First of all, this is my first post to these forums! I've been gaming for nearly 30 years now, and the FFG line has me really jazzed! The dice are just awesome, and I've already got a group of Star Wars fans/gamers ready to play in a week or two.

With that in mind, ben reading the book, and I'm wondering, what are the benchmarks for this system? Like, what are the XP amounts that are had by, say, a seasoned person or a veteran one (to use an example)? I see what skills mean in terms of competency, but, how much XP would be "good" for a group of veteran mercenaries coming out of retirement from the Clone Wars?

I'm not asking for this particular game coming up (I plan to use the rules and amounts as is, as I like to that when I run a game for the first time). But in general. Like, if I want to stat up an NPC (sometimes like to do so as a thought exercise and to mess with rules and stuff), how much XP to try out, like, a novice, a vet, an expert, or whatever? Are there benchmarks in the Edge book and I simply missed them?

First off, welcome to the forums. It's nice here.

Second, the only real benchmark is "knight level," which is defined at 150 XP. It's kind of the equivalent to starting a D&D/Pathfinder game at level 5. It was first mentioned in the Force and Destiny beta as a recommended level for anyone wanting to start with a lightsaber.

Honestly though, this system is really good at not having XP be everything. If you're looking for ways to approximate the challenge level of your players, the best way is to hit them with low-level stuff -- a few mooks in a cantina brawl, say -- and then ramp up the difficulty. For minions, the only way to increase the challenge should be to increase their numbers; a good rival should be able to go toe-to-toe with one or two PCs but be outclassed by the entire group, and a proper nemesis should be able to hold her own against the entire group (but make sure you give her two initiative slots).

FFG's system really supports trial and error with the back-end stuff, so don't worry too much about overdoing it. After all, it's really hard to kill PCs in this system unless you're trying, and even then it's not guaranteed.

Rather than looking at XP, look at dice pools. A starting shooter with a dice pool of YGG will be "okay"...once they build that up to YYYG they'll be very good. Of course, the player might spend all their XP on a particular set of skills, ignoring everything else, so they might be an awesome shot, but can't spot an ambush and are always suffering from fear. So the "benchmarks" are very much dependent on the context.

Rather than looking at XP, look at dice pools. A starting shooter with a dice pool of YGG will be "okay"...once they build that up to YYYG they'll be very good. Of course, the player might spend all their XP on a particular set of skills, ignoring everything else, so they might be an awesome shot, but can't spot an ambush and are always suffering from fear. So the "benchmarks" are very much dependent on the context.

That's true. Actually, I've just understood (and reread) the sections on things like Fear and Strain and such not. So, there are plenty of ways a character can be "optimized" but not quite enough. Which I DO like! And I'm digging the narrativist elements a lot, of course. Thanks for that.

First off, welcome to the forums. It's nice here.

Second, the only real benchmark is "knight level," which is defined at 150 XP. It's kind of the equivalent to starting a D&D/Pathfinder game at level 5. It was first mentioned in the Force and Destiny beta as a recommended level for anyone wanting to start with a lightsaber.

Honestly though, this system is really good at not having XP be everything. If you're looking for ways to approximate the challenge level of your players, the best way is to hit them with low-level stuff -- a few mooks in a cantina brawl, say -- and then ramp up the difficulty. For minions, the only way to increase the challenge should be to increase their numbers; a good rival should be able to go toe-to-toe with one or two PCs but be outclassed by the entire group, and a proper nemesis should be able to hold her own against the entire group (but make sure you give her two initiative slots).

FFG's system really supports trial and error with the back-end stuff, so don't worry too much about overdoing it. After all, it's really hard to kill PCs in this system unless you're trying, and even then it's not guaranteed.

Thanks for the welcome!

I see, about the Knight level thing. Something to think on, and might serve well for my little experimental character making. Looks like my first game of this will be in two weeks, so I've got some time to mess around with builds. Just to get a good feel, and of course, to be able to help my players better with their own characters when we make them in the first session.

If you have the money, the beginner box set is worth the price. Comes with several pregens (more as PDF downloads from the product Support page), an extra set of dice, and a good PDF follow up adventure. It will give you an idea what a good starting character would look like. Just note some shortcuts were made for the beginner box (e.g.: only one Knowledge skill), but otherwise a good guide.

Depends on how broad a span of cometency you are looking for. A starting PC laser focused can be excellent at a single characteristic's focus at the price of other skills. A PC with 300 xp who is a Force user might not be terribly amazing at anything if they're raising Lightsaber, Force powers, & skills as they progress.

Like Senior Frog said, there's really no benchmarks in the system, that you kind of have to eyeball it.

That said, depending on how you build the character (how many careers you pick up and all), you could easily drop a thousand points and still not be done with the concept. For fun I adapted my old WEG character to the system one day, and he was pretty advanced - Plenty of 7D and 8D skills, one 10D and so on. I think I was something in the neighborhood of 800 points before I was getting close to satisfied with the translation.

For further consideration, my current character is sporting 4 career trees, is about 650 points and nowhere near done.

Honestly though, this system is really good at not having XP be everything. If you're looking for ways to approximate the challenge level of your players, the best way is to hit them with low-level stuff -- a few mooks in a cantina brawl, say -- and then ramp up the difficulty. For minions, the only way to increase the challenge should be to increase their numbers; a good rival should be able to go toe-to-toe with one or two PCs but be outclassed by the entire group, and a proper nemesis should be able to hold her own against the entire group (but make sure you give her two initiative slots).

I see, about the Knight level thing. Something to think on, and might serve well for my little experimental character making.

The “knight level” concept actually comes from the “Force and Destiny” line, and IMO 150xp added on top of the standard chargen is not enough to make a Jedi Knight. Maybe a Padawan, but not a Knight.

Likewise, for 150xp additional in EotE or AoR, you might be able to make a teenage Boba Fett or a Storm Trooper Sergeant, but you’re not going to make the adult Jango or Boba Fett, nor are you going to make Captain Rex.

In our F&D group, we started out at “Knight Level”, and have had several sessions since then. I think we’ve added a total of 250-300xp on top of chargen, and we’re just now starting to feel like we might be able to pass as young Jedi Knights — maybe the same level as Obiwan in Episode 1, when Qui-Gonn said that he was ready to take the trials.

However, in our case, only one of us is trained with lightsabers, and he has several ranks of Parry but not Reflect, so maybe that’s not quite a fair comparison.

I see, about the Knight level thing. Something to think on, and might serve well for my little experimental character making.

The “knight level” concept actually comes from the “Force and Destiny” line, and IMO 150xp added on top of the standard chargen is not enough to make a Jedi Knight. Maybe a Padawan, but not a Knight.

Likewise, for 150xp additional in EotE or AoR, you might be able to make a teenage Boba Fett or a Storm Trooper Sergeant, but you’re not going to make the adult Jango or Boba Fett, nor are you going to make Captain Rex.

I think the name's misleading. I doubt FFG really meant for 150 XP to be equivalent experience to a Jedi Knight, I think it was just supposed to be a quick start method of getting closer to that.

There are two general scales for "level". The first is XP and I tend to find the progression to roughly be in 150xp blocks. The first block is the character just getting their legs, the second is they're reasonably competent in their area of expertise, the third block gives them either solid diversity or laser focus, blocks beyond tend to be fillers. Once a player has hit the 4-500xp level (post creation), they're pretty much done with building to their primary focus and working on expanding into other areas. For Force users, though, the blocks are really more 200-250xp in size as Force abilities tend to divert a good bit of XP from skills and talents.

The second scale is dice pools and is based upon disparity between ability vs difficulty. Out of the gate, 3 dice are good at 1 die challenges, okay at 2 die challenges and a crap shoot at 3 die challenges. Four dice move that scale up by one (good at 2, okay at 3, 50/50 at 4). As the characters progress up the scale, the challenges need to progress commensurately otherwise success becomes almost guaranteed. Playing into this is the skill ranks which I tend to categorize as: 1 - basic training, 2 - intermediate training, 3 - advanced training, 4 - mastery, 5 - expert. As the character advances in skill, they naturally add dice (which is much more important and valuable than upgrading) and they move up the difficulty tree as initially outlined.

I see, about the Knight level thing. Something to think on, and might serve well for my little experimental character making.

The “knight level” concept actually comes from the “Force and Destiny” line, and IMO 150xp added on top of the standard chargen is not enough to make a Jedi Knight. Maybe a Padawan, but not a Knight.

Likewise, for 150xp additional in EotE or AoR, you might be able to make a teenage Boba Fett or a Storm Trooper Sergeant, but you’re not going to make the adult Jango or Boba Fett, nor are you going to make Captain Rex.

I think the name's misleading. I doubt FFG really meant for 150 XP to be equivalent experience to a Jedi Knight, I think it was just supposed to be a quick start method of getting closer to that.

The GM section in the F&D core that discusses Knight Level says that it can/should put the character on the cusp of the skill/ability of a Jedi Knight.

The GM section in the F&D core that discusses Knight Level says that it can/should put the character on the cusp of the skill/ability of a Jedi Knight.

The GM section in the F&D core is dead wrong about that

The GM section in the F&D core that discusses Knight Level says that it can/should put the character on the cusp of the skill/ability of a Jedi Knight.

The GM section in the F&D core is dead wrong about that

I'm afraid I disagree. With that 150 XP, I was able to throw together a Soresu Defender who is very competent. Well-rounded in skills, plenty of Soak, Wounds and Strain, with Reflect, Parry and Improved Parry. A little bit of Enhance, and enough Sense upgrades that the first two attacks against him suffer two difficulty upgrades. Add in Defensive Stance and he becomes a decent duelist, as melee attacks against him are rolling 2 reds and a purple, and if they generate enough threat or a despair, he can immediately riposte with his lightsaber.

So, no, he's not on par with Kenobi or Anakin from the Prequels, or the teenagers from The Clone Wars. But then, I think of the Prequels as the Braveheart of Star Wars. The names are there, the general Big Event happened, but nearly every detail I regard as nonsense. I'd say he might be on par with Luke between Empire and Jedi. So, like the book suggests, right on the cusp of knighthood, but with ever so much more to learn.

I'm afraid I disagree. With that 150 XP, I was able to throw together a Soresu Defender who is very competent. Well-rounded in skills, plenty of Soak, Wounds and Strain, with Reflect, Parry and Improved Parry. A little bit of Enhance, and enough Sense upgrades that the first two attacks against him suffer two difficulty upgrades. Add in Defensive Stance and he becomes a decent duelist, as melee attacks against him are rolling 2 reds and a purple, and if they generate enough threat or a despair, he can immediately riposte with his lightsaber.

IMO, that’s a good description of a seasoned Padawan, but not yet a Knight.

In my book, to be a Knight-level type, you need to have at least FR2 and to either be far down the tree in your one career so far with a lot of points in powers (at least one with the Mastery upgrade, or just one step away from that), or you need to have largely completed one Spec tree and be well into the second one.

So, for me, you’d probably need 200-250 earned XP on top of chargen in order to qualify as a Knight.

If you want to talk about examples, Obiwan in TPM would qualify as a seasoned padawan, but not yet a Knight. Anakin isn’t a Knight until the beginning of RotS. Luke isn’t a Knight until he defeats Vader in RotJ.

Of course, that’s all IMO. So, YMMV, of course. And so on.

I'll second Bradknowles. At 150 points you will not be feeling very Jedi Knight like. Force users are point sinks, and to be competent at using the force, a light sabre, and having some ok skills to actually do things, takes a lot more experience.

Personally I think 300 feels like base competencey. Which is a fair amount, but they were trained since they were children. It shouldn't feel like something you just pick up.