I was toying with the idea of using Echo to replace Whisper in a list to be able to add an upgrade to a different ship. (The two matches I tried, long ago, I failed miserably at flying her. The last time being that I decloaked and my maneuver placed me perfectly in front of 2 Tie Defenders - Vessery & Brath's white K turn. Some garbled transmission of "it came from behind... auuuuugh!")

However, the few videos that I found of her within the last year, she typically died quickly, except for one where she was paired with Whisper as well. I know flying her is a lot harder, but for competitive play, is she even viable? Her amazing ARC dodging means very little against a high PS turreted ship. That can throw a ton of dice at her 2 agility.

Have you seen anyone using her with great success? Specifically in a store championship/regional setting?

I prefer Echo. She has twice as many options to decloak which is vital since the "nerf" has made phantoms harder to fly. I enjoy the different angles of attacks only she provides.

the real reason Echo cant compete in the same way is that even though her ability is arguably better, she cant get PS9. therefore she moves before the common ace pilots, and cant re-cloak before they kill her.

the real reason Echo cant compete in the same way is that even though her ability is arguably better, she cant get PS9. therefore she moves before the common ace pilots, and cant re-cloak before they kill her.

That's why you need to use her ability to move to places where the PS9+ aces can literally not shoot her no matter their movement. Echo's real weakness is PS9+ turrets. Soontir isn't as big a deal as Soontir - unlike Echo - cannot move backwards.

only ace that Echo Fears that isnt a PWT or TLT scrub, is Jake Farrell, the Dial is just so good, and with VI and PTL he's maneuverable like no other. I had my Echo taken down by a Jake just yesterday after trying to ditch him in an asteroid Field. ended up winning that game, but that was because i rolled red dice like a boss.

I love Echo, especially if I know my opponent is scum. That variety of attack cannot be overstated.

the real reason Echo cant compete in the same way is that even though her ability is arguably better, she cant get PS9. therefore she moves before the common ace pilots, and cant re-cloak before they kill her.

That's why you need to use her ability to move to places where the PS9+ aces can literally not shoot her no matter their movement. Echo's real weakness is PS9+ turrets. Soontir isn't as big a deal as Soontir - unlike Echo - cannot move backwards.

not possible if your opponent isn't an idiot. sure you can do it for a turn or two against a single ace, but the usual Soontir-Vader combo will trap you with ease

the real reason Echo cant compete in the same way is that even though her ability is arguably better, she cant get PS9. therefore she moves before the common ace pilots, and cant re-cloak before they kill her.

That's why you need to use her ability to move to places where the PS9+ aces can literally not shoot her no matter their movement. Echo's real weakness is PS9+ turrets. Soontir isn't as big a deal as Soontir - unlike Echo - cannot move backwards.

not possible if your opponent isn't an idiot. sure you can do it for a turn or two against a single ace, but the usual Soontir-Vader combo will trap you with ease

but echo is only 1/3-1/2 the list, if they make that much of a commitment to one ship you still have 2-4 other ships pew pewing those aces. a game of Chase the Echo never ends well.... just like a game of Chase the Fel.

Also it should be noted in a TLT meta Whisper's ability should not be dismissed. that extra focus can be a life saver against those 6 red dice being thrown at you. if you KNOW you'll be facing a TLT i'd recommend Rec Spec with Whisper. more focus the better. 4 green dice Will fail you eventually especially when unmodified.

Run her with a gunner Vader Decimator to clear out ps9 squishies and she does alright. I'm considering just that list for league this week.

Run her with a gunner Vader Decimator to clear out ps9 squishies and she does alright. I'm considering just that list for league this week.

be a masochist run Chirp with Gunner vader VI. fel aint got nothing.

Run her with a gunner Vader Decimator to clear out ps9 squishies and she does alright. I'm considering just that list for league this week.

be a masochist run Chirp with Gunner vader VI. fel aint got nothing.

I go hard like that.

if not go Oic with Gunner vader and Jade. and ion Projectors

the real reason Echo cant compete in the same way is that even though her ability is arguably better, she cant get PS9. therefore she moves before the common ace pilots, and cant re-cloak before they kill her.

That's why you need to use her ability to move to places where the PS9+ aces can literally not shoot her no matter their movement. Echo's real weakness is PS9+ turrets. Soontir isn't as big a deal as Soontir - unlike Echo - cannot move backwards.

not possible if your opponent isn't an idiot. sure you can do it for a turn or two against a single ace, but the usual Soontir-Vader combo will trap you with ease

That's...not really an argument.

Regardless of player skill Echo can do things that literally no other ship can. At close range, Soontir can't turn around that well. Echo can turn around VERY well and can go many places that Soontir can't. At range, Soontir can more easily keep Echo in arc.

As to your second point, I would HOPE that 70+ points worth of ships would be able to trap and kill a single 40-point ship. If you can't, than you would have other more serious problems that need addressing.

I think echo can hide from Fel for a long time, but I doubt Echo's ability to actually land hits on Fel in a 1v1 scenario. I guess just surviving for the modified win is a sort of plan.

I think echo can hide from Fel for a long time, but I doubt Echo's ability to actually land hits on Fel in a 1v1 scenario. I guess just surviving for the modified win is a sort of plan.

thats where Echo's build comes in to Play, I often run with Rebel Captive and FCS. both of which can help neuter Fel. RC because Double Stress means a turn of no Actions (assuming Fel gets a shot.) and FCS because 4 > 3 and Fickle Green Dice are Fickle (even if its 4v4 its still better for the 4 Red.)

I like whisper a lot more. To get a Target Lock, cloak and a focus after hitting someone means you will have that much better chance to survive if you ended up in a tough spot. Plus Echo is so hard to judge the angles sometimes and has screwed me over.

I like whisper a lot more. To get a Target Lock, cloak and a focus after hitting someone means you will have that much better chance to survive if you ended up in a tough spot. Plus Echo is so hard to judge the angles sometimes and has screwed me over.

Rome was not Built in one day. I have used Echo's ability to block and deny abilities then Turn around and get shots on that target more often than I can count (like 5 times, but its high value)

with 6 potential Decloak directions, plus the Flexibility of Front to back, front to front ect. it just takes some time of getting used to.

I like to pair Echo with another Ace so my opponent has to decide. no one likes having to decide.

my problem with echo is time. plain and simple time.

it's fun to manouver her wildly across the table, but depending on the opponent, you (I..) prefer to not shoot quite often (or can't because PS dodges) and rather cloak for the attack run next turn.

in a 75min tournament game, whisper is just so.much.more.easy to use;

manouver,evade,dakka-something-to-death,dakka-again-if-missed, slap focus and cloak tokens on. job's a good un'

simpler and way more efficient in a timed game.

so sadly no echo for me on tourney-day.

I went through the list for Worlds (Top 32) and Nationals and only one person used Echo. "They" (no person was identified) were from New Zealand and scored 9th overall (New Zealand seemed to love the Empire, which is a good thing.)

I know my skill flying her currently isn't there... yet, but I have gotten pretty good with Whisper and hopefully that can translate over to Echo as well. I'm just worried about the PS8's and 9's killing her off while she is uncloaked. I wonder if the best players in the world choose not to use her for the same reason.

I went through the list for Worlds (Top 32) and Nationals and only one person used Echo. "They" (no person was identified) were from New Zealand and scored 9th overall (New Zealand seemed to love the Empire, which is a good thing.)

I know my skill flying her currently isn't there... yet, but I have gotten pretty good with Whisper and hopefully that can translate over to Echo as well. I'm just worried about the PS8's and 9's killing her off while she is uncloaked. I wonder if the best players in the world choose not to use her for the same reason.

thats not the only reason, the threat of TLT's around every corner terrifies a Phantom, with Whisper you also get a free focus! so if you focused for your action, and didnt use it, you have 2 foci allowing more chances at not being explodified by the barrage of red dice.

I'm just worried about the PS8's and 9's killing her off while she is uncloaked. I wonder if the best players in the world choose not to use her for the same reason.

That, stress, and green dice.