I've been messing around with this list a while an was wondering if I could get people's takes on which variant they think looks better (and any other input people would like to give)

V1

Vader

X/1

ATC

Squad leader

2 x

Shadow

ACD

Intel agent

FCS

V2

Same Vader

2 x

sigma

ACD

FCS

Recon spec

V3

Same Vader

2x

sigma

ACD

Intel agent

Sensor jammer

The basis of the list is that the phantoms do the lifting whilst Vader supports. He can hand out PS9 barrel rolls to help the phantoms arc dodge like aces, trigger a PS9 cloak if you end up in a bad spot or even just throw on a evade for extra defence.

I've had no problems vs TLT with all versions, shooting first and good manoueverbity to get in range 1 helps tremendously. I like the PS 5 phantoms for out bidding those people outbidding TLT's, but my biggest struggle is vs aces lists and the 4 points spent on the OS bid do not help in that Match up whereas the added defence from recon spec or sensor jammer really does.

And and all input welcome

I don't think the Sigmas will do well with ACD. Even the Shadows might not.

You definitly can improve your ace matchup by giving Vader VI. Squad Leader restricts you to flying close together, VI makes you go after any ace and gives you the freedom to split or group up any way you want.

I find I get my money's worth out of ACD solely through the repositional aspects of the cloak action. Any defensive boost is purely a bonus.

Squad leader is kinda required to make the list function unfortunately. Vader is never tied to either phantom, but can pull in and out of the other as required to support. Range 1-2 actually gives pretty great coverage, and the phantoms decloaks from ACD helps with the range issue a lot too.

There's a lot to be said for being able to block with your decloaks and your moves, then being able to barrel roll out of base to base at PS9 and 5 dice the ship who bumped you

I've run this list at a tournament before going 3-2. Every game was a roller coaster ride!

Vader

Decoy

Title

ATC

EU

2x sigma

ACD

Recon spec

Decoy allows more freedom than swarm tactics so it gave the list a bit more space to use its movement shenanigans. It really suffers against things like fat turrets and aggressors (which were the two games I lost).

However!

If fat turrets and aggressors are its weakness it becomes a great template for escalation as those shops rarely feature. I went 4-1 and had a blast running:

60 points

2 X sigma

ACD

90

2 X sigma

ACD

Vader

Decoy

Title

ATC

120

2 X sigma

ACD

Recon spec

Vader

Decoy

Title

ATC

EU

Dark curse

150

As 120 but including

Carnor Jax

PTL

Autothrusters

Stealth device

I went 4-1 (we played 60 twice). The phantoms were superb due to the popularity of other players spamming low PS ships into their list. They also excelled in finding the range one holes of TLTs.

I find I get my money's worth out of ACD solely through the repositional aspects of the cloak action. Any defensive boost is purely a bonus.

Squad leader is kinda required to make the list function unfortunately. Vader is never tied to either phantom, but can pull in and out of the other as required to support. Range 1-2 actually gives pretty great coverage, and the phantoms decloaks from ACD helps with the range issue a lot too.

There's a lot to be said for being able to block with your decloaks and your moves, then being able to barrel roll out of base to base at PS9 and 5 dice the ship who bumped you

That is a good point about ACD. Squad Leader however i fail to see as pivotal to your success. Vader is so much more than a support ship. He can destroy other aces so well with VI.

I find I get my money's worth out of ACD solely through the repositional aspects of the cloak action. Any defensive boost is purely a bonus.

Squad leader is kinda required to make the list function unfortunately. Vader is never tied to either phantom, but can pull in and out of the other as required to support. Range 1-2 actually gives pretty great coverage, and the phantoms decloaks from ACD helps with the range issue a lot too.

There's a lot to be said for being able to block with your decloaks and your moves, then being able to barrel roll out of base to base at PS9 and 5 dice the ship who bumped you

That is a good point about ACD. Squad Leader however i fail to see as pivotal to your success. Vader is so much more than a support ship. He can destroy other aces so well with VI.

Vader can destroy ships just fine. VI doesn't really enable his firepower, although it does give you a little easier time vs. other high PS aces. So really, any Elite card can work fine on him since with his 2 action economy, he always has options for different situations (need firepower? TL + focus. Need tank? Focus + evade. Need to dodge arcs? Barrel/boost).

Having said that, I was also going to suggest decoy on Vader. The nice thing about it is that he doesn't need to shoot first. In fact, with ATC, sometimes letting your other ships shoot ahead of Vader helps him land crits on juicy hull as the other ships take off shields.

Here's a list that I faced yesterday, and it was quite effective with the decoy shenanigans:

Vader w/ decoy, x-1, ATC & engine = 36

Turr w/ push the limit, royal guard, autos & hull = 33

Sigma w/ intel agent & ACD = 30

99

Both Turr and Sigma like to get to PS9, so even if one dies, you still get value out of the card, and Vader doesn't mind letting either of them shoot ahead of him. Sigma can block if needed or fire first and cloak before any shots come at him. Alternatively Turr can do his shoot then scoot shenanigans at PS9 (and can still push the limit afterwards, so has the best of both worlds, so to speak). The list is very hard to fly though and takes quite a bit of practice. Asteroid placement is key of course (I'd say you want some in the middle, but not too dense or you limit decloak options). Also getting the approach right can be tricky because Sigma wants to be in the lead and Vader back to avoid initial attention, but not too far back (range 1-2 on decoy does help though).

An alternative to get 2 phantoms (similar to Vargas' list above):

Vader w/ decoy, x-1, ATC & engine = 36

2 sigmas w/ intel agents, FCS & ACD = 32 x 2

100

Vargas went with recspec, which helps action economy, but doesn't leave you any tools to roast big ships. Intel + FCS give you that. FCS is great as a firepower boost against large-based ships, and with intel agents, you can easily block them with one Sigma, then pump them full of damage and crits with your remaining 2 ships. Once FCS is on, they can't mitigate all of the incoming damage, no matter what they are (and they cannot escape you because intel agents allow you to make adjustments to keep arc).

You can also do the Echo + VI Vader trick:

Echo w/ decoy, FCS, rebel captive & ACD = 41

Vader w/ VI, x-1, ATC & Engine = 35

76

PS 11 echo means he always gets his cloak first. You could go with recspec instead, but he's pretty arc-dodgy, so doesn't always need 2 tokens (plus FCS takes care of offense, so you can usually save your token for defense if a shot is incoming). With rebel captive, he really punishes certain ships for shooting at him (other phantoms, any large-based ship, any push the limit user, etc).

The last 24 points can go into whatever you feel most comfortable with. 2 Academies can block very well (especially anyone stressed from shooting at Echo). A shuttle can help (although sadly no doom shuttle). Intel agent + enhanced scopes is not a bad idea, or FCS or even just a Fleet Officer for added action economy some of the time (without room for advanced sensors though, that's not the most efficient option). You could even run Mauler Mithel with VI + shield upgrade as backup Pilot Skill booster in case Vader bites it (with the last 2 points you could save for initiative or throw s-thread tracers on Vader when it comes out, since it doesn't spend any tokens to fire).

Darth Vader (32)

TIE Advanced (29), TIE/x1 (0), Swarm Tactics (2), Advanced Targeting Computer (5)

“Whisper” (37)
TIE Phantom (32), Veteran Instincts (1), Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Sigma Squadron Pilot (29)
TIE Phantom (25), Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

My own take on it but with the phantoms firing at PS9 with ACD. You're at 98 for initiative bid or you could slap 2 intelligence agents.