Hey guys, I'm very new to this forum but not to x-wing.

what do you think of the following builds and which would you fly? Cobra or Torkil? the rest of the list is certainly debatable as well but I want to try them like that. (just not sure if I should use 2 pirates or 1 black sun Z)

option 1:

Talonbane Cobra (28) Push the Limit (3) Cloaking Device (2) Engine Upgrade (4) = 37

With Torkil, who will already be a prime target, you've got yourself set up with a lot of points invested in actions you will hardly ever be able to use.

6 points say that you will take a Focus

4 points that you will Boost

2 points that you will cloak, which would invalidate the 6 points you invested in the TLT for that turn.

The TLT requires you to keep your enemies at range 2-3.

His ability requires you to keep your enemies at range 1-2, that's a pretty narrow band.

You might want to rethink your payload.

I would probably use something more like:

I was thinking with the moldy crow title I can stack up on focus and therefore still use boost and cloaking device. since cloaking device will be only used a few times it might be worth it. but you're right about the points invested. blaster turret might be better. Bossk I really like the way he is. have been playtesting him a bit and don't want to put more points on him either since he is an easy target. thanks for your input Dagonet!

I slightly disagree with Dagonet here (normally I don't, but its probably a difference of playstyle). You see, having those points on Torkhil gives you options. And you are absolutely right that recon + moldy means once you have a comfy little stack of focus built up, you won't need to focus much when battle is joined (at least not until the stack gets depleted a bit). So having the choice to boost or cloak up gives you some options. Outflying your opponent is a key part of the game, so spending 6 points to give you tools to outposition your opponent in more than one way can be a worthwhile investment as long as you can make good use of it at key points in the game (since such things are always situationally beneficial).

But as to who is better, Torkhil or Talonbane? I think they are good against different things, so I would say its meta dependent. If you see a lot of phantoms and other high PS aces, then Torkhil is your man. He was designed specifically to give scum a way to counter those annoyances. Talonbane on the other hand is pretty good against stuff that can't barrel roll or boost. He has an easy time getting into range 1 to unload those 5 dice kill shots (so mostly rebel ships, really).

So TL;DR---if your local scene is made up of primarily imperial players, go Torkhil. If its primarily rebels, go Talonbane.

If you do use talonbane, I would strongly suggest predator instead of push the limit. He doesn't clear stress easily so I don't think push is ideal on him (especially since he's a jouster and wants to have his k-turn available at all times---and dat 5k is pretty awesome). Alternatively, you can put crack shot + glitterstim on for the same points. Gives him one super devestating shot, especially at range 1: target lock, pop the glitter and enjoy 5 re-rollable attack dice at PS9 (turning all eyeballs to hits) and even if your opponent gets one or more evades, cancel one with crack shot...

I agree. I like the idea to have lots of options with Mux but will have to practice him a lot with his new maneuverability I also agree on the meta... that is always the trickiest part just for fun I really like both options though and just having the possibility of using 5 dice on offence with focus and TL or 6 on defence with a PS of 9 is amazing! (although it probably wont happen that often anyway).

PTL on cobra is the question indeed... I really really like him with boost just to get into that range that he so desperately needs but I agree that he has trouble clearing the stress. it really is amazing that FFG is consistentally able to give us so many choices and not one of them is a clear answer! I keep finding myself looking for better lists only to come to the conclusion that there is no one "best" list but many many options and it really depends on your ability to fly well Paul Heaver might be the living proof of FFG's exceptional job Anyway, thanks for the input guys!

37 points is ripe for VI + FCS + Thruster Xizor

Torkil is overbuilt and cobra way too frail in comparison. Either way, you'd need to buff the generics or Bossk and shed points from them in order to have a viable list

If you drop Torkil to an ICT, and drop the Rec. Spec. and Crow, you can upgrade the Zs to Black Sun Soldiers with Feedback Array, and add Greedo for a mini-Murder of Crows effect with an Initiative bid (or Inertial Dampeners for Bossk). You would present some awesome target priority problems.

If you dont mind me asking why outlaw tech on bossk?

You have the z's there already to block with, which then makes it seem like a waste on a hound's dial if you compare to something like a k4.

Edit: scratch that, just saw the interaction with calc. I spend too much time focused on hlc moralo........

I think I will go with Cobra I really like the 1 turn on his dial and of course his abilitiy is just fun to play with. Outlaw tech on Bossk has proven to be very effective for me, especially with Calculation. I use the stop maneuver and 2 turn quite often and nobody likes shooting without a focus (like ever!). the Z's really are mainly for blocking and disrupting and that is why I like PS 1.

so I think I stick with this list for now:

Talonbane Cobra (28) Push the Limit (3) Cloaking Device (2) Engine Upgrade (4) = 37

I mainly play casual so it's fine for me. thanks for the feedback people! (if you have criticism about this list, I still like to hear it! always learning )

I think for Cobra is inought Predator+Engine upgrade - 35pt, this is all what it needs.

2 points invest in Crack shots or Gliterstrim.

Your list is similar to what I've been flying. I don't like Calc/outlaw tech. I would rather do a green get a free target lock and stress myself for an extra dice. Range 1 5 dice focus target is what I'm looking for. Possibility of 6 damage with each range 1 shot. Opportunist triggers easily because palob either took the token or the enemy didn't take one so it wouldnt be stolen. Torkil is there to compensate for the "below average" ps7 of bossk and palob and add a second tlt. Recon had been a life saver for the hawks. I have thought about swapping torkil for cobra but as I'm only spending 28 points on torkil I would want to free up some points for upgrades.

HWK-290: · Torkil Mux (19)

Twin Laser Turret (6)

Recon Specialist (3)

HWK-290: · Palob Godalhi (20)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Twin Laser Turret (6)

Recon Specialist (3)

YV-666: · Bossk (35)

Opportunist (4)

K4 Security Droid (3)

I like the idea of 2 HWK's and a YV-666 on the battlefield! I'm just afraid that it is too easy for the enemey to get behind them and into range 1... than you have no TLT and no way of turning your ships around easily. with the oulaw tech on Bossk you will use the 0 maneuver more often and might be able to block a few ships while cobra comes in from the side. I also like to keep Bossk as cheap as possible but still make him a threat enough. having said that, I really like your list and hope it works for you! getting to do 6 damage is fun!

"I'm just afraid that it is too easy for the enemey to get behind them and into range 1... than you have no TLT and no way of turning your ships around easily."

Bossk is always right behind the hawks. Even bumping into them as I still get a target lock. If you're in range one of the hawks you have to deal with their pilot abilitys and a 5 dice from bossk. I've spent alot of time just hard 2 with hawks they are slow but clean up generics with tlt and 3/7 pilot skill.