With the idea of 'cost' tossed out the window, an ideal list for me might be as follows:

This may seem tough but a reasonable response with Dutch, wedge and a couple a wings wrecks it.

I've found that an effective squadron force is 70 or so pts on anti ftr and the rest bomber. Without a realistic anti squad squad, yer bombers won't hit capital ships.

In this list ig88 would never get to fire and likely die on turn two. Then the squad falls apart

What about making one of the Raiders into Instigator to deal with the Rebel counter wing? Might have to remove the Ordnance Experts but you can potentially lock down pesky squadrons. That or remove one of the Rapid Reloads for both titles?

This may seem tough but a reasonable response with Dutch, wedge and a couple a wings wrecks it.

I've found that an effective squadron force is 70 or so pts on anti ftr and the rest bomber. Without a realistic anti squad squad, yer bombers won't hit capital ships.

In this list ig88 would never get to fire and likely die on turn two. Then the squad falls apart

There's always a response - part of a healthy game. I do disagree about IG-88 though - he's fast as an interceptor and can happily chase down the most dangerous Squad on the field, then re-join the rhymerball. It won't fall apart if he dies, and he'll certainly make it worth it on his way out.

Just for kicks I tried a 2 ISD + Crazy Rhymerball the other day to counter a no-fighter Ackbar list with 2 AFIIs and 2 Corvettes and a MC80.

It was a fun match! I used 5 Tie bombers and Rhymer and A firespray and Bobba.

I must say I would gladly take all 3 of my firesprays next time over tie bombers, I can't believe how many blanks I rolled on those black dice 25% chance might be strictly true statistically but lady luck hates me.

My rhymerball was primarily responsible for the death of 2 ships including the MC80 but good god I hate the Home One title with Ackbar. ECM is now a must have defensive upgrade on ISD.

I think next time I'll jig the ball to be able to withstand some fighters, downgrade to a victory carrier and bring a raider as well.

Next thing I'm going to try is a max rhymerball with my 5 raiders all sporting expanded hangars. No idea if this will even be a thing...but I have the ships to try!

If that doesn't work I may go 4 raiders, Hunter-Killer ISDII and fighter screen. I went a little nuts buying wave 2 stuff.....

This may seem tough but a reasonable response with Dutch, wedge and a couple a wings wrecks it.

I've found that an effective squadron force is 70 or so pts on anti ftr and the rest bomber. Without a realistic anti squad squad, yer bombers won't hit capital ships.

In this list ig88 would never get to fire and likely die on turn two. Then the squad falls apart

There's always a response - part of a healthy game. I do disagree about IG-88 though - he's fast as an interceptor and can happily chase down the most dangerous Squad on the field, then re-join the rhymerball. It won't fall apart if he dies, and he'll certainly make it worth it on his way out.

Just played against ig88, so yesterday experience. People use rogue and don't give squad commands. Meaning he goes last..... Dutch flies up....activates...wedge shoots.....next turn...repeat.. Ig88 never activates in this scenario and your only viable anti squadron is dead fast. Maybe one turn...definitely two.

Not saying always, but ya got have more than one true fighter if you want your bomber force to succeed.

What about making one of the Raiders into Instigator to deal with the Rebel counter wing? Might have to remove the Ordnance Experts but you can potentially lock down pesky squadrons. That or remove one of the Rapid Reloads for both titles?

Ordnance Experts is the most potent anti-squadron card you can possibly fit to the Raider-I.

Being able to re-roll your two black on each attack basically guarantees 2 dmg per squadron targeted.

With the idea of 'cost' tossed out the window, an ideal list for me might be as follows:

(400 of 400 pts)

Commander: Admiral Motti (24 pts)

Flagship: (135 pts)

Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120 pts)

Relentless (3 pts)

Gunnery Team (7 pts)

SW-7 Ion Batteries (5 pts)

Fleet Ship 1: (56 pts)

Raider I-Class Corvette (44 pts)

Ordnance Experts (4 pts)

Rapid Reload (8 pts)

Fleet Ship 2: (56 pts)

Raider I-Class Corvette (44 pts)

Ordnance Experts (4 pts)

Rapid Reload (8 pts)

Squadrons (129 of 134 pts):

1x Major Rhymer Tie Bomber Squadron (16 pts)

1x Punishing One - Dengar (20 pts)

4x Firespray-31 (72 pts)

1x IG-2000 - IG-88 (21 pts)

Objectives: Precision Strike , Hyperspace Assault , Dangerous Territory

Why include rapid reload on your raiders? Surely you could put APT or ACMs instead and achieve greater results?

Why include rapid reload on your raiders? Surely you could put APT or ACMs instead and achieve greater results?

Greater isn't always Consistent. ACM/APT need to get through before they can trigger a bonus, whereas a second die can still do the potential 2 damage of the ACMs but to the same hull zone instead. Same amount of damage, different placement.

The article misspelled Fimerball.

Who the hell calls it that?

Everyone who's cool.

Alternate spelling:Fhymerball.

Drop Mottie and go for Oz, change the SW-7 Ion Batteries to leading shot, drop Mauler, strip the Raiders and then add a third Raider.

All that's left to do is que Ride of the Valkyries.

Your fleet can move 3, Oz loves this. The ISD II dosn't have a reroll. Mauler is oneshot if you don't have intel. 3 nude Raiders should do more damage than 2 buffed ones. This fits my Psycho style, mileage may very.

Edited due to rampant cerebral flaulence.

So, I just had Oz used against me, and I realize I had him confused with another dude. So, scratch my idea and carry on. Good work.

Just for kicks I tried a 2 ISD + Crazy Rhymerball the other day to counter a no-fighter Ackbar list with 2 AFIIs and 2 Corvettes and a MC80.

It was a fun match! I used 5 Tie bombers and Rhymer and A firespray and Bobba.

I must say I would gladly take all 3 of my firesprays next time over tie bombers, I can't believe how many blanks I rolled on those black dice 25% chance might be strictly true statistically but lady luck hates me.

My rhymerball was primarily responsible for the death of 2 ships including the MC80 but good god I hate the Home One title with Ackbar. ECM is now a must have defensive upgrade on ISD.

I think next time I'll jig the ball to be able to withstand some fighters, downgrade to a victory carrier and bring a raider as well.

Next thing I'm going to try is a max rhymerball with my 5 raiders all sporting expanded hangars. No idea if this will even be a thing...but I have the ships to try!

If that doesn't work I may go 4 raiders, Hunter-Killer ISDII and fighter screen. I went a little nuts buying wave 2 stuff.....

That, RazelKorr is why I suggested Fel and Dengar. Basically they turn your Rhymerball into a porcupine (with one extra spine from Fett).

Sure, they may attack your squadrons with theirs, but they're gonna pay a stiff price for doing it.

Why include rapid reload on your raiders? Surely you could put APT or ACMs instead and achieve greater results?

Greater isn't always Consistent. ACM/APT need to get through before they can trigger a bonus, whereas a second die can still do the potential 2 damage of the ACMs but to the same hull zone instead. Same amount of damage, different placement.

What do you mean have to "get through"? You mean you have to roll a crit? not too hard with black dice, but yes it can happen where your crit does not come off and you don't get to resolve a crit effect, but by the same token that extra black die can roll blank. (but you are correct in that you have a more consistent chance at 1 damage extra vs the same shield facing).

Also I think I will consider long and hard before running an ISDII without ECM. I have some bad recent memories of eating a couple of rounds of 6 red 2 blue with Home One letting my opponent lock down every single defense token. I was using advanced projectors that allowed me to survive the odd time I got to redirect but heavy accuracy is even better than XI7s in some cases. When I add up how much raw damage I could have outright avoided with ECM it becomes a must.

That, RazelKorr is why I suggested Fel and Dengar. Basically they turn your Rhymerball into a porcupine (with one extra spine from Fett).

Sure, they may attack your squadrons with theirs, but they're gonna pay a stiff price for doing it.

I absolutely believe you, and if you note I tossed Dengar into the last list for that delicious Counter goodness.

Also I think I will consider long and hard before running an ISDII without ECM. I have some bad recent memories of eating a couple of rounds of 6 red 2 blue with Home One letting my opponent lock down every single defense token. I was using advanced projectors that allowed me to survive the odd time I got to redirect but heavy accuracy is even better than XI7s in some cases. When I add up how much raw damage I could have outright avoided with ECM it becomes a must.

On my standard fleet it is already there, and I may try to slip it in still. Also the XI7s are probably swapping for heavy turrets. Enough damage will hopefully be dealt that it shouldn't matter where you take it. As for the Crit/Blank idea, the blank can get rerolled with Ordinance Experts.

What about making one of the Raiders into Instigator to deal with the Rebel counter wing? Might have to remove the Ordnance Experts but you can potentially lock down pesky squadrons. That or remove one of the Rapid Reloads for both titles?

Ordnance Experts is the most potent anti-squadron card you can possibly fit to the Raider-I.

Being able to re-roll your two black on each attack basically guarantees 2 dmg per squadron targeted.

2 damage isn't bad but potentially locking down several enemy squadrons feels like the better option so the Rhymerball can do its job (i.e. much more potential damage to capital ships). I'd also rather destroy or damage capital ships if I can manage it imo.

What about making one of the Raiders into Instigator to deal with the Rebel counter wing? Might have to remove the Ordnance Experts but you can potentially lock down pesky squadrons. That or remove one of the Rapid Reloads for both titles?

Ordnance Experts is the most potent anti-squadron card you can possibly fit to the Raider-I.

Being able to re-roll your two black on each attack basically guarantees 2 dmg per squadron targeted.

2 damage isn't bad but potentially locking down several enemy squadrons feels like the better option so the Rhymerball can do its job (i.e. much more potential damage to capital ships). I'd also rather destroy or damage capital ships if I can manage it imo.

How many squadrons have grit?

Instigator is useful against THOSE squadrons and those squadrons ALONE.

That's a very, *very* specific and small handful of cards you're spending four points to counteract, with a good chance you won't get to use it at all.

Impetuous works on all squadrons. It's a better investment of four points IMO.

What about making one of the Raiders into Instigator to deal with the Rebel counter wing? Might have to remove the Ordnance Experts but you can potentially lock down pesky squadrons. That or remove one of the Rapid Reloads for both titles?

Ordnance Experts is the most potent anti-squadron card you can possibly fit to the Raider-I.

Being able to re-roll your two black on each attack basically guarantees 2 dmg per squadron targeted.

2 damage isn't bad but potentially locking down several enemy squadrons feels like the better option so the Rhymerball can do its job (i.e. much more potential damage to capital ships). I'd also rather destroy or damage capital ships if I can manage it imo.

How many squadrons have grit?

Instigator is useful against THOSE squadrons and those squadrons ALONE.

That's a very, *very* specific and small handful of cards you're spending four points to counteract, with a good chance you won't get to use it at all.

Impetuous works on all squadrons. It's a better investment of four points IMO.

Instigator doesn't really care if you have Grit or not, as it makes the enemy squadrons within distance 1 count as being engaged by 2 extra fighters. It's a squadron shield and locking down any potential problems from fighters doesn't feel like a very specific problem to me. IMO stopping one of the worst problems for the Rhymerball, enemy squadrons, feels like something any list wants to think about.

I'd much rather spend 4 points on the Instigator than Impetuous although I squeeze in both titles when I run two Raiders. Then again, I use the Raiders as a control element rather than a damage element.

2 evades and a brace, 2 shields, 4 hull. The Rhymer ball kills it before it kills them. It's great AS support, but only Squadrons can kill bombers fast enough to stop them.

What about making one of the Raiders into Instigator to deal with the Rebel counter wing? Might have to remove the Ordnance Experts but you can potentially lock down pesky squadrons. That or remove one of the Rapid Reloads for both titles?

Ordnance Experts is the most potent anti-squadron card you can possibly fit to the Raider-I.

Being able to re-roll your two black on each attack basically guarantees 2 dmg per squadron targeted.

2 damage isn't bad but potentially locking down several enemy squadrons feels like the better option so the Rhymerball can do its job (i.e. much more potential damage to capital ships). I'd also rather destroy or damage capital ships if I can manage it imo.

How many squadrons have grit?

Instigator is useful against THOSE squadrons and those squadrons ALONE.

That's a very, *very* specific and small handful of cards you're spending four points to counteract, with a good chance you won't get to use it at all.

Impetuous works on all squadrons. It's a better investment of four points IMO.

Instigator doesn't really care if you have Grit or not, as it makes the enemy squadrons within distance 1 count as being engaged by 2 extra fighters. It's a squadron shield and locking down any potential problems from fighters doesn't feel like a very specific problem to me. IMO stopping one of the worst problems for the Rhymerball, enemy squadrons, feels like something any list wants to think about.

I'd much rather spend 4 points on the Instigator than Impetuous although I squeeze in both titles when I run two Raiders. Then again, I use the Raiders as a control element rather than a damage element.

You know what else is a squadron shield? TIE Fighters. They're also 8 pts, and significantly more precise.

And really, I can't see ever wanting to put the Instigator anywhere without a few TIEs to take the inevitable heat off of her.

Then again, I run my Raiders as ballistic missiles.

Why would anyone use a Raider alone in an attempt to kill squadrons? A raider alone will delay squadrons. A raider with small fighter escort will roll through, destroy and damage most, then the Raider will putter off to blast some ship in the rear arc while the TIEs hang back to mop up.

Two solid hits from a Raider will drop a whole swarm of TIE bombers to 1 hull.

So what about something more like this, since I just got +2x individual Firesprays:

This is a great build. I hope I get to fly against it. I've pondered a counter which, I think, ends up being a decent all around fleet.

Counter

Faction: Rebel Alliance

Points: 395/400

Commander: Admiral Ackbar

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery

Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault

Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

[ flagship ] MC80 Command Cruiser (106 points)

- Admiral Ackbar ( 38 points)

- Home One ( 7 points)

- Engine Techs ( 8 points)

- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)

- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)

- XI7 Turbolasers ( 6 points)

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)

- Enhanced Armament ( 10 points)

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)

- Enhanced Armament ( 10 points)

1 Luke Skywalker ( 20 points)

1 Dash Rendar ( 24 points)

1 Jan Ors ( 19 points)

1 YT-2400 ( 16 points)

2 Scurrg H-6 Bombers ( 32 points)

Fleet created with Armada Warlords

This is a great build. I hope I get to fly against it. I've pondered a counter which, I think, ends up being a decent all around fleet.

I notice lots of people taking those objectives - Hit harder with the small ships, poof them into place, or take no damage from obstacles. I approve.