Oh and the answer in NO

*is

[...]. So, I guess what i'm saying is that it's all a matter of perspective.

TL;DR: Whether XI7s are "worth their cost" or not is a subjective matter that relies on experience.

I will agree and disagree with this. When one says 'subjective' or 'perspective' it suggests that one means the subjective perspective of a single person. I don't agree with that; I'd say that it's intersubjective. It depends on the comparative value that at least two players place on the utility of the card in question.

The value of XI7s will rise and fall depending on how useful they are in the meta in question. Saying that they are costed correctly or incorrectly indicates an absolute. I agree with CartmanTuttle that the value of the XI7s is not so fixed. In a meta with a lot of Advanced Projectors floating around as well as ships trying to deal out a ton of damage, they're pretty useful, and therefore valuable. That's certainly the meta that my community has been in for the past few months. (I finally broke down and bought a Neb-B, even though I only play Empire.) But when the meta shifts away from that, XI7s will reduce in value.

Get ready for the age of Ackbar. These are dark days we live in, Imperial brethren.

Not so my friend, for their biggest ship can't take Gunnery team while ours can. and we still have screed to guarantee crits for us. Sure they can be great outputting the two damage, but with Screed handing overload pulse to ships and Avenger in existence, we are the only faction that can perform attacks where the defender cannot use anything. Screed also guarantees NK-7s to hit so before long, the Rebels will have no tokens to defend themselves with...

While we still out-shoot them out of the front of our biggest vessel.

....anyway, I don't feel the overwhelming power that people feel is said to come out of the XI7s. When I'm hit with one in my Star Destroyers I shrug and just move the damage. So long as I have my brace I'm not worried until I lose my last shield. Then I typically have an engineering handy, or at least more than enough shields. I've also used XI7s in lists only to find there are no ships for me to shoot at that the damage would actually work (firing at CR-90s at long range, they usually evade).

I fear Intell officers a lot more than I fear XI7s honestly.

I disagree with the OP. While an ISD2 with prior-edition-Advanced Projectors would have been amazing, XI-7 doesn't break the game. Cancelling redirects ... well ... how much were you originally redirecting anyhow, now that AP was nerfed?

I'm going out of my way to make lists that don't care about XI-7. Hey we needed love for Nebs anyhow, right?

If a card is going to completely shut down another card AND still be relevant in other situations it should cost more than the card it shuts down. How bout that.

That was the reason why they interacted differently at first. I'm pretty sure they changed it because Advanced Projectors was too good if it basically shut down XI7s. Considering that rebels generally get more shields, shields are cheaper to repair, and only rebels can take Advanced Projectors (except for one variant of one Imperial ship, and the most expensive ship in the game).

I think that the interaction between the two cards is perfectly fine.

The XI7's interaction with Advanced Projectors meant that you needed to be pushing 5 damage into a target after defense tokens were spent in order to put 2 damage on the hull zone you were attacking.

While that increases the rate of survival for the ship it also meant that in situations where lots of damage was being dealt (wave 2), that there was far less shields in the following turns.

I think they are aggresively costed. While they don't do anything against two different ships, they severely nerf two defense tokens on three different ships, and one on three more ships. On more delicate ships like the Glad or Corvette getting the most out of your shields is really important. And even if they are only letting you sneak in a point to the hull here or there, that can be huge. A good crit can really cause a ships problems, especially when you are playing Dodonna.

No.

This has been another Short Answers to Questions.

Yes.

This has been another Short Answers to Questions.

A short Answer would be 1 word and only 1 word with no following sentence explaining how it was a short answer to a question

this has been another pointing out of mistakes people (for once not me) make in there posts

:D

Oh and the answer in NO

Wrong.

There is a difference between an answer and additional commentary. The existence of the second does not alter the first.

Get ready for the age of Ackbar. These are dark days we live in, Imperial brethren.

Not so my friend, for their biggest ship can't take Gunnery team while ours can. and we still have screed to guarantee crits for us. Sure they can be great outputting the two damage, but with Screed handing overload pulse to ships and Avenger in existence, we are the only faction that can perform attacks where the defender cannot use anything. Screed also guarantees NK-7s to hit so before long, the Rebels will have no tokens to defend themselves with...

While we still out-shoot them out of the front of our biggest vessel.

....anyway, I don't feel the overwhelming power that people feel is said to come out of the XI7s. When I'm hit with one in my Star Destroyers I shrug and just move the damage. So long as I have my brace I'm not worried until I lose my last shield. Then I typically have an engineering handy, or at least more than enough shields. I've also used XI7s in lists only to find there are no ships for me to shoot at that the damage would actually work (firing at CR-90s at long range, they usually evade).

I fear Intell officers a lot more than I fear XI7s honestly.

So I read this a lot about Intel Officer but it isn't used a lot in my group. Is the idea to kill the brace on enemy ships right way?

What's changed with Advanced Projectors?

So I read this a lot about Intel Officer but it isn't used a lot in my group. Is the idea to kill the brace on enemy ships right way?

Kill whatever you think is important for a subsequent attack.

What's changed with Advanced Projectors?

XI-7s only allow you to redirect a Single Point.

Advanced Projectors, originally, FAQ'd, let you distribute a single point to each Hull Zone.

Now it is just One Point to a Single Hull Zone (although with APs, it does not have to be an adjacent zone).

What's changed with Advanced Projectors?

XI-7s only allow you to redirect a Single Point.

Advanced Projectors, originally, FAQ'd, let you distribute a single point to each Hull Zone.

Now it is just One Point to a Single Hull Zone (although with APs, it does not have to be an adjacent zone).

Ooh, that's a big change!

What's changed with Advanced Projectors?

XI-7s only allow you to redirect a Single Point.

Advanced Projectors, originally, FAQ'd, let you distribute a single point to each Hull Zone.

Now it is just One Point to a Single Hull Zone (although with APs, it does not have to be an adjacent zone).

Ooh, that's a big change!

Yup. You needed 5 damage after a brace to make it worthwhile to take XI7 Turbolasers, now you need 3. Big change.

So you have a card that is overpowered because it stops the triple-whale advanced projector build from being overpowered?

Get ready for the age of Ackbar. These are dark days we live in, Imperial brethren.

While we still out-shoot them out of the front of our biggest vessel.

Fine, but don't come crying to me when your biggest vessel melts under the combined firepower of four CR-90s sporting Enhanced Armaments and Ackbarring to turn them into assault frigates that can easily flank you, evade one of your long range dice, and always take an accuracy from Home One for free.

Seriously, it's brutal.

I think people are overestimating the hull strength of the Imperial. Sure, it's tough, but it's really not THAT tough. I anticipate a lot of "OMG MY ISD BLEW UP" posts in the coming weeks.

So you have a card that is overpowered because it stops the triple-whale advanced projector build from being overpowered?

A build that was never overpowered really. It was just something that people had not yet figured out how to counter.

Mikael had beaten my whales on several occasions and never needed the use of Xi7's.

Get ready for the age of Ackbar. These are dark days we live in, Imperial brethren.

While we still out-shoot them out of the front of our biggest vessel.

Fine, but don't come crying to me when your biggest vessel melts under the combined firepower of four CR-90s sporting Enhanced Armaments and Ackbarring to turn them into assault frigates that can easily flank you, evade one of your long range dice, and always take an accuracy from Home One for free.

Seriously, it's brutal.

I think people are overestimating the hull strength of the Imperial. Sure, it's tough, but it's really not THAT tough. I anticipate a lot of "OMG MY ISD BLEW UP" posts in the coming weeks.

Not ALWAYS take a free accuracy. They have to be at distance 1-5 to get that benefit. For a ship that may now want to get that close to provide a flanker the benefit.

Hello,

I personally think that X17 turbolasers are undercosted by 2 points (they should cost 8). I plan on playing casual games with them coating 8. What are people's thoughts on this? Are they undercosted, or are they costed correctly?

First of all, it's "XI7" (Ecks-eye-seven), not X-17

That said, I think they're "costed" well. They aren't THAT great, overall. Sure, they make redirect heavy ships like Star Destroyers cry a little bit, but you really need more than one copy to start laying on a whole lot of pain.

If you've got XI7s on one ship, that ship is likely to be focused down, so you have to consider the cost of multiples as the reasonable base cost. I can think of a LOT of comparable upgrades at a similar price point that I'd take over XI7, and in my mind, unless something becomes an "auto include" it can't possibly be undercost of poorly balanced.

Man, just wait until the Heavy Turbolasers start tearing people up. Brace is the most effective token in the game, so there are a lot of folk who will think twice before even TRYING to redirect against HTT.

I dispute that! The correct pronunciation is secks-see-seven.

Get ready for the age of Ackbar. These are dark days we live in, Imperial brethren.

While we still out-shoot them out of the front of our biggest vessel.

Fine, but don't come crying to me when your biggest vessel melts under the combined firepower of four CR-90s sporting Enhanced Armaments and Ackbarring to turn them into assault frigates that can easily flank you, evade one of your long range dice, and always take an accuracy from Home One for free.

Seriously, it's brutal.

I think people are overestimating the hull strength of the Imperial. Sure, it's tough, but it's really not THAT tough. I anticipate a lot of "OMG MY ISD BLEW UP" posts in the coming weeks.

Not ALWAYS take a free accuracy. They have to be at distance 1-5 to get that benefit. For a ship that may now want to get that close to provide a flanker the benefit.

True, making "go for the flagship" the worst strategy you can bring to bear since that will just let those floating turrets negate your brace time and time again.

Home One is one of the big reasons I'm never putting anything but ECM onto the ISD-II.

So you have a card that is overpowered because it stops the triple-whale advanced projector build from being overpowered?

Is it overpowered, though?

And I don't think they changed the interaction because of anything related to Wave 1, I'm pretty sure they changed it for Wave 2. The MC80 assault gets two defensive slots, tons of shields, the possibility of Raymus, 2 redirect tokens, and with the ability to transfer shields from other ships to it, and Redundant Shielding (or ECM) I suspect that Advanced Projectors was simply considered too powerful, it was hardly deterred, even by XI7s in the first place.

They're incredibly cost-effective when you're throwing out big damage on ships with redirect, but against others that don't under this category, they're not that great. For example, shooting at Nebs for them is strictly worse than HTTs.

Actually, the neb will likely just chose to brace. Then the HTTs have no effect and are in the same position as XI7.

Nope, because you can't use that evade without triggering the brace lockdown from HTT. Which means that, yes, against Nebs (and Raiders), XI7's are strictly worse than HTTs.

Dig this:

Long/medium range: Neb has evade and brace

vs XI7: can brace and evade without triggering effect

vs HTT: can brace OR evade without triggering, but not both

Long/medium range: advantage HTT

Close range: Neb has only brace

vs XI7: brace only, no effect

vs HTT: brace only, no effect

Close range: no advantage

Against the Neb, HTT is better than XI7 at anything over close range, so he's right: it is strictly better, in that it's not quite completely useless, whereas XI7 is.

By that same reasoning, though, HTTs are completely useless vs. MC30s and CR90s of all types since neither has a brace token. And the Nebulon-B does not have a Defensive Retrofit, so there is no defense against an accuracy result or an Intel Officer targeting that Brace.

So you have a card that is overpowered because it stops the triple-whale advanced projector build from being overpowered?

Is it overpowered, though?

And I don't think they changed the interaction because of anything related to Wave 1, I'm pretty sure they changed it for Wave 2. The MC80 assault gets two defensive slots, tons of shields, the possibility of Raymus, 2 redirect tokens, and with the ability to transfer shields from other ships to it, and Redundant Shielding (or ECM) I suspect that Advanced Projectors was simply considered too powerful, it was hardly deterred, even by XI7s in the first place.

Yep. Assault Cruiser with APs, Redundant Shields, Engineering Team and Raymus meant that the MC80 was potentially invincible to all but the most ridiculously powerful combos. Regenerating 5 shields per turn plus the ability to absorb even more from nearby ships.

So you have a card that is overpowered because it stops the triple-whale advanced projector build from being overpowered?

Is it overpowered, though?

And I don't think they changed the interaction because of anything related to Wave 1, I'm pretty sure they changed it for Wave 2. The MC80 assault gets two defensive slots, tons of shields, the possibility of Raymus, 2 redirect tokens, and with the ability to transfer shields from other ships to it, and Redundant Shielding (or ECM) I suspect that Advanced Projectors was simply considered too powerful, it was hardly deterred, even by XI7s in the first place.

Yep. Assault Cruiser with APs, Redundant Shields, Engineering Team and Raymus meant that the MC80 was potentially invincible to all but the most ridiculously powerful combos. Regenerating 5 shields per turn plus the ability to absorb even more from nearby ships.

Engineering team adds a point on the use of an engineering command. Combining the use of a token and a dial is considered a single command so you only get 1 point. No you can't use the token and dial separately.

Also the Assault Cruiser you bring up is 140 points with no Commander. . . That is a HUGE target. An VSD and a GSD will kill it and be about the same points.

Engineering Team and Raymus.. too many people mess this one up