R1H4 and I have been blowing up a chat group the IFF guys share with Wave 2 list building theory for the last couple months and it's really striking to me how well the different unit types (large ships, medium/small, anti-squadron squadrons, bombers, etc) force difficult listing decisions.

If you haven't been paying attention, I've been in love with Rogue Bombers (particularly the firespray) since Sullust, and have been writing lists with a focus on them. However, buying 130-ish worth of firesprays has left the ship portion of my list unsatisfactory in my opinion. So I'm stuck in this feedback loop of drawing down on my firespray horde so I can make the ship side of the list stronger; then looking at the list and realizing I need more firesprays and therefore stripping down the ship portion of the list.

R1H4 and I are driving each other crazy with the list parries and ripostes. Now accurately we're making everyone else in the channel lose their minds. Ultimately , I'm really encouraged by this "struggle" because it means there isn't a "right" answer, which keeps all the listing chat lively.

I love Armada.

I have been list building for the upcoming vassal tournament and been having the same issues

I already changed my posted list 3 times and intend to change it again...

Yeah, my list prep for Wave 2 is all over the place. Strengths and weaknesses in any approach, there's a lot to work with and we'll be seeing good variety on the table with all the new options available.

It never stops.

I'm glad my phone doesn't log how many hours I spend in an app or I'd be ashamed, I'm sure.

My phone isnt a phone anymore.

Its a pocket S.W.A.F.T machine.

What armada app do you use?

I like Battlescribe for listing.

But yeah, this difficulty is the sign of a great game. I suppose it is easier in some ways to keep balance with fewer units, special rules and interactions (i.e. The opposite of 40k) I hope FFG keep this great balance going forward.

http://armadawarlords.hivelabs.solutions/. this is an amazing free builder.

This is one of the strongest part of the game. Someone in our group will come up with a list and we'll have no idea how to counter...until we figure it out and the game totally changes again.

At first (with basically the starter set) it was that the rebels couldn't do anything to a VSD in wave 1.

Now the options are truly broad. The few Vassal games we've played with rogue and villains has shown that they are really going to be powerful and make rolling the dice with an all ship list much more risky.

I agree. When a wargame has hit a balance where a wide selection of lists and tactics are perfectly viable, and there's still room for innovation, it's hit a sweet spot.

It's a particular shark I feel X-Wing jumped too early, and one other companies *cough* GW *cough* have decided they are going to ignore completely because $$$.

Yeah, there's all kinds of viable options out there. The sheer number of possibilities is glorious.

Nahhhh the game is terrible, 3xISD and Vader, drops mike, outta here.

Knowing that my humour can go over heads, let me 100 percent absolutely clear, this is me at my Sarcastic best. That list is avaerage at best and many can and will do better.

Oh yes, definitely. It's working for me, and one of the reasons why I held off buying more ships until Wave 2 is because it completely punched through the meta with new ships.

I'm having such a fun time right now constructing lists, playing games and blogging about all the new material. Couldn't be happier honestly.

Hmmm...

There's some OTHER starship game I tried to play which frequently corners players so that all viable lists look more or less the same, such that the publisher ultimately had to nerf an entire faction. Do you mean to say that isn't how a well designed game works???

If I got into the game and purchased one of everything up to and including Wave 2 then:

• Would that be balanced?
• Is that an okay place to stop - I don't want another collectible game, I'm already in X-Wing with no end in sight.
• Should I get multiples of anything.

What I'm looking for is a good entry and stopping point that gives good to excellent variety and is good to excellent in balance as well.

What are your thoughts? Also I was thinking of making this it's own thread after Wave 2 has been played a bit.

If I got into the game and purchased one of everything up to and including Wave 2 then:

• Would that be balanced?
• Is that an okay place to stop - I don't want another collectible game, I'm already in X-Wing with no end in sight.
• Should I get multiples of anything.

1. Yes, almost perfectly so. The game seems designed to cater for that kind of player as well as people who buy multiples
2. Perhaps. We have no idea what will come later, but it will probably be incrementally stronger over time. If you want to play with your mates, of course, but don't expect to win Worlds 2018 with a wave 1/2 setup.
3. If you like. VSD and Neb-B are the best choices because of the good cards, AFmk2 because it's the best ship. In wave 2 perhaps the MC30 because of the good cards, perhaps the raider if you want more small imperial ships.

Nahhhh the game is terrible, 3xISD and Vader, drops mike, outta here.

Knowing that my humour can go over heads, let me 100 percent absolutely clear, this is me at my Sarcastic best. That list is avaerage at best and many can and will do better.

I know you are being sarcastic but me and my buddy are going to see how well it does but he is throwing Motti on there to make it worse. I was thinking of running something like this.

9x B-Wing Squadron (126 pts)

The real concundrum for me is trying to fit the new huge ships into lists, because while the game has increased by 100 points, the two new huge ships are over 100 points each, so you can easily be at 400 points while having less ships than you did at 300.

For me, I think if I'm going squadron heavy, I need to have smaller, cheaper ships.

or if I'm going to use an MC-80 or ISD, I need to be lighter on squadrons.

Either way, both sides have a 40-ish point ship now to provide filler.

I got Wave 2 on Saturday (was 10% off everything so Yay!) and I'm finding it tricky to get the ISD and to a lesser degree the MC-80 into lists.

They're both great ships, but they're also very expensive with the cheapest ship still being over 100 points, which in a way removes the whole 100 point bump.

Right now I'm working on 2 lists, a ISD and 2 VSD's list with some fighters and a Frigate list, MC-80, Akbar, MC-30, and 2 Neb's. Trying to balance out upgrades, fighters and the like.

Not sure how good the ISD/2 VSD list will be, but it looks freaking great on the table.

The MC-80 is such a beast. I've read about it, but actually having it really makes that sink in. In my first game I was able to throw 20 dice at a VSD in one turn, which needless to say destroyed it utterly. It was a bit of a perfect storm but that kind of firepower is just amazing.

don't expect to win Worlds 2018 with a wave 1/2 setup.

You underestimate my power!

I wouldn't be surprised at all if something from Wave 1/2 played a crucial role in 2018, so long as FFG stays on the ball. A wargame is really working when the meta doesn't win & something no one thought of pulls out a stellar victory. (or blows up a few victories, whatever the case may be).

Nahhhh the game is terrible, 3xISD and Vader, drops mike, outta here.

Knowing that my humour can go over heads, let me 100 percent absolutely clear, this is me at my Sarcastic best. That list is avaerage at best and many can and will do better.

I know you are being sarcastic but me and my buddy are going to see how well it does but he is throwing Motti on there to make it worse. I was thinking of running something like this....

I would be inclined to try Ackbar and Gunnery teams, given that I don't think the Boosted Comms will be a great help as you are as fast and as maneuverable as his fleet.

Now I could say something like give up now, you can't win. But ultimately I see this one going to the better player on the day.

I am not a big fan of Motti, he adds 3 hull to the ISD, but a commander that would post up 4+ extra damage in a game per ship would end up being a better choice. Perhaps the decision point is passivity over aggression. I am a fan of aggression perhaps, killing your opponents ships is my best form of damage reduction.

Nahhhh the game is terrible, 3xISD and Vader, drops mike, outta here.

Knowing that my humour can go over heads, let me 100 percent absolutely clear, this is me at my Sarcastic best. That list is avaerage at best and many can and will do better.

I know you are being sarcastic but me and my buddy are going to see how well it does but he is throwing Motti on there to make it worse. I was thinking of running something like this....

I would be inclined to try Ackbar and Gunnery teams, given that I don't think the Boosted Comms will be a great help as you are as fast and as maneuverable as his fleet.

Now I could say something like give up now, you can't win. But ultimately I see this one going to the better player on the day.

I am not a big fan of Motti, he adds 3 hull to the ISD, but a commander that would post up 4+ extra damage in a game per ship would end up being a better choice. Perhaps the decision point is passivity over aggression. I am a fan of aggression perhaps, killing your opponents ships is my best form of damage reduction.

I continue to find Motti the least inspirational commander in the Imperial stable.

By the time my ISD has been damaged to the point that it only needs three damage, it's pretty much dead, and dealing that extra three damage isn't difficult.

Sure, it might pull you out in a pinch every now and again, but it strikes me as one of those "make up for poor play" cards rather than a "work into a viable strategy" cards.

I continue to find Motti the least inspirational commander in the Imperial stable.

By the time my ISD has been damaged to the point that it only needs three damage, it's pretty much dead, and dealing that extra three damage isn't difficult.

Sure, it might pull you out in a pinch every now and again, but it strikes me as one of those "make up for poor play" cards rather than a "work into a viable strategy" cards.

Yeah I thought this too, but I look at it like this. If you're VSD or ISD goes down to 2/3 health, but hasn't activated yet... you get a whole extra turn of shooting and moving, possibly dealing that extra damage you need, or moving out of range, or repairing enough shields, or commanding those starfighters... etc etc. If you're first player having that ship JUST survive a round can prove to be devastating, being able to activate it first etc

Situationally, sometimes surviving can prove to be more effective.

But there is a good chance that the extra turn of shooting is made at a ship that would have been dead had you picked another commander.

I got Wave 2 on Saturday (was 10% off everything so Yay!) and I'm finding it tricky to get the ISD and to a lesser degree the MC-80 into lists.

They're both great ships, but they're also very expensive with the cheapest ship still being over 100 points, which in a way removes the whole 100 point bump.

...

Not sure how good the ISD/2 VSD list will be, but it looks freaking great on the table.

See in my case, the Imperial is exactly the ship I've been waiting and preparing for as an Imperial player. It is all the capabilities of the VSD expanded into a "modern" fighting ship to compete with (and defeat) all the advantages held by the Rebel side of the game. Ever since winning one at Sullust I've been driving an ISD-II with a pair of VSD-II escorts and win a majority of my games, never losing the Star Destroyer (though frequently sacrificing the VSDs...).

Here's a question for everyone: would you say the game has more variety of lists and flexibility than X-Wing did at this point in its life? I seem to recall TIE Swarms being the thing and Y-Wings already set as being ion carriers by this time, forcing Ys and TIEX1s into decline. There is no ship in Armada that is perceived as being underpowered by comparison.