My quick thoughts:

1. I think Slaved Turrets is actually the best upgrade for Salvation.
2. The reason I'm not thrilled about TRC with the others (especially Yavaris) is that people will be gunning for them and you want all the defense you can get to make sure they maximize their lifespan (already too short).
3. Sometimes, just not spending the points on that ship is a superior option as well.
4. You sacrifice a single evade to use this, but a single evade also cancels that die. So you paid to waste your evade, and they did it for free?

I also think TRC is superior for CR90s vs. Nebulon Bs.

I also think that TRCs are superior to XI7s on the CR90.

I also think that TRCs are superior to XI7s on the CR90.

I think it's a toss-up between TRC and Slaved Turrets on Salvation. TRC benefits Salvation less than every single other ship.

I'd like to be slightly more specific and say that Slaved Turrets is better on Salvation Support Refit. On an Escort Frigate I'd prefer TRC, which does not let that two-die A/S go to waste.

I also think that TRCs are superior to XI7s on the CR90.

Unquestionably. The value of XI7's is proportional to the amount of damage being dealt behind them. A ship throwing 2.25 average damage per shot is getting virtually no utility out of them (applicable to both CR90A and non-Salv Nebs), whereas TRC gives you +1.5-1.8 average damage on those shots.

I think it's a toss-up between TRC and Slaved Turrets on Salvation. TRC benefits Salvation less than every single other ship.

Agreed completely. The objective of the TRC CR90 is two-fold: To inflict enough papercuts and setup for the rest of the fleet to push through bigger damage, or to find a naked hull zone after a ship has already exhausted its defenses and just pour in guaranteed damage.

I got two MC30s today, and proceeded to use their TLRCs on a CR90 and a Salvation. They're just too pricey once I've given them APTs and Ordinance Experts to slap anything else on them.

My quick thoughts:

• I think Slaved Turrets is actually the best upgrade for Salvation.
• The reason I'm not thrilled about TRC with the others (especially Yavaris) is that people will be gunning for them and you want all the defense you can get to make sure they maximize their lifespan (already too short).
• Sometimes, just not spending the points on that ship is a superior option as well.
• You sacrifice a single evade to use this, but a single evade also cancels that die. So you paid to waste your evade, and they did it for free?

I also think TRC is superior for CR90s vs. Nebulon Bs.

I'm not sure I get the gist of your Evade & TRC argument here. My NebB throws out three Red dice usually getting a blank die result, which the TRC transforms into a double hit (or Crit for a double hit with Salvation).

Without the TRC, I average two damage and a blank die that can be reduced to a single damage with an Evade. With the TRC, I average the same two damage and a blank that increases two four damage, and then gets reduced back to two damage with the Evade. With the X17, the Evade reduces it to a single damage that can be moved to another shield with a Token. So I don't get how the Evade makes the X17 better than the TRC. Slaved Turret adds a single die which might add damage to your result total, but has a better chance of being a miss than a double hit, so I would rather take the guaranteed +1 or +2 damage of the TRC over the potential of anything from zero to two damage increase.

And I would definitely rather sacrifice an Evade over never firing out of a second arc, but that's just my preference.

Slaved turrets always feels like I should be getting points not spending them.

^2

Support Frigate Salvation is literally the only single ship I can imagine wanting it on. If it was optional like Ackbar (if you choose to take only one attack this turn, add 1 red die), I could see it on any Nebulon, and... Yeah, that's really about it. Maybe a VSD? But that's not how it works, so it's trash except on one single titled ship, whose value is already pretty dubious imo.

The thing about TRC on a CR-90a is that it's just 51 points, the same as a support Neb-b, and it can do very high, very reliable damage. The more TRC CR-90s you have in your list the more likely you are to have evade tokens to use (your opponent can only shoot so many times) and the fewer defensive tokens your opponent will have available. This makes each additional TRC CR-90 you add to the list more valuable than the last.

At long range, double arcing, they will put out slightly more average damage than a double-arcing ISD-2 (front+side) with Concentrate fire or an Akbar boosted assault frigate with enhanced armaments and concentrate fire. At medium range, they hit with the same weight as a double-arcing VSD-2. Imagine being able to trigger ACM twice, at long range, with all the damage going onto a single facing.

Evade hits them harder than most, but your opponent will only have so many evades.

Go all the way and 7 TRC CR-90's will put out a maximum of 28 guaranteed raw damage a turn just from the TRC dice, not counting the other dice the CR-90's can shoot. Furthermore, having a shot obscured doesn't hurt that much, as you can drop one die, and still get the double-hit through.

Even without going full swarm, TRC will probably be an auto-take on CR-90a's, the average damage increase is simply enormous compared to the point cost. Also look to see any future double evade ships having to be balanced around the fact TRC now exists.

One thing not mentioned in this thread is that TRC's themselves are less effective when firing at ships with Evades - as so much of the shot's output is based on a single dice, cancelling that single dice in turn is very effective.

This thread is really making me wish I'd ordered 2 MC30s now.

This thread is really making me wish I'd ordered 2 MC30s now.

I ordered 3, love those ships and love TRC.

I want to try 3 MC-30's with ACM and 2 CR-90's with TRC and Mon Mothma. IT still leave 58 points for either another CR-90, some upgrades or some squadrons

I'd like to be slightly more specific and say that Slaved Turrets is better on Salvation Support Refit. On an Escort Frigate I'd prefer TRC, which does not let that two-die A/S go to waste.

I'd like to be slightly more specific and say that Slaved Turrets is better on Salvation Support Refit. On an Escort Frigate I'd prefer TRC, which does not let that two-die A/S go to waste.

The Anti-squadron dice rarely goes to waste in my meta. When combined with a support refit's single dice you can lay out very meaningful amounts of AA. It is how I won my tournament with 5 Nebulon-B's. Three of which were Escorts. Though we were not using Wave 2 things.

I'd like to be slightly more specific and say that Slaved Turrets is better on Salvation Support Refit. On an Escort Frigate I'd prefer TRC, which does not let that two-die A/S go to waste.

The Anti-squadron dice rarely goes to waste in my meta. When combined with a support refit's single dice you can lay out very meaningful amounts of AA. It is how I won my tournament with 5 Nebulon-B's. Three of which were Escorts. Though we were not using Wave 2 things.

Sure, though that doesn't address what I said. My point was that it makes little sense to splurge on the Escort Frigate and then equip it with Slaved Turrets, which pretty much prevents you from using the improved A/S you paid extra for. That's not at all to say that single-die A/S cannot be effective.

Fair enough

My quick thoughts:

1. I think Slaved Turrets is actually the best upgrade for Salvation.
2. The reason I'm not thrilled about TRC with the others (especially Yavaris) is that people will be gunning for them and you want all the defense you can get to make sure they maximize their lifespan (already too short).
3. Sometimes, just not spending the points on that ship is a superior option as well.
4. You sacrifice a single evade to use this, but a single evade also cancels that die. So you paid to waste your evade, and they did it for free?

I also think TRC is superior for CR90s vs. Nebulon Bs.

hit the nail on the head with #3

the Escort Neb, at least, is basically perfect taken naked (+1 Yavaris, ofc)

I personally still cannot fathom taking a support Neb over a cr-90 or an Escort expect for Salvation, and for 51 points the TLRC cr-90a appeals to me far more than the Support TLRC Neb

must say, though, that Raymus remains the best upgrade for Salvation (Except when taking Garm)

Trc and jaine kight is a good option.

But that a ISD and two raiders lost to two corvettes seem unbelievable. The ISD should of been in range of the vettes and finished then off in a shot or two

My quick thoughts:

• I think Slaved Turrets is actually the best upgrade for Salvation.
• The reason I'm not thrilled about TRC with the others (especially Yavaris) is that people will be gunning for them and you want all the defense you can get to make sure they maximize their lifespan (already too short).
• Sometimes, just not spending the points on that ship is a superior option as well.
• You sacrifice a single evade to use this, but a single evade also cancels that die. So you paid to waste your evade, and they did it for free?

I also think TRC is superior for CR90s vs. Nebulon Bs.

hit the nail on the head with #3

the Escort Neb, at least, is basically perfect taken naked (+1 Yavaris, ofc)

I personally still cannot fathom taking a support Neb over a cr-90 or an Escort expect for Salvation, and for 51 points the TLRC cr-90a appeals to me far more than the Support TLRC Neb

must say, though, that Raymus remains the best upgrade for Salvation (Except when taking Garm)

Trc and jaine kight is a good option.

But that a ISD and two raiders lost to two corvettes seem unbelievable. The ISD should of been in range of the vettes and finished then off in a shot or two

The two corvette' didn't single handedly kill 2 Raiders and an ISD. They killed one Raider, did half the other's health, and more than half of the ISD's health.

My MC30 and Assault Frigate did the rest, but the CR90's did more than those other two. I stayed at long range of his ISD and quickly dodged out of his front arc. Same with the raiders. I stayed out of medium range and then since I was second with activation advantage I made the Raiders move into close range were my CR90s opened up then moved away. So maneuvering had a large part in this, but this isn't the only game I've used these two TRC CR90s and in all my games they have done significant work, but they still die like CR90s if you aren't careful.

One thing not mentioned in this thread is that TRC's themselves are less effective when firing at ships with Evades - as so much of the shot's output is based on a single dice, cancelling that single dice in turn is very effective.

I will once again disagree with this idea. If the ship has an Evade and uses it to nullify the die you've altered with TRC, then technically he has negated a die you've modified as you say. But, if the die was a blank before, then that evade would be nullifying another die if you didn't use the TRC, and if you changed a single to a double then it's a die that might have already been nullified before.

Example, my NebB rolls three red dice and gets a Crit & single Hit & Miss, I use my TRC to change the miss to a double Hit, the enemy evades my double Hit, and the end result is two damage with a Crit being delivered. Same example without the TRC, I get the same Crit/Hit/Miss result on three dice, my opponent nullifies the Crit, and I deliver a single damage point without a Crit.

Example two, my NebB rolls three red dice and gets a Crit & a double Hit & single Hit, I change the single to a double Hit with TRC, my enemy removes one double Hit die with Evade, and I deliver three damage and a Crit to him. Or, I don't have the TRC, m opponent Evades the double Hit, and I deliver two damage and a Crit to him.

Now, please explain why the TRC is wasted, given my above examples, because the enemy uses an Evade token? Even if he uses the Evade, I will always be doing at least one more point of damage to him with the TRC in every example I can come up with, over not using the TRC.

By the way, I'm not debating the merits of using Turbolasers over going naked upgrade wise, I'm just debating the merits of the TRC for the NebB.

One thing not mentioned in this thread is that TRC's themselves are less effective when firing at ships with Evades - as so much of the shot's output is based on a single dice, cancelling that single dice in turn is very effective.

I will once again disagree with this idea. If the ship has an Evade and uses it to nullify the die you've altered with TRC, then technically he has negated a die you've modified as you say. But, if the die was a blank before, then that evade would be nullifying another die if you didn't use the TRC, and if you changed a single to a double then it's a die that might have already been nullified before.

Example, my NebB rolls three red dice and gets a Crit & single Hit & Miss, I use my TRC to change the miss to a double Hit, the enemy evades my double Hit, and the end result is two damage with a Crit being delivered. Same example without the TRC, I get the same Crit/Hit/Miss result on three dice, my opponent nullifies the Crit, and I deliver a single damage point without a Crit.

Example two, my NebB rolls three red dice and gets a Crit & a double Hit & single Hit, I change the single to a double Hit with TRC, my enemy removes one double Hit die with Evade, and I deliver three damage and a Crit to him. Or, I don't have the TRC, m opponent Evades the double Hit, and I deliver two damage and a Crit to him.

Now, please explain why the TRC is wasted, given my above examples, because the enemy uses an Evade token? Even if he uses the Evade, I will always be doing at least one more point of damage to him with the TRC in every example I can come up with, over not using the TRC.

By the way, I'm not debating the merits of using Turbolasers over going naked upgrade wise, I'm just debating the merits of the TRC for the NebB.

It seems to me it is Auto-include on a corvette, kinda meh on a neb (only 1 evade) but potentially good depending on list composition

One thing not mentioned in this thread is that TRC's themselves are less effective when firing at ships with Evades - as so much of the shot's output is based on a single dice, cancelling that single dice in turn is very effective.

I will once again disagree with this idea. If the ship has an Evade and uses it to nullify the die you've altered with TRC, then technically he has negated a die you've modified as you say. But, if the die was a blank before, then that evade would be nullifying another die if you didn't use the TRC, and if you changed a single to a double then it's a die that might have already been nullified before.

Example, my NebB rolls three red dice and gets a Crit & single Hit & Miss, I use my TRC to change the miss to a double Hit, the enemy evades my double Hit, and the end result is two damage with a Crit being delivered. Same example without the TRC, I get the same Crit/Hit/Miss result on three dice, my opponent nullifies the Crit, and I deliver a single damage point without a Crit.

Example two, my NebB rolls three red dice and gets a Crit & a double Hit & single Hit, I change the single to a double Hit with TRC, my enemy removes one double Hit die with Evade, and I deliver three damage and a Crit to him. Or, I don't have the TRC, m opponent Evades the double Hit, and I deliver two damage and a Crit to him.

Now, please explain why the TRC is wasted, given my above examples, because the enemy uses an Evade token? Even if he uses the Evade, I will always be doing at least one more point of damage to him with the TRC in every example I can come up with, over not using the TRC.

By the way, I'm not debating the merits of using Turbolasers over going naked upgrade wise, I'm just debating the merits of the TRC for the NebB.

why are you debating the merits of it for a neb?

It seems to me it is Auto-include on a corvette, kinda meh on a neb (only 1 evade) but potentially good depending on list composition

The NebB is a long range sniper, unlike most ships it doesn't get more dice as it gets closer, and the TRC is one way to not only increase but actually insure extra damage at any range for it. How is that "meh?"

Only having a single evade won't matter at long range, as a NebB with TRC at long range pumps out more damage than a VSD or GSD, and that single Evade can't even be counted on if the enemy gets an Accuracy effect.

The argument becomes "take a Turbolaser upgrade or don't", and not so mch "which Turbolaser for the NebB" to me. Those three red dice don't pump out enough damage for the X17 to really shine. Unless you're using the Support variant, the Slaved Turret seems straight out, and even with the Support I would rather take the guaranteed +1 to +2 damage of the TRC over an extra red die. And the other Turbolasers just keep dropping from there to me, an HTT versus other NebB's is about it, but how many times do you run into NebB vs NebB battles anyway? Well, maybe you guys do more often, but I'm The NebB guy in my neighborhood, so not often enough for me to pack them.

Me personally, I run two NebB's in my list, and two NebB's each sporting the TRC is two to four more damage a round of shooting for me. I'm all over that myself, but that's just my opinion on the subject.

One thing not mentioned in this thread is that TRC's themselves are less effective when firing at ships with Evades - as so much of the shot's output is based on a single dice, cancelling that single dice in turn is very effective.

I will once again disagree with this idea. If the ship has an Evade and uses it to nullify the die you've altered with TRC, then technically he has negated a die you've modified as you say. But, if the die was a blank before, then that evade would be nullifying another die if you didn't use the TRC, and if you changed a single to a double then it's a die that might have already been nullified before.

Example, my NebB rolls three red dice and gets a Crit & single Hit & Miss, I use my TRC to change the miss to a double Hit, the enemy evades my double Hit, and the end result is two damage with a Crit being delivered. Same example without the TRC, I get the same Crit/Hit/Miss result on three dice, my opponent nullifies the Crit, and I deliver a single damage point without a Crit.

Example two, my NebB rolls three red dice and gets a Crit & a double Hit & single Hit, I change the single to a double Hit with TRC, my enemy removes one double Hit die with Evade, and I deliver three damage and a Crit to him. Or, I don't have the TRC, m opponent Evades the double Hit, and I deliver two damage and a Crit to him.

Now, please explain why the TRC is wasted, given my above examples, because the enemy uses an Evade token? Even if he uses the Evade, I will always be doing at least one more point of damage to him with the TRC in every example I can come up with, over not using the TRC.

By the way, I'm not debating the merits of using Turbolasers over going naked upgrade wise, I'm just debating the merits of the TRC for the NebB.

why are you debating the merits of it for a neb?

It seems to me it is Auto-include on a corvette, kinda meh on a neb (only 1 evade) but potentially good depending on list composition

The NebB is a long range sniper, unlike most ships it doesn't get more dice as it gets closer, and the TRC is one way to not only increase but actually insure extra damage at any range for it. How is that "meh?"

Only having a single evade won't matter at long range, as a NebB with TRC at long range pumps out more damage than a VSD or GSD, and that single Evade can't even be counted on if the enemy gets an Accuracy effect.

The argument becomes "take a Turbolaser upgrade or don't", and not so mch "which Turbolaser for the NebB" to me. Those three red dice don't pump out enough damage for the X17 to really shine. Unless you're using the Support variant, the Slaved Turret seems straight out, and even with the Support I would rather take the guaranteed +1 to +2 damage of the TRC over an extra red die. And the other Turbolasers just keep dropping from there to me, an HTT versus other NebB's is about it, but how many times do you run into NebB vs NebB battles anyway? Well, maybe you guys do more often, but I'm The NebB guy in my neighborhood, so not often enough for me to pack them.

Me personally, I run two NebB's in my list, and two NebB's each sporting the TRC is two to four more damage a round of shooting for me. I'm all over that myself, but that's just my opinion on the subject.

Trust me I think it's good but just "meh" on the neb but I do agree most other turbolaser upgrades are worse I am just surprised you care about TRC Neb-bs so much