So my league play started up 3 weeks ago. The current (undefeated) leader of the pack is using Heaver's winning World Championship list from this year. I assume most (all) of you know the list by now.

I haven't played him yet. We were supposed to have a matchup last week but scheduling conflicts for both of us prevented that, and so I face him in a double header tomorrow. I've been brainstorming a lot of ideas but I would appreciate some solid advice/input/suggestions.

What would you use if you knew this is the list you would be facing? I've got two shots to beat him and put a dent in his lead.

**NOTE: I do NOT own any of the HUGE ships. So no R5, C3P0, Palp, TIE/A title for me. Christmas will change this lol. But for now assume I can make any other list from either of the three factions excluding upgrades from huge ships.

you don't actually counter it

it's just a solid, well rounded list with built in dice-failsafes and a stupid good late game in Poe

the only winning move is to play well against it

so far, my victories against it have just been "kill the low agi generics, run away from Poe" which resulted in https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/194145-fickles-most-shameful-game/

but, as anything with PS 2 TLTs, PS 4 Tie Fighter stuff works very well against the majority of it; not against Poe

Yeah that's why he decided to go with it it's really not something that can be hard countered. In his words he doesn't like to see swarms but it's really just a skill list your best counter is to try and out fly it.

Advanced sensors Corran lists should have a good shot at it. Especially since league games are less likely to be timed. Poe cannot kill Corran. Corran can eventually get Poe.

Dash/Corran.

3A + Corran.

Corran 2Y.

If it were me, I'd pick a high PS Imperial Ace list, and do my best to out play it, as should be done with any Imperial Ace list. If you don't get into the arc of the stressbot at a bad time (when you can't escape next round without being shot at, etc.), then it's just like beating any rebel list, with only one TLT turret to boot.

Play a list that you know how to win with and out play other lists with, rather than a list that relies on enemy mistakes, and you'll have a solid shot at victory.

Or, actually, just bring the same list. It will become a true testament of skill

The counter is to kill Poe first. Heaver said as much in the latest Nova squadron podcast. It's no so much a list building question as a target priority one.

Bombs?

The counter is to kill Poe first. Heaver said as much in the latest Nova squadron podcast. It's no so much a list building question as a target priority one.

Locally I beat the list with the following of all things:

5 x Scimitar Squadron Bombers + Fletchette Torpedoes + Extra Munitions (or just run with 10 Fletchett torpedoes if you have them).

Got the main group tangled up in the asteroid fields, and got Poe isolated and loaded with Stress from the Fletchett Torpedoes.

How you counter the list is basically what is the most threat. Poe you can't leave to the end game as he'll just chew you alive. Load him with stress and he is easier to deal with.

Bump Poe, stress Poe, Crackshot Poe, Vader crew Poe, Stress Poe, strip Poe's focus, or alternatively roll Poe's ship over, his helmet has no chinstrap so it will fall off and he will be more likely to get injured in an accident and seriously up his insurance rates.

Many people over estimate Poe. Pour damage into him. If you can bump/stress him so he doesn't focus, you're gravy. Then its mostly avoiding taking too much damage from the stresshog and the other TLT.

Also note that any piece in that list that flies away contributes to a huge reduction in firepower. Cuz the firepower is strongly split among each ship. Poe actually doesn't do that much damage. 3 dice F. Avoid letting him get R1s for free.

Just assume you know your list better than your opponent knows theirs, and be content in the knowledge that they simply aren't as good as Paul Heaver.

I would counter it with this, unfortunately I just realized that Wes is shipped with the Transport.

Brad Miller (who took 10th) played against a very similar list in his first match:

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/193124-10th-place-x-wing-world-championships-2015/

Also, watch Kelvan play against Paul Heaver with that list here...you'll see it's beatable with a rebel swarm:

no offence, but the end of that game is the most boring and weird game ive ever seen.

Well in a few interviews after world's Paul said dash corran is like the best list against it. I have been beating a few copy cats with the decimator plus ace lists

Lately the list has been

Oicunn, predator, darth vader, Isard, rebel captive, engine upgrade

whisper, vi, acd, sensor jammer

So far over all I'm 5 and 1 against it with the is list. For me, killing poe quick makes beating that list much easier. Rebel captive and sensor jammer makes for a killer little combo too

Kavil (24)
Predator (3)
Autoblaster Turret (2)
Unhinged Astromech (1)

Palob Godalhi (20)
Lightning Reflexes (1)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Moldy Crow (3)

Guri (30)
Lone Wolf (2)
Sensor Jammer (4)
Autothrusters (2)
Virago (1)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Remember to thank Poe for the focus token before you kill him then use Guri to clean up the mess

could also drop ABT on Kavil and Title on HWK for TLT on Kavil but I wouldn't

The best bit is when you drop Lighting Reflexes on the HWK when they least expect it

Double brobots with PTL+Sensor one with HLK another with Mangler downed Poe very quickly, though it might be a fault of our local player.

One thing I see is that other than Poe it's got no reposition actions at all, so it should be easy to pile a bunch of ships into Range 1.

With that in mind:

[15] Black Sun Soldier, Feedback Array

[15] Black Sun Soldier, Dead Man's Switch

[14] Binayre Pirate, Feedback Array

[14] Binayre Pirate, Feedback Array

[14] Binayre Pirate, Feedback Array

[14] Binayre Pirate, Dead Man's Switch

[14] Binayre Pirate, Dead Man's Switch

Autodamage invalidates Autothrusters, and stacking enough of it means the Ys don't either.

Why the mix of Array and DMS? It plays with target prioritization, and tends to make your opponent work a lot harder remembering which ship is which. Z vs Y can actually get reasonable damage through without needing to self-inflict, and having DMS on a few ships gives some area damage when things get jammed up. Also, 7 ships that want to be at Range 1 and don't care if they bump makes for some nasty blocking.

The problem isn't making up a list. It's flying against someone who's passionate about the game and can predict all of my decisions two moves in advance. I've played against the top 8 brobots guy two days before worlds (haha ps6 brobots this is gonna be a blast) and I got tabled within 15 minutes.

Having said that, I'd probably go with Jan Ors+Cracken+Miranda/Homing missiles/EM/Recon. At least, that's what I'd do against a newer player flying the same list. Throw some 6-dice attacks and destroy the biggest threat in the first round of combat.

To counter Paul's list, you need a toolbox list of your own that can hate on poe, survive a few turns of tlt fire, outmaneuver the stress bot or just not care about stress, and deal with autothrusters/focus tokens...

If you can knock out poe in the early stages of the game with your force - and survive with enough to take on the regular TLT - then kill Mr Stress - you should do just fine - Stress over Turret TLT depends on board position the most. The real trick though is in pauls deployment that really punishes going after Poe First - but that's the trap - not going after poe first is worse in the end.

Here's a novel example...
Rebel

Wild Space Fringer + HLC + Intel Agent (Roll with the E-wing or Fringer to block poe via intel agent - or avoid stressies arc - tank early TLT / concentrated fire) good dial to get poe in arc- and wide arc, can still kite and use 2 attack turret vs the y-wings)

Wes Janson + VI + Integrated Astromech + R2 astromech (Strip focus tokens from poe, care less about stress with R2, and gain some durability for the approach.)

Knave Squadron + Sensor Jammer. High Agi + shields, to tank TLT shots and can block opponents pieces.

If you feel lucky - drop the intel agent, and take the initiative choice to move after poe does with Wes.

If you owned them, I bet a 5K list would be a decent counter. I'd even be willing to try a 4K and Serissu list.

it's not the list you have to beat, but the other guy.

I admit that an okay/good list-building is the first step towards that, but it's not more.

there are always good and bad matchups, I'll give you that, but it's much more important how you handle yourself (and the other guy).

build a decent list and fly it well - that's the way to beat anything.

it's not the list you have to beat,

It is also the list you have to beat, its raw efficiency speaks for itself.

Here's a tip, tally up the combined hull, shields (factoring in regen), expected damage for the list, then try to build the same using either Scum or Empire.

It can almost be done, but not quite, (yet?).

scum can't do it

neither reach the survivability, nor damage mitigation, nor regen, nor stress control.

it's not the list you have to beat,

It is also the list you have to beat, its raw efficiency speaks for itself.

Here's a tip, tally up the combined hull, shields (factoring in regen), expected damage for the list, then try to build the same using either Scum or Empire.

It can almost be done, but not quite, (yet?).

More than half that hull/shield combo is behind AGI 1 because of the Y-wings.