Hi guys, I tried searching on the forums but couldn't find any answer to my question.

The old multiplied by 2, 3 etc, which made creatures pretty tough, and the new ones just add a number.

I've been looking in older DH books and Rouge Trader and I've found some cool creatures that I would like to throw at the PC's some time. But those creatures are kind of tough with x2 and x3 on their toughness attribute.

Does anyone know how to convert the old UC to the new ones?

I thought about just adding +2 for x2, +3 for x3 etc, but that made them not so tought anymore, I would like to find a middle way. The closest I came up with was to just multiply the old multiplier by 2 and add that to the attribute, so a x2 would get +4, x3=+6 etc. What do you guys think about that?

I think that's the right way to convert this over. If we look at Chaos Space Marines in they get +4 instead of Deathwatches x2 so assuming +2 per Point is a good.

I usually go for a strait conversion: x2=+2 and so on, if the result isn't in line with what i have in mind i add a further +2.

Keep in mind that the old xN was totally broken especially for wp and psykers or toughness, it was very easy to have creatures almost immune to damage, in anycase ffg seems to convert direcly xN with +N. Just follow your idea of what should be a certain creature, you can use other games supplements too like from black crusade that uses the same unnatural stats system.

Astartes got +4 instead of +2, so no, FFG doesn't convert all this directly. But generally, that's a good start.

But yeah, transform * by +, and add 2 in the end if the result wasn't enough seems like a generally sound practice.

Thanks for the input guys, I'll just go with exchanging * with + and adjust if needed

Only War - and possibly Black Crusade - both have rules for converting Traits from older lines.

" A good rule of thumb is that a 3-5 point increase to a Characteristic Bonus is functionally equivalent to the level of the ‘old’ Unnatural Characteristics values."

Only War - and possibly Black Crusade - both have rules for converting Traits from older lines.

" A good rule of thumb is that a 3-5 point increase to a Characteristic Bonus is functionally equivalent to the level of the ‘old’ Unnatural Characteristics values."

Thanks, I have those books as well, didn't know they had conversion rules

Astartes got +4 instead of +2, so no, FFG doesn't convert all this directly. But generally, that's a good start.

But yeah, transform * by +, and add 2 in the end if the result wasn't enough seems like a generally sound practice.

Depends, for ex. Eldars from x3 agi were converted to +3.

Anyway i suggest to avoid huge numbers for CB, they created too much problems in 1st ed.

You don't need to convert the trait, just use it as a x2 or x3 multiplier. It is creatures that you are throwing at the players, they can have any kind of traits you like, including traits from previous version of the game.

Depends, for ex. Eldars from x3 agi were converted to +3.

Hmmm, not sure about that. If I remeber well, they had high Ag (like 50) and had Unnatural *2, not *3, except maybe very strong characters (Autarch and such).

Depends, for ex. Eldars from x3 agi were converted to +3.

Hmmm, not sure about that. If I remeber well, they had high Ag (like 50) and had Unnatural *2, not *3, except maybe very strong characters (Autarch and such).

you insinuated doubt in me XD

i went to check and actually we are both right, depends on the book: in rogue trader "soul reaver" supplement dark eldars have by default x2 Agi while bigger characters have x3, in only war there's no distinction and every dark eldar has a +3 Agi, same is in black crusade. I remembered Archons, Haemunculi and so on having x3 and that's right but seems that lower eldars are statted with x2.

Comparing various manual i have to say that i was wrong, seems that ffg actually tries to keep the final CB as a rule to convert unnatural characteristics at least for most creatures. So if the old system had a creature with 50 of strenght and x2 of unnatural strenght in the new system is 50 strenght and +5 unnatural strenght as a rule of thumb, then they add or subtract 1 or 2 points if needed.

The other way to convert is to take the old toughness bonus and then rework the unnatural from that. So a DW marine with toughness 60x2 would have a TB 12. Converted he would be tough 60 +6 unnatural.

In the end you're the one setting the difficulty level so you can make it whatever you want.

Especially on toughness i would advise to consider the final soak level, it's easy to convert TB and find during a fight that between TB, armor and other traits like daemonic the result is virtual immunity from damage. Depending on the creature is good to work backwards deciding how much punishment it can take then figuring out how the final soak is composed.