)

- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)

- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)

4 B-Wing Squadrons ( 56 points)

1 YT-1300 ( 13 points)

1 HWK-290 ( 12 points)

1 YT-2400 ( 16 points)

Maybe change the yt2400 for something cheaper.

In the old X-wing PC games the various Starfighters/bombers had the following standard speed settings:

X-wing: 100 MGLT

Y-wing: 80 MGLT

A-wing: 120 MGLT

B-wing: 91 MGLT

Tie Fighter: 100 MGLT

Tie Interceptor: 110 MGLT

Tie Bomber: 60 MGLT

In the Star Wars Behind the scenes CD set for PC, the various Starfighters/bombers and starships had the following speed settings:

X-wing: 80 MGLT

Y-wing: 80 MGLT

A-wing: 120 MGLT

B-wing: 60 MGLT

Millinium Falcon: 80 MGLT

Mon Cal Cruiser: 60 MGLT

Corvette: 60 MGLT

Nebulon B: 40 MGLT

Tie Fighter: 100 MGLT

Tie Interceptor: 110 MGLT

Tie Bomber: 60 MGLT

Star Destroyer: 40 MGLT

It just goes to show, that it is somewhat a large difference from source to source, on how fast each Star Wars vehicles speed is.

I posted this under a different heading, then saw this one. Has anyone tried using the M-80 Independence to get B-wings to the battle. I tried B-wings once before and swore I'd never use them again, but I think I'll try this combination and see how it works

A buddy of mine runs this occasionally and it works pretty well. It works best when you're using Squadron commands on the Independence a lot and preferably with Boosted Comms and Adar Tallon (as Tallon can either let you attack twice in one turn with a squadron when activated normally or throws a B-Wing/Farlander speed 4 and then refreshes it for an attack later). You want to start issuing Squadron commands on turn 1, though, to get those B-Wings way up there.

You don't need the Independence to make B-Wings work, though. The main benefit of the Independence is it allows you to use B-Wings more aggressively. You can use B-Wings just fine as response bombers. Good use of B-Wings in wave 1 relied on simply getting them to where your opponent was going to be and then lighting him up with the mobile minefield. Works great with the Yavaris but requires some practice.

I posted this under a different heading, then saw this one. Has anyone tried using the M-80 Independence to get B-wings to the battle. I tried B-wings once before and swore I'd never use them again, but I think I'll try this combination and see how it works

I won the holiday Vassal Tourney with Independence, Yavaris, Salvation, 4 B-Wings, Wedge, Dutch, and Jan. Independence is invaluable when you're using B-Wings. They are the most lethal bomber in the game. Independence mitigates a major weakness, allowing you to position them on turn one or a turn 2 strike. I recommend using Garm as your admiral since Independence will need to be spamming the squadron command from the start.

In my mind all fighters should be faster then the fastest small ship. Really the slowest PT boats are faster then a DD and face it fighters in space battle games are PT boats and they should all fly circles around the ships.

One thing that could be added is the ability to dock fighters/bombers in the capital ships, until you need them. What a surprise it would be when a carrier

dumps it's bombers close to the action, instead of deploying them at a distance............Say a Assault frigate deploys 4 squadrons of B-Wings

at distance 2 from an imperial star destroyer. Now you have to deal with a capital ship at close range and a bunch of B-wings. I bought the Gozanti Assault Carrier for my X-wing game last week, so why not the same principal. Protect your fighters, bombers till you need them.

Then they deploy and attack.................risky yes, but a nasty surprise.

One thing that could be added is the ability to dock fighters/bombers in the capital ships, until you need them. What a surprise it would be when a carrier

dumps it's bombers close to the action, instead of deploying them at a distance............Say a Assault frigate deploys 4 squadrons of B-Wings

at distance 2 from an imperial star destroyer. Now you have to deal with a capital ship at close range and a bunch of B-wings. I bought the Gozanti Assault Carrier for my X-wing game last week, so why not the same principal. Protect your fighters, bombers till you need them.

Then they deploy and attack.................risky yes, but a nasty surprise.

This topic comes up from time to time and the general conclusion the forum comes to is that:

1. It would be a lot of new rules for fairly little game experience benefit.
2. Fluff-wise most Rebel ships are not actually carriers (as in they do not physically transport the squadrons, as the squadrons are usually planet-based and have hyperdrive engines and so jump in with the capital ships) and so it wouldn't make any sense for X-Wings to dock on capital ships with no hangar bay (like a CR90 or MC30c).

In my mind all fighters should be faster then the fastest small ship. Really the slowest PT boats are faster then a DD and face it fighters in space battle games are PT boats and they should all fly circles around the ships.

Space warfare doesn't need to apply all of the same principles as naval warfare. In fact, due to general inertia and lack of resistance in space, you don't have the same physics issues as you do in naval combat.

On a practical note, it doesn't really matter what your opinion of B-Wing speed is given that it's not going to change. It's better to direct your efforts towards improving with what is than wishing for what will never be.

One thing that could be added is the ability to dock fighters/bombers in the capital ships, until you need them. What a surprise it would be when a carrier

dumps it's bombers close to the action, instead of deploying them at a distance............Say a Assault frigate deploys 4 squadrons of B-Wings

at distance 2 from an imperial star destroyer. Now you have to deal with a capital ship at close range and a bunch of B-wings. I bought the Gozanti Assault Carrier for my X-wing game last week, so why not the same principal. Protect your fighters, bombers till you need them.

Then they deploy and attack.................risky yes, but a nasty surprise.

This topic comes up from time to time and the general conclusion the forum comes to is that:

1. It would be a lot of new rules for fairly little game experience benefit.
2. Fluff-wise most Rebel ships are not actually carriers (as in they do not physically transport the squadrons, as the squadrons are usually planet-based and have hyperdrive engines and so jump in with the capital ships) and so it wouldn't make any sense for X-Wings to dock on capital ships with no hangar bay (like a CR90 or MC30c).

In my mind all fighters should be faster then the fastest small ship. Really the slowest PT boats are faster then a DD and face it fighters in space battle games are PT boats and they should all fly circles around the ships.

Space warfare doesn't need to apply all of the same principles as naval warfare. In fact, due to general inertia and lack of resistance in space, you don't have the same physics issues as you do in naval combat.

On a practical note, it doesn't really matter what your opinion of B-Wing speed is given that it's not going to change. It's better to direct your efforts towards improving with what is than wishing for what will never be.

1) Most capital ships do have hangar bays. So yes they do transport fighters and bombers. Do you expect a x-wing pilot to stay in his/her cockpit over multiple jumps, especially if they are out for a long duration...........Try to imagine a pilot doing a 3 week duration jump while sitting in the cockpit for that time.........hope you have a big depends diaper and a hell of a pile of caffine pills. Also I play Saginami Sits and Attack Vector Tactical. Both games use Newtonian Physics. In space Newtonian Physics play a massive part in Naval Tactics. It is not just using thrust and vectors for movement control, but heat management, ballistics, and missile control. X-wing, Armada use a 2 dimensional game system, and are a simple game. Try managing a 7.3 million ton super dreadnought , plus her escorts in a 3d environment, using physics. Or better yet, in Avt , plan a fire plan for both rail guns and 2-4 missiles using

preplotting, engagement windows, all the while trying to maintain a target lock on the ship and also planning an evasion vector to avoid being hit. Also you have to figure in burn time , and fuel consumption. And remember as you burn fuel your actual mass decreases increasing your velocity.

Naval tactics depend on mastering Newtonian Physics, you have to plot your vectors, control your velocity, and pre plot your engagement window, all the while your opponent is doing the same. So X-wing Armada are great games but use a 2 dimensional system.

After reading Truthiness' report for the last Vassel tournament, I had to try the Independence/Yavaris/B-wing list. I ran Independence, Salvation, Yavaris, Jan, Keyan, three B's, and three X's against a pair of pretty decked out ISD IIs with Ozzel and 10 TIE fighters, and holy crap, those B's do a ton of damage when paired with Escort. You don't want ISDs anywhere near those things. Imps got tabled both times.

I'm hoping to try a similar list with Dodonna, a token-passing Tantive instead of Salvation, and a maxed-out fighter core (gotta squeeze Han in there somehow), but boy was it fun.

On a completely different note (which has nothing to do with the speed of B-wings), the new canon Rebels tv show featured a B-wing in an episode that aired a couple months back (but I only saw it today), which helps to explain their impressive firepower.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA3o_UpFn7E

Not sure black-blue adequate covers it...

Given the cost of bwings compared to others i think they should be speed 3

Can use name mc80 to give them speed 4 but you lose a attack. Or place them as far foward as possible

Nah, B-wings are fine. Fluff-wise, they're right where they're supposed to be; It's the rogues and Tie Bombers who are the anomaly*, not the B-wing. Balance-wise, they trade speed and hull-cost ratio for the highest anti-ship efficiency of any fighter, and they're more efficient at attacking squadrons than any other dedicated bomber.

Fluff-wise, weren't B-Wings the same speed as Y-Wings? I know I'm not the only one annoyed that X-wings are as fast as Y-wings.

In the X-wing games Y-wings went 80 SPACE SPEED and B-Wings went 75 ZOOM UNITS

Unless with Independence, B-Wings don't really have the speed to be an opening move asset, but they do pack the punch to be a late game finisher. Even Farlander's bonus heavily implies holding them back (at least being forced to) and jumping on the openings created by ships eventually going to close combat.

When paired with Yavaris, they perform superbly in anti-ship defensive duty (Yavaris is mainly a defensive title anyways, you hold your ground until the enemy comes and you punish him. Same goes for Wedge/dutch double tap with Yavaris, which is extremely punishing against TIEs).

I've seen several Imperial ships go down with 2 double taps from Yavaris and B-Wings, it's that good. Or being sufficiently damaged that the main ships finished them off without much issue.

Independence is what you use to counter other Rebel commanders. That and aggressive turning assists a lot.

I will test the following list Thursday so if you have any advice or recommendations I am open to them.

+++ Fight for Independence (398pts) +++

Kitted out Space Whale B - Assault Frigate Mark IIB (96pts) [boosted Comms (4pts), Electronic Countermeasures (7pts), Gunnery Team (7pts), XI7 Turbolasers (6pts)]

CR90 Corvette B (44pts) [sW-7 Ion Batteries (5pts)]

Independence - MC80 Command Cruiser (157pts) [boosted Comms (4pts), Electronic Countermeasures (7pts), Wing Commander (6pts), XI7 Turbolasers (6pts), •General Dodonna (20pts), •Independence (8pts)]

+ Squadrons (101pts) +

B-Wing Squadron (14pts)

B-Wing Squadron (14pts)

B-Wing Squadron (14pts)

B-Wing Squadron (14pts)

X-Wing Squadron (13pts)

X-Wing Squadron (13pts)

•Jan Ors (19pts)

+ Objectives +

Assault Objective [Precision Strike]

Defense Objective [Contested Outpost]

Navigation Objective [superior Positions]

Independence is what you use to counter other Rebel commanders. That and aggressive turning assists a lot.

I will test the following list Thursday so if you have any advice or recommendations I am open to them.

+++ Fight for Independence (398pts) +++

Kitted out Space Whale B - Assault Frigate Mark IIB (96pts) [boosted Comms (4pts), Electronic Countermeasures (7pts), Gunnery Team (7pts), XI7 Turbolasers (6pts)]

CR90 Corvette B (44pts) [sW-7 Ion Batteries (5pts)]

Independence - MC80 Command Cruiser (157pts) [boosted Comms (4pts), Electronic Countermeasures (7pts), Wing Commander (6pts), XI7 Turbolasers (6pts), •General Dodonna (20pts), •Independence (8pts)]

+ Squadrons (101pts) +

B-Wing Squadron (14pts)

B-Wing Squadron (14pts)

B-Wing Squadron (14pts)

B-Wing Squadron (14pts)

X-Wing Squadron (13pts)

X-Wing Squadron (13pts)

•Jan Ors (19pts)

+ Objectives +

Assault Objective [Precision Strike]

Defense Objective [Contested Outpost]

Navigation Objective [superior Positions]

I ran a similar list recently, just without the Wing Commander and Xi7s (heresy, I know) so I could pack in an extra squadron and upgrade a B to Keyan. I also had a CR-90B hiding in the back with Raymus and Tantive to hand out two tokens a turn to my AFII and MC-80, which is a nice way to get some added flexibility. It's the same point cost as a CR-90A with SW-7s (49), less range obviously, but can still contribute even if it's not regularly contributing anti-ship fire. It meant not taking Yavaris, which meant less burst damage from the B's, but I had three ships a lot longer than I usually do when Yavaris replaces the AFII or CR-90 and has to bulldoze into the fight.

Those are all small changes around the fringes, though. The big cheeses are Independence to get the B's attacking ships early, and Dodonna to maximize crits while you can land them. Everything else is mostly a side-show.

One thing I did have issue with at first was pacing in the opening round, so that my Speed 4 B's wouldn't outpace their 3-speed Escorts and be exposed to squadron fire. It's less of an issue if Independence is the last ship to activate, you're not facing Rogues that can pot-shot the B's in the squadron phase, and you have initiative in the following round so the X's can catch up. Otherwise it takes some thoughtful deployments, or restraint on the initial charge, or some other trick I haven't discovered yet. Good luck Thursday.

I took out the XI7's. It works great I think.

Can you explain how you hand two tokens a turn?

Can you explain how you hand two tokens a turn?

Via Raymus.

Raymus allows you to Gain a Token without Spending the Dial...

- Token Gained, and Passed on.

Then spending the Dial to get the Token

- Token Gained, and Passed on.

Can you explain how you hand two tokens a turn?

Via Raymus.

Raymus allows you to Gain a Token without Spending the Dial...

- Token Gained, and Passed on.

Then spending the Dial to get the Token

- Token Gained, and Passed on.

Interesting, I never though you could gain a second token this way. I thought that it would only apply to the token you automatically gain. But since, as you are activating, you choose in which order the events apply then I guess this is possible.

I am also not personally commenting on the legality of it, only on the process that I believe has been adhered to.

You can stack the order of abilities that have the same timing in whichever way you choose.

Precedent was set by Demolisher and Engine Techs

This isnt to bad mouth b wings. They are my favorite Starwars ship. Im just trying to figure out how to use them...

So Im not a big time player, played my first game in months over the weekend. It was my first time using B-wings.

B wings are so slow! Mine didnt do anything until the last round. They managed to help take out a Vic, but still.

Is there anyway to speed up bwings currently?

How do you properly use bwings?

MC80 with independence title and adar tallon , the thing to remember, is independace is "MAY increase there speed to 4" so you can move what you want at slow speed, or throw one at speed 4 and adar it (if needed) , first turn with independence you can pretty much throw the bwings where you need them, and later throw one at speed 4 and adar it after a fleeing almost dead ship thats activated

Just tried B-wings in a carrier fleet with independence and Tallon. They were supported by x-wings and and a couple A-wing squadrons. They ran into a howl runner ball and my opponent made sure to kill every squadron Tallon toggled before it could activate in the squadron round. All that the B-wings seemed to accomplish was to commit me to use the squadron command and force my opponent to do the same. After careful review I plan to continue to us Y-wings as my as my bomber of choice.

Just tried B-wings in a carrier fleet with independence and Tallon. They were supported by x-wings and and a couple A-wing squadrons. They ran into a howl runner ball and my opponent made sure to kill every squadron Tallon toggled before it could activate in the squadron round.

Not to attack you personally or anything, because I don't know you and wasn't there, but it sounds to me like the issue was unsupported squadrons more than the B-wings. You shouldn't generally be relying on activating during the squadron phase, particularly during the initial fighter clash when the crucial alpha strikes are happening.

All that the B-wings seemed to accomplish was to commit me to use the squadron command and force my opponent to do the same. After careful review I plan to continue to us Y-wings as my as my bomber of choice.

If you're facing squadron-on-squadron combat, you usually should be squadron commanding regardless of the type of squadron, if for no other reason than to get your shots off on the adversary before they get shots on you. The incredible importance of the alpha strike on unactivated squadrons cannot be overstated, IMO: each unactivated fighter you kill is 2-6 fewer dice getting thrown at you; each unactivated fighter you lose is 2-6 fewer dice you get to throw.

Also worth noting is that you need to be careful not to overextend your bombers with Indy (not saying you did, cause again, I don't know). Leaving 4 B-wings out to dry with no interceptor/escort support is going to get you nothing but dead B-wings.