I know it's not the full Zeta Cartel, but with the new FO Aces, I'm going to try running Rex (HLC+Pred) with Zeta Leader (VI) and a Palpatine Shuttle to see how it works with the defenders. I've got three points left and am debating between a Comm Relay for Zeta Leader and Hull Upgrade for Rex. I could also drop Pred for LW to save another point, but I don't like that idea as much since I find Predator key for ripping up PS2 TLTs.

Hmm... Palpatine in the mix makes me want to run Lone Wolf + Stealth Device, but I think you're right about Predator. I'd go Hull Upgrade on Rex in that case. You don't really mind if Zeta Leader goes down first, and Comm Relay nudges them to go after Rex first (ZL is almost as tough as Rex with a Comm Relay). It makes Rex too obviously the main target. I think Palpatine will be nasty with Rex.

Hmm... Palpatine in the mix makes me want to run Lone Wolf + Stealth Device, but I think you're right about Predator. I'd go Hull Upgrade on Rex in that case. You don't really mind if Zeta Leader goes down first, and Comm Relay nudges them to go after Rex first (ZL is almost as tough as Rex with a Comm Relay). It makes Rex too obviously the main target. I think Palpatine will be nasty with Rex.

Or Maarek

Hmm... Palpatine in the mix makes me want to run Lone Wolf + Stealth Device, but I think you're right about Predator. I'd go Hull Upgrade on Rex in that case. You don't really mind if Zeta Leader goes down first, and Comm Relay nudges them to go after Rex first (ZL is almost as tough as Rex with a Comm Relay). It makes Rex too obviously the main target. I think Palpatine will be nasty with Rex.

That makes sense and I think I'll give it a shot that way. I assumed that Rex would be the less tempting target either way, but Comm Relay probably means that Zeta suddenly becomes the harder target with the smaller gun. With the base 4 health and PS 9, he can still play a decent keep away if needed.

Hmm... Palpatine in the mix makes me want to run Lone Wolf + Stealth Device, but I think you're right about Predator. I'd go Hull Upgrade on Rex in that case. You don't really mind if Zeta Leader goes down first, and Comm Relay nudges them to go after Rex first (ZL is almost as tough as Rex with a Comm Relay). It makes Rex too obviously the main target. I think Palpatine will be nasty with Rex.

That makes sense and I think I'll give it a shot that way. I assumed that Rex would be the less tempting target either way, but Comm Relay probably means that Zeta suddenly becomes the harder target with the smaller gun. With the base 4 health and PS 9, he can still play a decent keep away if needed.

So, this feels old-school now, but I ran this list for a couple games tonight. Both games were wins against newer players, but a couple of thoughts. Rex with 7 health and 4 attacks backed by the Emperor is nasty. Hard to kill and a wrecking ball. He's a hard choice to go after first since he's so tough to kill, but the shuttle can soak a lot of damage, too. Zeta Leader is essentially a 3 attack 21 point PS 9 ship that plays like an interceptor in that it doesn't really care about the stress and can use his ability consistently. I'll keep playing around with this one, but it's different enough that I'll continue running it.

Hmm... Palpatine in the mix makes me want to run Lone Wolf + Stealth Device, but I think you're right about Predator. I'd go Hull Upgrade on Rex in that case. You don't really mind if Zeta Leader goes down first, and Comm Relay nudges them to go after Rex first (ZL is almost as tough as Rex with a Comm Relay). It makes Rex too obviously the main target. I think Palpatine will be nasty with Rex.

That makes sense and I think I'll give it a shot that way. I assumed that Rex would be the less tempting target either way, but Comm Relay probably means that Zeta suddenly becomes the harder target with the smaller gun. With the base 4 health and PS 9, he can still play a decent keep away if needed.

So, this feels old-school now, but I ran this list for a couple games tonight. Both games were wins against newer players, but a couple of thoughts. Rex with 7 health and 4 attacks backed by the Emperor is nasty. Hard to kill and a wrecking ball. He's a hard choice to go after first since he's so tough to kill, but the shuttle can soak a lot of damage, too. Zeta Leader is essentially a 3 attack 21 point PS 9 ship that plays like an interceptor in that it doesn't really care about the stress and can use his ability consistently. I'll keep playing around with this one, but it's different enough that I'll continue running it.

I ran the exact same list two weeks ago too! It was so much fun to finally have 2 aces with the palatine shuttle,one of them being a Tie/Defender. Before Zeta Leader (and obviously before the Imperial Veterans) it was impossible! Very fun list to play.

So, I'm wondering once Imp Vets are out, should Rex's HLC always get switched out for Tie/D+ion (or maybe flechette). If only for the cheaper cost, and comparable damage (with pred) along with some control. Then, if you free up 4 points, what do you add to in this list?

Yes, always. I can't really justify HLC in any way right now. I think I take the 4 points + initiative bid to upgrade Zetas to Omegas with Crack Shot. I'm also considering a named FO in there, though.

Ya, my immediate thought was similar to try and get some crack shots in there with the FO's, as long as my opponents let me test the title before its officially released. I went all in for that list by repainting a Defender. Need to try it, stat!

So after a few games messing around with TIE/Ds with Ion Cannons, I'm not 100% that you always take them over HLCs. Certainly they're better in most situations, but it still can't match the raw opening turns firepower of the souped up HLC. I think it easily makes up for it with control, close-range firepower, and cost, but there were times when I missed that constant hammer of Predator Rex and the HLC in a 2-Defender list. I'm currently musing on Rex with HLC and Maarek with Ion/Primary for a 2-Defender list. More play is needed, but it's exciting to have options.

Hmm... Palpatine in the mix makes me want to run Lone Wolf + Stealth Device, but I think you're right about Predator. I'd go Hull Upgrade on Rex in that case. You don't really mind if Zeta Leader goes down first, and Comm Relay nudges them to go after Rex first (ZL is almost as tough as Rex with a Comm Relay). It makes Rex too obviously the main target. I think Palpatine will be nasty with Rex.

That makes sense and I think I'll give it a shot that way. I assumed that Rex would be the less tempting target either way, but Comm Relay probably means that Zeta suddenly becomes the harder target with the smaller gun. With the base 4 health and PS 9, he can still play a decent keep away if needed.

So, this feels old-school now, but I ran this list for a couple games tonight. Both games were wins against newer players, but a couple of thoughts. Rex with 7 health and 4 attacks backed by the Emperor is nasty. Hard to kill and a wrecking ball. He's a hard choice to go after first since he's so tough to kill, but the shuttle can soak a lot of damage, too. Zeta Leader is essentially a 3 attack 21 point PS 9 ship that plays like an interceptor in that it doesn't really care about the stress and can use his ability consistently. I'll keep playing around with this one, but it's different enough that I'll continue running it.

The FO Aces are really nice counterpoints to Defenders, it seems. They're at a nice price point for their capability which helps them modestly fill in weaknesses in a Defender list while leaving room for 9ther stuff you want.

Hmm... Palpatine in the mix makes me want to run Lone Wolf + Stealth Device, but I think you're right about Predator. I'd go Hull Upgrade on Rex in that case. You don't really mind if Zeta Leader goes down first, and Comm Relay nudges them to go after Rex first (ZL is almost as tough as Rex with a Comm Relay). It makes Rex too obviously the main target. I think Palpatine will be nasty with Rex.

That makes sense and I think I'll give it a shot that way. I assumed that Rex would be the less tempting target either way, but Comm Relay probably means that Zeta suddenly becomes the harder target with the smaller gun. With the base 4 health and PS 9, he can still play a decent keep away if needed.

So, this feels old-school now, but I ran this list for a couple games tonight. Both games were wins against newer players, but a couple of thoughts. Rex with 7 health and 4 attacks backed by the Emperor is nasty. Hard to kill and a wrecking ball. He's a hard choice to go after first since he's so tough to kill, but the shuttle can soak a lot of damage, too. Zeta Leader is essentially a 3 attack 21 point PS 9 ship that plays like an interceptor in that it doesn't really care about the stress and can use his ability consistently. I'll keep playing around with this one, but it's different enough that I'll continue running it.

The FO Aces are really nice counterpoints to Defenders, it seems. They're at a nice price point for their capability which helps them modestly fill in weaknesses in a Defender list while leaving room for 9ther stuff you want.

Agreed, and now I'm contemplating a list with two of them (Zeta+Omega Leaders) and Rex but I think the shuttle is too good.

So after a few games messing around with TIE/Ds with Ion Cannons, I'm not 100% that you always take them over HLCs. Certainly they're better in most situations, but it still can't match the raw opening turns firepower of the souped up HLC. I think it easily makes up for it with control, close-range firepower, and cost, but there were times when I missed that constant hammer of Predator Rex and the HLC in a 2-Defender list. I'm currently musing on Rex with HLC and Maarek with Ion/Primary for a 2-Defender list. More play is needed, but it's exciting to have options.

It's why I don't think the "named" HLC defenders needed a buff, and another thing I mentioned elsewhere is that I feel like the single HLC roll, while not always more effective in terms damage gives me fewer reasons to spend that focus on offense and keep it for defense. This was the case today when I played against a PS8 Vessery with a flechette and the title with my own HLC Brath. Vess took damage much faster than Brath because he wasn't left with a token for defense and wasn't dealing out any more damage despite having his ability every time he fired. Edit: And I'll add that I liked have the straight 4 dice shot on Whisper.

Interesting, I've found sort of the opposite to be true (limited testing, however). The Ion shot often doesn't need Focus, target depending, and Focus is less impressive on the Primary shot, so I found myself being a little more defensive with it. I'd ion something, and pick away with Predator boosted Primary shots, but end up holding the Focus for defense. With the HLC, I roll a lot of dice, so I get a lot of eyes. I usually end up spending it, because my whole HLC strategy is to just be alive after I cut the heart out of a list. Usually I can then lean on the raw offense, 3 green dice, and white K to finish off the rest.

Interesting, I've found sort of the opposite to be true (limited testing, however). The Ion shot often doesn't need Focus, target depending, and Focus is less impressive on the Primary shot, so I found myself being a little more defensive with it. I'd ion something, and pick away with Predator boosted Primary shots, but end up holding the Focus for defense. With the HLC, I roll a lot of dice, so I get a lot of eyes. I usually end up spending it, because my whole HLC strategy is to just be alive after I cut the heart out of a list. Usually I can then lean on the raw offense, 3 green dice, and white K to finish off the rest.

That's fair, especially as I was more using TLT experience (which I guess is similar to the ion but not exact) and I've also been running Palpatine the last couple of games so I may be skewed because of that, too!

What do you guys think about running Outmaneuver with the IC? Viable?

I would say Outmaneuver is alright on Vessery only. Predator is pretty much better on anyone else.

So far I've found vess to be the best economy pilot, aka usually x7 and thats it. Steele and brath are both nasty with /D and ions. If either one of them get on you its over. Even dudes like poe are a complete joke to these guys. Much as I love the HLC I don't see myself using it again anytime soon.

So far I've found vess to be the best economy pilot, aka usually x7 and thats it. Steele and brath are both nasty with /D and ions. If either one of them get on you its over. Even dudes like poe are a complete joke to these guys. Much as I love the HLC I don't see myself using it again anytime soon.

Yeah, I want a last big pre-Vets Defender hurrah. Who am I kidding, I was planning on running Rex anyway.

Yeah, I want a last big pre-Vets Defender hurrah. Who am I kidding, I was planning on running Rex anyway.

I'll be playing around with the original list in this thread, the emperor+zeta leader and Brath list above, and a third list I need to try that swaps the Palp shuttle out for a Gamma with Homing Missiles, Conner Net, and EM. It's a nasty little ship that I've gotten some work in with and like a lot but haven't paired with Brath yet.

I've played Rexler along with howlrunner and two black squadrons when the bbbbz was shining some time ago and it was great to blow a B-Wing up every turn.

This came back to my mind while reading about your first and second matches. Maybe I got it wrong, but it seems to me that you did not concentrate your fire upon one ship before choosing another..? (Correct me, just in case)

So good to see that someone still flies Uncle Rex.

The HLC is a better shield breaker, and Soontir is about the only one that you really need to be concerned about. I think at Range 2, the extra shot makes it a wash, I think, and even at Range 4, HLC can have trouble. The combo is better than a TLT shot because Predator is involved. Either with IC or HLC, blocking is the preferred tactic.

For non multi-action Autothruster, Stealth Device aces, the dual shot is awfully good, still.

Soontir will fear the tractor beam and spend anything, just anything to not get hit.

Even more if the tractor beam carrier has crack shot and is flying a tie defender, since it will drop from agility 4 (with stealth device) to agility 2 due to the loss of Stealth Device.

I've played Rexler along with howlrunner and two black squadrons when the bbbbz was shining some time ago and it was great to blow a B-Wing up every turn.

This came back to my mind while reading about your first and second matches. Maybe I got it wrong, but it seems to me that you did not concentrate your fire upon one ship before choosing another..? (Correct me, just in case)

So good to see that someone still flies Uncle Rex.

I certainly had issues in some of my games with concentrating fire, but the problem was one of tactical approach more than just a decision to shoot at something else. My general problem was that I kept unintentionally setting up attack runs where my TIE/fos were at Range 3 in the opening exchange and bumped enemy ships or had to disengage in the second exchange, so they had two sub-optimal firings turns, followed by a pretty significant advantage from their dial and having higher PS in the subsequent turns of the game. That opening turn is so critical though, that I had to improve my opening moves to get it right.

The HLC is a better shield breaker, and Soontir is about the only one that you really need to be concerned about. I think at Range 2, the extra shot makes it a wash, I think, and even at Range 4, HLC can have trouble. The combo is better than a TLT shot because Predator is involved. Either with IC or HLC, blocking is the preferred tactic.

For non multi-action Autothruster, Stealth Device aces, the dual shot is awfully good, still.

Soontir will fear the tractor beam and spend anything, just anything to not get hit.

Even more if the tractor beam carrier has crack shot and is flying a tie defender, since it will drop from agility 4 (with stealth device) to agility 2 due to the loss of Stealth Device.

I disagree here. Anything that is really scared of a Tractor Beam is even more scared of being ioned, and Soontir is going to be terribly hard to hit with either Tractor Beam or Ion Cannon.

Soontir will fear the tractor beam and spend anything, just anything to not get hit.

Even more if the tractor beam carrier has crack shot and is flying a tie defender, since it will drop from agility 4 (with stealth device) to agility 2 due to the loss of Stealth Device.

I disagree here. Anything that is really scared of a Tractor Beam is even more scared of being ioned, and Soontir is going to be terribly hard to hit with either Tractor Beam or Ion Cannon.

I haven't played any actual games yet, so I'm speaking theoretical here, but I think it depends.

Vessery w/ crack shot, TIE/D & tractor beam = 37 points. That is one scary dude for Soontir, even with lots of tokens/stealth device. I agree that switching to ion would also be scary, but if you managed to get Soontir in arc with another ship or two, Soontir will most likely die that turn's shooting. If you hit him with ion, he probably won't die that turn (but probably the next turn since you will likely block him and shoot him with no actions). Of course, its also possible that those things won't happen. The tractor beam looks pretty good though. Maybe when we see the full card reveal there will be something to make it less appealing? But Vessery in particular looks like a pretty good candidate...

I just don't think that you'll get Soontir in the arc of that many ships.

I just don't think that you'll get Soontir in the arc of that many ships.

It's probably true that the 2 for 1 on the defender gives an extra shot most lists might not have on Soontir so you'd "only" need it and another ship for 3 shots, something I almost never see a competent Soontir player facing; however, I agree that the tractor beam is less likely to be the winner there as the option simply because it will be the extra attacks that get damage through and, typically, not the first shot. I think it will be nasty, but the same round effect really will require multiple ships to be in arc that turn which is definitely harder to set up than an ion shot and follow-up the following turn. And, if that strategy worked effectively against the Baron, we'd probably be seeing it already.

I think the Ion setup isn't inherently flawed against Soontir, but the squads that could use it were. There just weren't many good Ion Cannon carriers in the game, particularly not ones that could be paired with a miniswarm of excellent blockers. The TIE/D is now the best IC carrier, maybe the only really good one, and no miniswarm is better than a TIE Fighter miniswarm.