After some casual practice with TIE/fos, I was really enjoying what these ships could do for the price. They were tough, exceptionally maneuverable knife fighters, good blockers, and could really do decent damage for the points. The Zeta Squadron Pilots, in particular, had a nice PS cost if you expected to see a lot of PS2 stuff. I paired 3 of them with my go-to Rexler Brath build (Predator, Hull Upgrade, HLC for a cool 50 point ship) and a 2 point initiative bid to try and get the drop on non-VI Corran, Miranda, and Poe, and VI-Brobots. The general idea of the squad was that Rex provided a long-range, good PS hammer, while the Zetas could fight close up to harass. Theoretically, against low PS beef squads, everybody shooting and acting afterwards helped generate PS kills and avoid close-range shots. Against aces, the Zetas would block and set up close-range shots while Rex would hang back and cast his wide HLC arc. Dealing with the Zetas or Rex would require a different set of tactics, so hopefully one element would be able to get its damage through. I’ll also say that the TLT Stresshog has been on my radar even before Mr. Heaver used it as part of his 3^rd world championship squad, and some thought was put into dealing with that. I watched several rounds of Worlds where an ace would be taken out of the fight by the long-range Stresshog, and I didn’t want any part of that. The Zetas clear stress easily, and even if they get a lot of stress piled on, they’re only 16 points, so it’s acceptable to spend a few points clearing stress or just trying to block. The Defender doesn’t clear stress that well, but a Predator powered HLC is dangerous even with a stack of stress higher than the ship. It can also, obviously, still turn around while stressed, so I don’t have to worry about it being taken out of the fight, and it’s action-less damage is greater than a 3-attack ship with a Focus. That’s the idea, anyway. So I took this list to a modest, 3-round Swiss tournament (no cut) to see how it did in the wild. Here are some general impressions from my 3 games.

Game 1:

Gold Squadron Pilot, TLT, BTL-A4, R3-A2

Blue Squadron Pilot, E2 mod, Tactician

Blue Squadron Pilot, E2 mod, Tactician

2 Bandit Squadron Pilots

Lots of beef, lots of stress. If my theory is sound, however, I should be able to do something about this squad. He sets up in a corner, I spread my ships out to attack through the asteroids to try and force him to turn in to break up his formation. My approach is okay, but not great. I have a nice opening turn of combat where I get a mostly uncontested shot on a Z-95 that almost dies, but then I lose coherency in my attack and have too many guns pointed too many directions. The opposing player does a good job of not selling out with the stresshog, he usually did just one stress, enough to prevent a ship from pulling a red maneuver, but also making sure that his Y-wing wouldn’t be completely out of the fight for a long time. I bail out with the Defender, but still take some hits and stress, but after the K-turn he’s at the edges of the extended fight in the asteroids, hammering whatever gets in his way. The Zetas run around tailing individual ships and slowly grinding them down. When time is called, I have the Defender and a Zeta, he’s got the Stresshog and a Blue. I killed 48, he killed 32. It’s a full victory for me, but MOV isn’t strong. I think both of us were a little frustrated about how we played. He thought he had the stresshog out of the game for too long, I didn’t like how I often failed to set up focus fired shots. At the same time, neither of us made many bonehead moves, which is why not too much died. I think a couple more turns would have had me finish the second Blue, but it didn’t feel like either of us was playing slowly. I’ll have to try and polish up my decision making for these ships for the future. This game definitely did illustrate something about how I need to attack a PS2 jousting block. I was unconsciously attacking with my Zetas like I was with the Defender. The Defender wants to start with long range shots, but there’s really no reason to try to get those with the TIE fighters, their long-range firepower is quite bad. They need to rush in to be close. At the same time, they can’t bull rush into a joust because they are too easily blocked by PS 2 stuff, and those close-range shots would tear them apart for little gain. This is something for me to work on.

Game 2:

Farlander with FCS, PTL, and some other stuff

2 Blue Squadron Pilots with FCS

Z-95 with Ion Pulse Missile

This is another pretty beefy list. We set up 2 groups of three obstacles, my 3 big rocks in my upper right-middle and his 3 big debris fields in my lower left. He sets up in a block on the upper left, and again I attack through the asteroid field to try and break up his formation, although Rex is a bit towards the left to try and either flank or let my Zetas flank. In general, the same plan as the first game works, but like before, I don’t do great on the initial merge, failing to get good combined shots with the Zetas. Just at the end of the mid-game, I lose Rex while getting 7 out of 8 green dice turning up blank (the travails of a Defender, it happens), and for a moment it’s two Zetas vs 2 FCS Blues and Farlander. The Zetas finish off Farlander the same turn, though, and the Blues are pretty stressed from taking red moves through debris fields to get stuff in arc. The Zetas proceed to hound down the Blues, finishing one off and Barrel Rolling out of arc to prevent them from getting any shots for the rest of the game. The Target Lock option on the TIE/fo action bar really was great here, as on turns I knew I wouldn’t be shot I’d take the TL, and either use it or bank it for later. It is a definite offensive improvement over the stock TIE/ln. The PS3 bid really made a big difference here, as it let the 16 point Zetas operate without fear of the PS2 Blues in the end game. The main problem was that I still wasn’t doing damage quickly enough, and there was a Blue left on the table as time was called. I killed 76, he killed 66. Modified victory. Clearly I need to work on the early game with this squad, but the late game has been pretty decent (against optimal opponents, admittedly).

Game 3:

Soontir, standard loadout

Howlrunner, Crack Shot

3x Black Squadron Pilots, Crack Shot

I goofed on the asteroid placement on this game. It was too far on one side, when it should have been in the middle. Consequently, he set up his mini-swarm on the opposite side of the rocks, making it pretty difficult for me to draw him in. I tried anyway, and it meant I was way out of position with one of my Zetas on the initial merge. I lost one right off the bat (although it did burn some Crack Shots), and did little damage with my squad in return, but after that his miniswarm was still faced toward the asteroid field, and Soontir, having been scared off by Rex (or having strategically repositioned after effectively decoying) was not in a position to fight for a couple rounds. His swarm had to turn away from the rocks, then K-turn, giving Rex a couple un-opposed shots on the swarm from a flank, dropping Howlrunner. I then K-turned behind the swarm and over a few turns finished off two more Black Squadron Pilots. This is something this Rexlar build does. Once a bunch of ships K-turn, he can just eat them up with little risk to himself thanks to white-K turns and the Focused attacks or Barrel Rolls they allow. Soontir came back, though, but after Rex soaked a couple attacks from the Baron it was two damaged TIE/fos and a damaged Rex vs a damaged Soontir Fel. He was strategically redeploying when time was called. I felt my chances were good, but you never know with Soontir. I killed 65, he killed 16. My biggest margin of victory, but it actually felt like the closest game against my worst matchup. Again I had a bad merge, but the Zetas functioned admirably as Soontir herders, while Rex K-turned and Barrel Rolled his way through the mini-swarm.

I ended up with the 3^rd best overall score in a group of around 24 people, so clearly no one was really getting many one-sided battles that day. I spent a little time wondering how the list might change to shore up my weaknesses in focus firing, and considered downgrading two Zetas to Epsilons and upgrading one to Zeta Ace, but I don’t think I’m ready to do this yet. I need to just work out my opening movement tactics to coordinate the first turn better. In the mid-game scrum, having my three knife-fighters with the same PS was a huge advantage, and in the late-game PS 3 was huge. The PS 3 bid will obviously be situational, but I think PS 2 is going to be a thing for a while. I’ll stick with the squad for a little while longer, it feels good, I just need to just work out my opening movement tactics to coordinate the first combat turn better.

Thanks for reading. If anyone has any thoughts, especially about how to attack a PS2 block with short-range PS3 ships, I’d love to hear them.

Great read, and it's inspired me to bring Rexlar Brath back out and try a similar list.

It seems like the counter to PS2 blocks might be to drop one of the Zetas down to an Epsilon and do your own blocking, though I'm not sure what you do with the leftover point (go shield instead of hull on Brath?). I also worry that cuts down on early firepower against the same list you're trying to counter with the Zetas.

I'd like to get another crack at it before switching up pilot skills, but that might be an eventual solution.

Why rexlar over vessery?

Why rexlar over vessery?

I find PS8 to be a pretty good PS bid right now. I also like that Predator is every turn and takes no coordination to work. I think Vessery is solid, but I like Rex better.

So, Rex mainly for his PS bid? I have been having great luck with Vessery with VI. I know it takes setup, and you mentioned that, but with 3 TIE FOs you should have enough locks to go around.

One last thing, I am wondering as to the Hull Upgrade over something like Engine or even TIE Mk.II.

So, Rex mainly for his PS bid? I have been having great luck with Vessery with VI. I know it takes setup, and you mentioned that, but with 3 TIE FOs you should have enough locks to go around.

One last thing, I am wondering as to the Hull Upgrade over something like Engine or even TIE Mk.II.

That setup and coordination required with Vessery, though, isn't insignificant. With Brath, playing against some builds, you can send the FOs in to try and mess/delay with one enemy element and Brath to deal with another. With Pred as opposed to VI he's still got inherent modifiers on his own if your Ties are down, which is usually what you want in an endgame (if you are losing any ships). Vessery hits very hard when attached to FOs but it does come at a cost and that is that your FOs still want to focus if enemy guns are on them, even though the TL is fantastic to have as an option. I think that both can work, but now having played both, I really like the fact that Brath allows the entire list more flexibility both individually and as a whole.

I think hull upgrade vs. engine vs. mk2 is about playstyle as well as meta. I'll say that I've played several games with Brath with hull upgrade before mk2 and it was significant for me in two ways. There were games it came into play directly (it was my last hull) and I've also seen people decide not to shoot at him because of that extra hull since there are other easier options. I thought I'd switch to mk2 and PTL when mk2 came out, but I haven't and on other ships where I thought I'd use it more, I also haven't needed it.

AlexW has most of my reasons correct, but I'll elaborate a little bit. Vessery with VI is really nice on paper compared to Rex with Predator. Assuming Vessery's ability works most of the time, they both get re-rolls (but Vessery gets to re-roll more dice) and they're both PS8. Vessery is a good 4 points cheaper, too. With three TIE/fos, you'd expect Vessery's ability to activate most of the time, as well, as you've got a lot of Target Locks running around to help him.

Here's a list of that make Vessery more difficult than what's on paper, though:

1.) The first turn: Your low PS FOs are much less likely to have TLs against higher PS targets, so Vessery isn't getting the free TL on the opening exchange. This means that opposing targets can be a little more aggressive, or it might mean that your first target might live just a little bit longer. I'm a big fan of early firepower, so I dislike this.

2.) The furball. When ships have joined and you've got TIE/fos barrel rolling and S-looping all over the place to block and/or get shots, you're less likely to have a supporting ship, with an action, with a target in the same arc as Vessery (so the TL isn't wasted).

3.) At lower PS, you telegraph your punches. If you want to concentrate fire on something, it's all well and good if you TL with everyone on the main target, but this does let anyone between PS4 and PS8 (with initiative) to know who Vessery is gunning for. If you split up TLs to mask his target before he moves, you're splitting fire or using actions inefficiently.

4.) Your TLs can be PS-killed. If you've lose the TIE holding a TL on someone before Vessery fires, it goes away and he can't use it anymore.

5.) If you get the kill with Vessery, your TL is wasted. That FO can no longer attack with an action.

6.) The end game, once the FOs are dead.

This isn't to say Vessery isn't great. He's extremely useful chewing on a hard to kill ship where you can Target Lock it with someone, and just leave that token in play for a while. This works really well for high PS TLs like Vader or a high PS FCS, because it leaves the TL in play for Vessery to use on the opening turn. In the multi-ship engagement, Rex with Predator is a lot nastier, killing things earlier and letting your FOs be more flexible in their clean-up and blocking role. Even in a two-ship meta, Rex has his own tools. It's one of the few situations his pilot ability goes from "occasionally used" to "cold sweat inducing".

Regarding Engine vs Hull, I've rarely come across times where I really wanted Engine. HLC Defenders want to be at long range. If I'm fighting a higher PS ship, it becomes less as an arc dodger, if I'm fighting a lower PS ship, I'd rather use the action to try and kill the ship rather than arc dodge (I am not an interceptor pilot). An HLC Defender's offense is as good as any ship in the game, and better than most, I never want to give it up to avoid attacks (although I will Barrel Roll if I can keep guns on a target). My gut response is to bear down and gun for the biggest threat. Give Rex a Focus and dare other pilots to use their tokens to boost their attacks, because I'm perfectly willing to take an extra hit to slap 4 hits on someone (the luxury of 7 hits points behind 3 AGI). Consequently, I don't care as much for Mk2 engines. If I'm dropping this much investment in this level of offense 3 points to give me that 7th hit point is pretty dang good. Even in this newly emerging (maybe) stress meta, with so many things tossing multiple stress a turn, I'd rather just soak it and be good while stressed than hope I can shed it as I get it.

I am completely blown away! This is easily the best analysis of Rexler Brath I have seen in my life! Excellent work Biophysical!!! I especially enjoyed your analysis of Vessery, I have never been able to really explain it well and you have done an amazing job!

I have one question for you: have you tried lone wolf in place of predator? It really messes with your deployment and you have to worry about when to have it active and when not to but the defensive boost is also quite amazing! Do you think that for competitive play predator is the better choice for Rex + Tie/FO or would you say it is more a matter of play style?

Thanks for the kind words. Lone Wolf is pretty much the best EPT for a TIE Defender, IF you have an expectation of being able to use it. With 3 additional ships, all who fight at close range, Lone Wolf's triggering condition is tough to activate for most of the game. I tried it for a couple games in variants of this list, but didn't really get as much out of it as I'd hoped. The ships just don't really fly together in a way that makes Lone Wolf reliable. For me, at least, I have trouble visualizing a way to fly that squad that doesn't have the Defender in close proximity to the FOs a good portion of the time. Predator is a **** fine card on its own, of course, it's not a consolation prize. Getting the extra die re-roll at PS2 and being able to re-roll eyes is quite handy.

Wow, Biophysical, excellent. I am floored. I think I am going to shamelessly copy your list and take it for a spin to see how I like it over the Vessery list I have been running: Vess (HLC, Hull, VI) and 3 Omega Squadron Pilots with Crack Shot. So far I haven't had a problem grabbing TLs or spreading them around, and Crack Shot has been invaluable, as it usually is.

That Omega-Crack list is exactly what I'd run if I ran Vessery instead. Except I still don't own a Khiraxz, so no Crack Shots.

If it's working for you, I don't know that Predator Rex will necessarily do any better, although my list does give you a 2 point Initiative bid, which is pretty meaningful these days.

Wow, Biophysical, excellent. I am floored. I think I am going to shamelessly copy your list and take it for a spin to see how I like it over the Vessery list I have been running: Vess (HLC, Hull, VI) and 3 Omega Squadron Pilots with Crack Shot. So far I haven't had a problem grabbing TLs or spreading them around, and Crack Shot has been invaluable, as it usually is.

The amount of times I've rolled 1 hit/blank and 3 eyeballs with Predator Rexler, while sitting on a Focus, in arc of 1 or more enemy ships... has made me seriously consider changing to PTL and MK II.

Vessery on the other hand, his EPT is more or less free (as in, use whatever you want), as he just needs that lock.

YMMV.

You know, I spend that Focus almost every time. I've got the spare hit points on Rex, and I hate not doing damage "just in case". I figure that a ship that goes down one turn earlier (even if the ship doeant die this round) saves me from taking damage just as well as blocking damage with a Focus. It's not an Interceptor, you have some flexibility in defense. Once it gets to even numbers, most ships will have a very difficult time winning against Rex, even if he's damaged.

The amount of times I've rolled 1 hit/blank and 3 eyeballs with Predator Rexler, while sitting on a Focus, in arc of 1 or more enemy ships... has made me seriously consider changing to PTL and MK II.

Vessery on the other hand, his EPT is more or less free (as in, use whatever you want), as he just needs that lock.

YMMV.

I probably spend the focus whether it's Vess or Rex there. Defensively, against a couple of guns, the focus likely saves me from one damage.

I tried Biophysical's list yesterday twice:

• In the first game, I was up against x4 T-70 X-Wings, all at pilot skill 2. Predator and Tie/FOs being pilot skill 3 were both amazing! Win
• In the second game, I went up against BBXX-70 all at pilot skill 4. This shut down both the second re-roll from predator and the pilot skill advantage of the Tie/FOs. On top of that, I was so worried with Rexler getting focused down by the enemy list that I ended up taking Rex out of the fight for 4 turns. Loss

Thanks again to Biophysical and Taiowaa (Ode to Joy post) on making and testing such a fun list and coming up with new ways to use Tie Defenders!

Jousting PS4 lists can cause problems, you do have the blocking advantage in that game. You can push the Zetas up to block and take close range shots while the Defender hangs back. The goal is to take away actions on the initial exchange to help keep Rex from taking too much damage.

You can also try and flank, but my guess is the other squad will pretty much always try to focus on Rex. You can take advantage of this by attacking through asteroids. This helps break up the formation and gives you a big defensive advantage for a turn or two.

Some great stuff in here and thanks for the report. Have you ever tried a budget build with vessery? I'm considering bringing something like vess- lone wolf, mangler cannon and on paper it seems appealing but I haven't ran it yet.

I have a real hard time putting anything but HLC on my Defenders. It just fits how I fight with them so well. 7 pints is a lot, but it's worth it completely to me.

I will run Ion Canons on generics, as I find the control useful, but like Bio, will only run HLCs on either named pilot. Their abilites both get more benefit the more dice rolled. I would want a pilot like Maarek in a Defender befor I equipped Mangler Canons. That said, if you are short on points, the Mangler will at least prevent bonus green dice at range three, and crits can win games. I just do not think it synergizes best with the name pilots.

I have seen ion cannons be surprisingly effective on generics which is kinda what led me to theory hammer with the mangler. The HLC remains my weapon of choice however a 'mini rex' economy type package seemed to have some potential vs anything with AGI 0-2, based mostly on crit results though. Hmm maybe I should be messing with ion cannons as an alternative. They would bea nice fit with deathrain which is my current pet project.

So far, I have always run the named Defenders fully upgraded (with or without a missile). However, I have been considering running something like the following squad:

Rexler Brath (37)

Predator (3)

Black Squadron Pilot (14)

Crack Shot (1)

Black Squadron Pilot (14)

Crack Shot (1)

Black Squadron Pilot (14)

Crack Shot (1)

Black Squadron Pilot (14)

Crack Shot (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Great write up Bio as per usual. Amazing perspective behind your thoughts and of course your experience to back up the list is amazing to read. Glad you're still representing the TIE Defenders in some way. Keep it up!

Greatest topic ever. More love for Tie Defender is always welcome.