hey guys,

so with Wave 2 coming around and the new squadron 'meta' (whether it be on the game overall or referring to how one includes them in fleets) on the horizon, I was wondering how best to approach list building with them

of course, the number and types of squadrons will always differ pending on the fleet's Squadron capacity and how heavily invested they are in making squadrons work, but trying to put a number on how many one can expect to face would alleviate a lot of list building uncertainty.

The most I can supply as a concrete standard is this: you need two squadrons in order to influence deployment (if you're left with just one squadron, the rules mandate you deploy it last). Unless it's something incredibly integral (like Jan), I doubt we'll be seeing odd numbers of squadrons all that often.

Speaking personally, my time during the Wave 1 ermagod-Gencon Special!!! meta has made my magic # out to be 4. Wherever I went, 3 Bs and 1 Keyan would follow. 4 was also the magic number of B-wings you needed to one-round a GSD with a Neb's supporting fire (well, 2 with Yavaris but you get the idea)

As such, I try to build most of my fleets towards 4 squadrons with B-wing levels of firepower (which leaves just Bs, Silly H-6s, and possibly Firesprays) which, when levied by the new large ships and their perfect Squadron 4, should prove to be pretty **** painful. This leads me to want to try things such as

ye ole 4 Bs + Jan (odd #s, noooooooooooo!) with Independence

3 Silly H-6s + 3 A-wings with Defiance(you try fitting in 4 Sillies; it's bloody difficult!)

Dash + 3 YT-2400s tagging along a MM CR-90 and Shrimp fleet

Bossk + 3 Firesprays complimenting 3 burly star destroyers

but with a local buddy threatening to troll with howlrunner + dengar interceptors (Counter 4), I can never be too certain. Good thing I was already planning to run Escort Nebs, eh?

how're you all approaching the vast new wealth of possibilities in Wave 2?

I'm aiming for 8-10 on the Imperial side. I've come around to regular TIEs. For 64-80ish points, I can pack 8-10 of them and still have ~80% of my fleet points for commander/ships/upgrades, which is a comfortable three ship build or a lightly-upgraded four ship build. Upgrade a few of them to TIE bombers for a handful more points, and there's some anti-ship damage and staying power. Dengar-Howlrunner Interceptors still won't be fun, but at least they're easy to pop with Raiders.

It's possible to bring some more heavy hitters in (some combination of Rhymer, Dengar, IG-88 and Firesprays usually) if the model count drops to 6-8, though at that point I start to worry about running into squadron-heavy builds. For some reason I'm in love with the idea of having 12-14 models or so on the table. The fact that it helps with deployment and should buy me at least a couple of turns of protection from squadron-heavy builds (due to the sheer number of fighters, coupled with a pair of Raiders) is just a plus.

For rebels, I've settled into 6-8 squadron lists (some mix of A's, X's, and B's usually), though I struggle with building a list around them that has more than three serviceable ships.

One of these days I will work up the courage to leave my upgrade-card security blanket behind and try a four-ship, sixteen TIE build... someday...

I'm going for a (semi) canon fighter complement: For my ISD-II that means 2 tie fighter squadrons, 2 tie interceptor squadrons, 1 tie defender squadron (using the advanced rules until they get their own rules), 1 tie bomber squadron and 1 assault gunboat squadron (using the tie bomber rules until they get their own rules), for my VSD-II it's a single tie fighter squadron and a single tie bomber squadron. So the total is 6 fighter squadrons and 3 bomber squadrons. That's 400 points unfortunately

In wave one I tended to go for a mass of a single type of ship, B or A wings generaly. In wave two I'm going for packages of different ships that are activated together and fulfil a specific task as a group, so as an example a HWK, xwing and a couple of fast bombers.

I'm still capping out around 70 points per build. I've yet to want to go further... But then again, I'm still stuck with Wave 1... Friggin FedEx.

But I'd prefer ship upgrades/choices over squads 99% of the time. I've been burnt by squad heavy builds enough to not want to play that. I'm usually running 4 TIE's and 2 Advanced.

My approach has been strictly MAX points for squadrons, then fitting the squadron command ability around the squads I choose.

My reason is twofold; squadrons are epically powerful against ships (math to follow later), and, there has to be an integral reason ffg capped the squadrons at 1/3 (back to first point of epicness)

I've been focused on Rebs of late and my standard build at 134 points is:

4x b wings

1x yt 1300

1x a wing

Jan

Dutch

Wedge

Six of these are bombers. Dutch and wedge alone can ace any single squad in one volley and provide significant ant squad and ship power. Jan, the 1300 and the b wings hammer capital ships. The a wing races to intercept stray bomber groups, and generally react to things.

My ship build is 3x assault frigates with boosted comms to fully command and support them.

Working great so far

Generally max points for me...as I've defended time and again in Wave 1.

Essentially I like to go with ~50% superiority fighters, ~25% Flex fighters, ~25% Bombers. Raw numbers looks to be about 10 for imperials, give or take 2; and 6-8 with rebels.

This allows me to:

A. Dispatch 75% of my squadrons to combat 100% squadron-focused enemy lists and, while not likely to outright win, still have a decent bomber strike force.

B. Dispatch 50-75% of my squadrons to deal with similar forces that I want to overwhelm quickly and be sure to get their points and not let them get many.

C. Dispatch 50% of my squadrons to stomp their token squadron force while the other 50% bombs what I need.

D. Squadron-less builds get wrecked by 10 individual dice rolls

I prefer empire so that my superiority force is manipulatively enhanced in power so that my 50% portion (TIEs backed by Howl and Dengar) are really, really beefy when used to engage other fighters.

well, we're only four posts in and already we got some wild variance

wave 2's going to be interesting for sure

I'm still hesitating on fighter-heavy lists, trying to get my feet wet in that area. We've got a local player with an absolutely brutal fighter screen, will try to emulate his list in the coming weeks.

I think we'll see fewer fighterless lists because there's now a lot more fighters to choose from and R&V give us some nice splash potential.

My biggest question before running a fighter screen is how to deal with Intel. Dunno if it's just the group here but that seems to be up-and-coming with our local meta.

You deal with it by just "schwacking" the Intel ship first activation.

Dedicat every squad shot you have on the Intel ship and/or its escort. Kill it fast. Then the squads are back to normal engagement and no worries for capital ships. Freeing up your bombers from the furrball to kill capital ships.

I find Dutch/wedge amazing for this.

Also, one escort does NOT really protect a ship. If he has just one escort for an Intel ship, there is always side or angle where the distances mean you get a shot free on the Intel one. The only way possible for a ship to be fully immune via escorts is to have three in an equilateral triangle around the ship they are escorting. No one does that... . Yet.......

but with a local buddy threatening to troll with howlrunner + dengar interceptors (Counter 4), I can never be too certain. Good thing I was already planning to run Escort Nebs

Wait a second. The Howlrunner die adds to Counter as well?

Sorry, I cant check the FAQ or Errata on my tablet. Apparently FFG uses the only PDFs not compatible with a Droid LG tablet.

I was already planning a Howlrunner, 4 TIE Interceptor group with Flight Controllers, Boosted Comms and Expanded Hanger Bays on on an ISD I so the Interceptors could fling 6 blue dice at enemy squadrons, while my VSD II with Corrupter and Expanded Hanger Bays is flinging Rhymer and 3 TIE Bombers at speed 5.

If adding Dengar into the mix wit Howlrunner stacks on counter, I can give even regular TIEs a 2 Counter.

Is this really a thing?

but with a local buddy threatening to troll with howlrunner + dengar interceptors (Counter 4), I can never be too certain. Good thing I was already planning to run Escort Nebs

Wait a second. The Howlrunner die adds to Counter as well?

Sorry, I cant check the FAQ or Errata on my tablet. Apparently FFG uses the only PDFs not compatible with a Droid LG tablet.

I was already planning a Howlrunner, 4 TIE Interceptor group with Flight Controllers, Boosted Comms and Expanded Hanger Bays on on an ISD I so the Interceptors could fling 6 blue dice at enemy squadrons, while my VSD II with Corrupter and Expanded Hanger Bays is flinging Rhymer and 3 TIE Bombers at speed 5.

If adding Dengar into the mix wit Howlrunner stacks on counter, I can give even regular TIEs a 2 Counter.

Is this really a thing?

Yes.

Counter is an attack: therefore howlrunner adds a die IF THEY ARE SWARM.

So Howl+Dengar = Counter 4 interceptors.

This is what I run...so awesome.

Also, I would not (on squadrons) that the sheer presence of Rogue modifiers will guarantee that people do not run squadron-less builds outside of dedicated squadron-killing-ships (Raider spam, and the like). It'll be far too costly, as anyone with a token Rogue force will really hurt you.

Furthermore, FGD, I would have to argue that this topic is a little too limited in scope...especially considering you comments on wave 2. I spent a lot of last night talking to my brother about his list for Wave 2 (he hated wave 1) and we came up with some very, very important points; that, admittedly, have been discussed in another thread about how hard lists are to make.

If you DO choose to max squadrons, then you are sacrificing some other major aspect of your list: activation's, or power.

I feel this is divided up between ships and upgrades.

If you field a large ship, you are also going to drag down your activation count, squadron count, or power count (arguably the large ship is a boost to power, however).

If you field more ships, you will boost your activation count, but draw from squadron count, or power count.

I was considering putting this into a more coherent concept with rough estimations. As I feel the EXTREME variability of list building in wave 2 follows a very clear pattern; yet the game is so amazingly chock full of options that most of these choices are viable.

Am I correct that Howlrunner and Dengar are not affected by their own ability, as it says "another friendly squadron"?

I've been debating running just a straight swarm of X-Wings with the Hawk to allow me to selectively break off. Having five or six X-Wings allows me to protect the Hawk really well and they're decent at both anti-fighter and anti-ship roles, so even though you're paying 13 points a pop you know you're going to get use out of them. Or is that too simplistic an approach?

Correct

Howl runner plus 5 TIE squadrons typically appear in my fleets, with additional squadrons depending on tactic. Corrupter, Rhymer, Boba Fett and bombers make a nice combo, at times. Or Fel, and TIE Advanced serving as dual escort for Fel and Howlrunner.