That upgrade locks the syck into one role though, which is not what it's all about.

Which upgrade?

I'd like to see the Scyk fix incorporate it's current title. I think MJ has the correct idea of what it _should_ have been (3 points to add 1 hull + the option to take a missile or a torpedo or a cannon).

Also note: the base price on the generics should have been lower by 1 point.

-1 base cost +1 title cost = 0 point change with the title. They just get a free hull.

But without the title they need to be cheaper so you have a reason to ever take them WITHOUT the title, hence the -1 / +1 adjustments.

My House Rules are largely all "technical" fixes that try to stay as close to the original intent as possible. There are certainly other solutions.

That upgrade locks the syck into one role though, which is not what it's all about.

Which upgrade?

Title adding the cannon slot, with a 2 point deduction for 2 points...

What about a title that allows you to remove a attack, evade die, or your shield token and boost one of your other stats?

So you could have a three attack but you would only have two defense die, or loose your shield token.

Or you could regen your one shield token at the cost of one evade, or attack die, ECT.

I'd like to see the Scyk fix incorporate it's current title. I think MJ has the correct idea of what it _should_ have been (3 points to add 1 hull + the option to take a missile or a torpedo or a cannon).

Also note: the base price on the generics should have been lower by 1 point.

-1 base cost +1 title cost = 0 point change with the title. They just get a free hull.

But without the title they need to be cheaper so you have a reason to ever take them WITHOUT the title, hence the -1 / +1 adjustments.

My House Rules are largely all "technical" fixes that try to stay as close to the original intent as possible. There are certainly other solutions.

So it sounds like any official fix would need to offer 3 points of value for that 2 point title?

So my idea with using the cannon slot to add a hull should cost 0 points instead of 1 point. But the ones that let you 2 extra munitions tokens on a missile or torpedo would be costed appropriately at zero points.

And probably another title as well. I don't think that at this point they'd be able to make the Scyk work properly without a title of some sort. But I do like the idea of it being the first small ship with more than one title.

Maybe a freebie title that lets it get a second use out of any 1 shot EPTs. That would make the Tansari point Veterans interestingly different from (say) Green Squadron Pilots.

I'm going back to the multi-title idea:

Armored Scyk, 0pt- increase your hull value by 1. You must equip the heavy Scyk title and pay it's cost.

Military Scyk, 1pt- you must equip the heavy Scyk title and pay its cost. If you choose a cannon, reduce its cost by 2. If you choose missile or torpedo place an extra munitions token on that upgrade during deployment.

Medium Scyk, 0pt- you may equip 2 modifications.

Light Scyk, 1pt- your upgrade bar gains the illicit upgrade. Your action Bar gains Boost.

Junkyard Scyk, -2pt- reduce your sheild value by 1. Increase your hull value by 1. You must take any other Scyk title and pay its cost.

Double titles that allow for customization and increase niche roles. Flavorful and unique to the

----------------

I also had an idea for a defensive ability that worked off of BR and requires you to BR to gain the benefit. Thought it was fun but posters here thought it was better as an EPT or pilot ability. I think it would be great for the Scyk.

Agreed. Related to this, Twin Laser Turret is killing "vanilla" generic ships (no wave 7 upgrades attached) because the TLT Y-wing's jousting efficiency is so high (for a turret) that it's very easy for it to have a net effectiveness that is in excess of the previous best jousting ships in the game. TLT should have been 7 points. With TLT at 6 points the Y-wings are now the new best jousters. About 50% of all points spent in the Top 32 at Worlds were on generics (just like last year), but the difference is that "vanilla" generics only made up 12.5% of points spent.

Right, it's not only a better option than anything in that point range, it kills a lot of generics in that range fairly easily too. For example, I have a scum list I want to try with two Black Sun Ks, but I am doing so knowing that a pair of TLT Ys would be significantly better for the same cost. Either way, that's probably getting too far afield since TLTs are another topic, but it goes with the Scyk, too that, it's both weak against them and once an HLC is added on, it's close enough in cost that finding another point for a TLT Y is significantly better.

the prime idea was that
Joust>Turret>Arcdodge>Joist

but first the turrets started PS8+ boosting, then the arcdodgers got autothrusters to cope with turrets...

and then turrets got TLT to DERP jousters.

THE TABLES TURNED

so now it's joust<turret-dodge<Auto-dodgers>jousters

While jousters didn't get any boost from wave 1 onwards >_>

the prime idea was that

Joust>Turret>Arcdodge>Joist

but first the turrets started PS8+ boosting, then the arcdodgers got autothrusters to cope with turrets...

and then turrets got TLT to DERP jousters.

THE TABLES TURNED

so now it's joust<turret-dodge<Auto-dodgers>jousters

While jousters didn't get any boost from wave 1 onwards >_>

Arc Dodgers were underpowered as a class, but each Jouster is underpowered in its own unique way.

I'm sure this has been hashed out before, but why didn't Scyks get an Illicit slot? The best guess I have is that it would step on the toes of the Z-95 too much, but I don't think that's the case. Sure, you could put Dead Man's Switch on it because they're so frail. That would be fun. But I just can't imagine trying to use Feedback Array with them. At 16 points for 3 uses maximum, that's a hard sell.

But most of all, I'd love the Inertial Dampeners. See, I've been trying to think of a way to mod the Scyk to make it a better sniper. I was thinking up a mod called "Retrotrusters" that would let you "barrel roll" straight back by just putting a 1-straight template in your rear guides and moving backwards. It would be 2 points and could only be equipped if your action bar had the barrel roll icon. But the more I thought about it, the more I thought it would be great just to stand still. And then I remembered Inertial Dampeners. I just wish they had the Illicit slot.

They would also be able to use Glitterstim and in a few months, you'd be able to cloak with them. That would be really fun!

But as of now, they would be way, way too similar to the Kihraxz Fighter. I don't think giving Illicit to the Scyk is an option now that the Kihriaxz is released. In fact, I'm still a bit floored by the similarities between the Kihraxz and the Scyk. They have all the same maneuvers except the Scyks get a 3-Koiogran while the Kihraxz gets a 4-Koiogran. Other than that, the Scyk gets a green 3-straight instead of a white 3-straight. At 20 points, both ships are Pilot Skill 2 with 3 attack dice. The Kihraxz loses one agility but gains 2 hull. At this price range, the Scyk also gets to turn a hit to a crit (because I'm assuming the "Mangler" is equipped). Finally, the Scyk does get more action options including an evade token. I suppose if you can use the evade action thrice and negate a damage each time, you've come out ahead of the Kihraxz in terms of durability. However, you've lost your offensive output by opting out of target lock or focus.

Man, now that I'm looking at it, these guys really have a great action spread; it's too bad you can't get more use out of them. Anyone try Tansarii Point Veterans with Push the Limit? The lack of a green turn hurts them a bit, but I feel like that would make a powerful ship. But it seems like such a point-sink. Twenty-six points for a "Mangler" version? Twenty-nine for Heavy Laser Cannon? It seems like too many points.

Slapping an Illicit slot on it would help. The PS 2 generic is costed fine, maybe one point overcosted but I don't think that's the issue.

The issue isn't really that they're fragile glass cannons, it's that the meta right now is really hostile to fragile glass cannons. They'd see more use if the meta turned back to wave 3-golden age type lists. An HLC on a cheap one for 23 points, 26 with hull or stealth device is priced fine and is on par with the generic TIE Phantom, and the generic phantom is balanced pretty well.

But if your autowin 58 point Super Dash can simply delete one a turn or you have to deal with someone's focused Poe rolling focus evade every single roll there is nothing you can do.

Hmm. I wonder how 5 "Mangler" Cannon Scyks would do against the 7- or 8-TIE swarm. For that matter, I wonder how 4 Heavy Laser Cannon Scyks would do. You could give Stealth Device to 2 of them or upgrade 2 to Tansarii Point Veterans with Crack Shot.

I once had 2 Tansarii Point Veterans + HLC + Predator ....

both got one-shotted even before they could do any speakable damage ... even with Predator - I got some unlucky rolls, though.

It was one of the 'fun games' where your opponent gets all the fun.

I'm sure this has been hashed out before, but why didn't Scyks get an Illicit slot? The best guess I have is that it would step on the toes of the Z-95 too much, but I don't think that's the case. Sure, you could put Dead Man's Switch on it because they're so frail. That would be fun. But I just can't imagine trying to use Feedback Array with them. At 16 points for 3 uses maximum, that's a hard sell.

But most of all, I'd love the Inertial Dampeners. See, I've been trying to think of a way to mod the Scyk to make it a better sniper. I was thinking up a mod called "Retrotrusters" that would let you "barrel roll" straight back by just putting a 1-straight template in your rear guides and moving backwards. It would be 2 points and could only be equipped if your action bar had the barrel roll icon. But the more I thought about it, the more I thought it would be great just to stand still. And then I remembered Inertial Dampeners. I just wish they had the Illicit slot.

They would also be able to use Glitterstim and in a few months, you'd be able to cloak with them. That would be really fun!

But as of now, they would be way, way too similar to the Kihraxz Fighter. I don't think giving Illicit to the Scyk is an option now that the Kihriaxz is released. In fact, I'm still a bit floored by the similarities between the Kihraxz and the Scyk. They have all the same maneuvers except the Scyks get a 3-Koiogran while the Kihraxz gets a 4-Koiogran. Other than that, the Scyk gets a green 3-straight instead of a white 3-straight. At 20 points, both ships are Pilot Skill 2 with 3 attack dice. The Kihraxz loses one agility but gains 2 hull. At this price range, the Scyk also gets to turn a hit to a crit (because I'm assuming the "Mangler" is equipped). Finally, the Scyk does get more action options including an evade token. I suppose if you can use the evade action thrice and negate a damage each time, you've come out ahead of the Kihraxz in terms of durability. However, you've lost your offensive output by opting out of target lock or focus.

I think you are quite right here. Wave 6 Scyk not getting Illicit in order to not infringe on both the Z95 and the then coming Wave 7 Khiraxz. And now with IA on T65 Xwings, the Xwings outracing Khiraxzes, FFG (or we) should be careful - otherwise the Khiraxz will lose and be the new almost-never-fielded ship.

As said before titles are the way to go.

Why not Titel "Doorstop Scyk" You may equip Inertial Dampener.

Hmm. I wonder how 5 "Mangler" Cannon Scyks would do against the 7- or 8-TIE swarm. For that matter, I wonder how 4 Heavy Laser Cannon Scyks would do. You could give Stealth Device to 2 of them or upgrade 2 to Tansarii Point Veterans with Crack Shot.

Showing up with 4 cartel spacers on an x wing night is the same as going to an event dressed as a carton of blue milk, while your friends do Darth Vader and grand moff Tarkin. You will get some attention, but it will probably be short-lived, and not the kind you generally want.

Hmm. I wonder how 5 "Mangler" Cannon Scyks would do against the 7- or 8-TIE swarm. For that matter, I wonder how 4 Heavy Laser Cannon Scyks would do. You could give Stealth Device to 2 of them or upgrade 2 to Tansarii Point Veterans with Crack Shot.

Showing up with 4 cartel spacers on an x wing night is the same as going to an event dressed as a carton of blue milk, while your friends do Darth Vader and grand moff Tarkin. You will get some attention, but it will probably be short-lived, and not the kind you generally want.

But... but... it's Aunt Beru brand...

Hmm. I wonder how 5 "Mangler" Cannon Scyks would do against the 7- or 8-TIE swarm. For that matter, I wonder how 4 Heavy Laser Cannon Scyks would do. You could give Stealth Device to 2 of them or upgrade 2 to Tansarii Point Veterans with Crack Shot.

Showing up with 4 cartel spacers on an x wing night is the same as going to an event dressed as a carton of blue milk, while your friends do Darth Vader and grand moff Tarkin. You will get some attention, but it will probably be short-lived, and not the kind you generally want.

Sure, but I still wonder how the 4 Scyks would do against the 8 TIEs. I'm not saying I'm going to randomly show up to game night with that list. I only have 2 Scyks anyway.

I'm hoping blue milk comes from banthas or some herd animal and not jawas. Disgusting creatures.

This thread is really making me want to appreciate the little ugly Scyk. The Scyk and K-axe are the last two small base expansions i don't have, so I guess it's time to get em. Yay, flatchet cannons!

I'm hoping blue milk comes from banthas or some herd animal and not jawas. Disgusting creatures.

This thread is really making me want to appreciate the little ugly Scyk. The Scyk and K-axe are the last two small base expansions i don't have, so I guess it's time to get em. Yay, flatchet cannons!

I've only taken Flechette Cannons once and had the misfortune of facing Soontir Fel, meaning I could never add any stress since he was always stressed from Push the Limit or Koiogran Turns. I need to try them again.

I once had 2 Tansarii Point Veterans + HLC + Predator ....

both got one-shotted even before they could do any speakable damage ... even with Predator - I got some unlucky rolls, though.

It was one of the 'fun games' where your opponent gets all the fun.

Had the same problem running 2 of them with Ion Cannon poped before I could get them behind a stress bot

Ok so 11 pages of reading and this seams to be what people want

1. Point reduction (not possible so please lets get off this topic)
2. More greens
3. Boost
4. More hit points
5. Illicit
6. Stop complaining

so here are my new Ideas I hope will fill all these needs

M3-A only Modification

"new and improved power supply" (needs better star wars sounding name )

Your ship gains 1 shield, you may treat 2 (hard) mauvers as green. Instead of a barrel roll you may perform a boost action.

1pt

Tansarii Point Veteran (17)
Predator (3)
Heavy Laser Cannon (7)
"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) (2)

New and Improved Power supply (1)

Total 30pts

and for Illicit why not an EPT

"Shifty Pilot"

you may equip 1 Illicit upgrade to you ship.

0pts

I like the mod but Shifty Pilot is the best I can think of for Illicit without it being a title. but if you want it as a title when they one day do an aces pack new title could come out that includes cannon + Illicit but lose the mod same cost

what do you all think?

Woohoo! The Scyk will totally be fixed by all the cool stuff in the ghost expansion.

Thermal Detonators!!! Oh, that's right, they didn't give them access to THAT slot.

New Cheap turret!!! Oh, they only get expensive cannons.

Awesome Crew!!! Nevermind...

Useful defensive abilities and an EPT at mid range... Dang it. Ezra only flies Attack Shuttles.

Ok so 11 pages of reading and this seams to be what people want

• Point reduction (not possible so please lets get off this topic)
• More greens
• Boost
• More hit points
• Illicit
• Stop complaining

so here are my new Ideas I hope will fill all these needs

M3-A only Modification

"new and improved power supply" (needs better star wars sounding name )

Your ship gains 1 shield, you may treat 2 (hard) mauvers as green. Instead of a barrel roll you may perform a boost action.

1pt

Tansarii Point Veteran (17)

Predator (3)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) (2)

New and Improved Power supply (1)

Total 30pts

and for Illicit why not an EPT

"Shifty Pilot"

you may equip 1 Illicit upgrade to you ship.

0pts

I like the mod but Shifty Pilot is the best I can think of for Illicit without it being a title. but if you want it as a title when they one day do an aces pack new title could come out that includes cannon + Illicit but lose the mod same cost

what do you all think?

I think some people will cry foul and say the Scyk is too good. I think others will complain about theme (as the OP pointed out, Scyks shouldn't have boost according to the lore). Personally, I don't know that any of this will make a difference except the shield. The boost is nice and all, but the Scyks already have tons of actions available that they can barely make use of. I think part of the apparent lack of power for the Scyk comes from comparing it to other ships with insane action economy or great raw stats.

Does this mean I've found something new to complain about?

Like a swarm ship the Scyk could use some more pilots. Like a mid ps range generic with EPT and about 4 more uniques with synergistic abilities and/or abilities that work with the slots gained by the title. Like gaining a focus when firing a torp or missile or something or discarding a cannon upgrade to fire it out of arc.

Ok so 11 pages of reading and this seams to be what people want

1. Point reduction (not possible so please lets get off this topic)
2. More greens
3. Boost
4. More hit points
5. Illicit
6. Stop complaining

so here are my new Ideas I hope will fill all these needs

M3-A only Modification

"new and improved power supply" (needs better star wars sounding name )

Your ship gains 1 shield, you may treat 2 (hard) mauvers as green. Instead of a barrel roll you may perform a boost action.

1pt

Tansarii Point Veteran (17)

Predator (3)

Heavy Laser Cannon (7)

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) (2)

New and Improved Power supply (1)

Total 30pts

and for Illicit why not an EPT

"Shifty Pilot"

you may equip 1 Illicit upgrade to you ship.

0pts

I like the mod but Shifty Pilot is the best I can think of for Illicit without it being a title. but if you want it as a title when they one day do an aces pack new title could come out that includes cannon + Illicit but lose the mod same cost

what do you all think?

I think there was also complaint about the title costing Missile, Torpedo and Cannon upgrades as the same

That is a minor issue I have with the M3-A as well. I think the title is meant to make the Scyk configurable to your preferred combat setup, but I can't say I've seen anyone pay the 2 point tax for anything other than Cannons. The result is the title isn't really doing what it's meant to, at least what I think it is meant to anyway.

Admittedly there aren't many cases where the single shot missiles and torpedoes are taken at the moment anyway, so even if there was a lower cost to the missile or torpedo option over the cannon on the Scyk it'd still be a hard sell.